Andrew Bynum at MAX potential

[Al-Haqq]

Wow. I didn't think you would get worked up by a different opinion. There's no need to swear and carry on, and it's clear you have a hard time reading a different opinion, I'm hoping someone more civil can reply because it's clear you're not worth replying to any more.

Lol, not sure why Greg Oden is getting on your nerves so much, but yes, he is the better prospect. If you could draft either Greg Oden or Andrew Bynum, I think it's safe to say Oden would get picked more. I would take Greg Oden hands down.

I was a Kings fan and now I am a Blazers fan according to you ..... FYI I'm neither.

[semi-sentient]

Al-Haqq: You're opinion must be formed on an improper (or lack of) analysis.

Bynum averaged 13.1 PTS, 10.2 REB, and 2.1 BLK in just 28.8 MPG last season. That isn't just over a 12 game stretch, but over 35 games. Keep in mind that everyone here has to base their opinion off of what they have seen from Bynum, which all of us here have. Bynum still has much upside, so I don't think it's unrealistic given what we know that Bynum CAN be a 20+/13+/3+ type player. That doesn't mean that he will, but the potential is there nonetheless, and that is what this thread is about.

Anyway, give Bynum about 36 MPG (25% increase, which he likely won't reach next season) and I think it's safe to say that his stats will rise across the board. Assuming that his stats do increase proportionally with minutes, that would give him 16.4 PTS, 12.8 REB, and 2.6 BLK. Those are the numbers that he would likely put up currently given minutes and health. Now unless you think Bynum's prime has come and gone at the age of 20, it's hard to imagine why we wouldn't improve upon that as he gets more size, strength, and experience.

[semi-sentient]

I'm not a hater. I even said Bynum is a good prospect, but some of you are talking as if he's some type of hall of fame center with averages like 26/13/3.

This thread is about max potential, and anytime you have such a conversation things are open to complete speculation. No one here knows what he will turn into, but based on his progress, work ethic, and having seen him played, I think it's safe to assume that he is no where near being maxed out which is a great thing if you're a Lakers fan.

There's reason to be optimistic about next season but too many Laker fans are assuming he's going to drop 17/12/2 next season.

Yes I know Odom was playing with him that time. There's no way Bynum gets 12 rpg with Pau Gasol next to him.

17/12/2 would be about the best he could do, but I'm personally not banking on it. At best I see him getting around 15/11/2 over the course of a season. Not sure why you're really harping on about rebounds though as Pau isn't a particularly dominant rebounder and Odom will play more on the perimeter. There is no reason to think that Bynum's rebounds will drop as a result of Pau.

He may be a 10ppg / 8rpg player next season - that is my opinion. I think he can be a solid center in the league, but he certainly isn't going to have all-star numbers playing behind Odom, Kobe and Gasol.

Bynum does not play behind Odom, so you can scratch that name off the list. Right now I would say it's Kobe->Gasol->Bynum->Odom as far as options go, and it's very likely that we either move Odom or trade him in the near future. Once that happens then Bynum and Pau will have more rebound/scoring opportunities, assuming we replace Odom with something that we actually need.

[Erik Eleven]

Inflammatory dung-spreading counts as a violation of the RGM rules, Al-Haqq. Stating your opinion as facts for the sake of baiting/stealthing like you just did warrants a warning.

Insults and "shouting" are also violations of the rules, joe.linnen. Bring it back down to normal speaking voice, please, or I'll have to hand out a warning.

And, back-seat modding will bring a warning, too, so think before you reply, both of you. Chill.

Al-Haqq, since you're new here, I'll give you a shot at bettering your piss-poor first appearance. None of that stuff will fly here, just so you know. If you can share your opinion in a respectful manner — taking in account that this is a Lakers forum — you're welcome to stay. If you keep posting ill intended BS, you will be warned and booted.

Back to topic,

EE

[daddyfivestar]

damn skippy.

Since this is Max potential, I'll take the high bid.
25.3 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 2.8 apg

He is 20 years old after all.

[LLcoleJ]

I was a Kings fan and now I am a Blazers fan according to you ..... FYI I'm neither.

Just another in a long line of Celtic trolls. Stating your opinion is one thing. Telling us to " calm down" and you making your "opinions" to be facts is another. You the ladder.

[ronnymac2]

I won't post stats because its totally dependant on teammates, coaching, etc.

i think Bynum can be a really big defensive force in the league, first and foremost. You see the guy, and he has length and height of duncan, with wide shoulders (helps in rebounding), and is athletic, can move well laterally for a big, and has ups. He also seems to know how to use his size pretty well (not even close to duncan's defensive bball iq, but thats just because duncan is an all-time great). He rebounds misses even when he's out of position, and when he is, he's able to catch the ball at its near apex. He seems to be a decent post defender, too.

What I'm trying to say is that he has the talent and the athletic ability and has shown to have half a brain to go with that...if he really works hard and is taught well, he can be a prime-time defensive anchor.

On offensive, he's shown he's a very good, aggressive finisher. He catches the ball well on alley-oops, off the pick-n-roll, and on drop-offs. He goes for dunks aggressively. He hits his free throws, and his foul draw ability has been decent for a young guy. He's got the athletic ability to be a very good offensive rebounder. He runs the floor well, too.

What he needs to work on is post moves and a post game overall. His passing needs work, but he's only 20. He's shown signs of being able to effectively hit cutters and shooters. If he develops into a dominant one-on-one scorer, he'll draw more doubles, so he'll then be able to make more passes and get more assists.

With his size and everything, all he needs is the abiltiy to hit hooks, maybe a lil 13 foot jumper, and post footwork. Learning how to utilize the skyhook really would be great for him. His max potential can be he is a top center in the game (along with what I think oden and dwight will become, and maybe yao, too). He's set up perfectly. He's got a great coach in Phil, an all-time great player in Kobe, and very good team, and he even has another very good big man in gasol on his team that can take pressure off him. AND on top of all that, he's got an-all time top 5 center in Kareem teaching him.

[Throwback24]

19-11-2 is his max pot. imo.

[Erik Eleven]

As long as we win another three rings with Bynum and Kobe, I'll be happy.

There is no ceiling to his potential yet, in my opinion. I haven't sen anything indicating that he'll have a weak spot in his game once he realizes all of his talent (mental and physical). None.

What's more interesting is what his lowest level will be. If he can be our consistently reliable defensive anchor game in and game out, we'll blow teams out — left and right, and regardless of how much Bynum scores.

Having said that, for next season, I think he'll average 17PPG-12RPG-3BPG-2.5APG.

For his career, he might stay around those numbers ^, but he might also blow up on the league and dominate offensively for a good five-six years. 26PPG-12RPG-4BPG doesn't seem too optimistic as a yearly stat at the peak of his career. He could go higher. Like someone said, it depends a lot on the coaching.

Personally, I think we should make him our go-to scoring option already next season. Let him score until the opponents find a way to stop him. I don't think there is a way. Perkins and Howard might both give him a good match, but that's about it, in my opinion. Oden needs to play an NBA game before he can enter the discussion.

[Al-Haqq]

Al-Haqq: You're opinion must be formed on an improper (or lack of) analysis.

Bynum averaged 13.1 PTS, 10.2 REB, and 2.1 BLK in just 28.8 MPG last season.

I know he averaged that over the season. I'm saying that a lot of Laker fans highlight his January averages of 17/12/2 as some type of standard, but that was only over 6-games. That is fact, not opinion.

Assuming that his stats do increase proportionally with minutes, that would give him 16.4 PTS, 12.8 REB, and 2.6 BLK. Those are the numbers that he would likely put up currently given minutes and health.

I guess time will tell about what season averages he has, and I for one do not see him putting 16/13/2. I'm not sure if he can play that many minutes and not get into foul trouble.

Pau isn't a particularly dominant rebounder and Odom will play more on the perimeter. There is no reason to think that Bynum's rebounds will drop as a result of Pau.

I'm sure playing next to Gasol will lead to less rebounds for Bynum. That is my opinion.

If you can share your opinion in a respectful manner — taking in account that this is a Lakers forum — you're welcome to stay. If you keep posting ill intended BS, you will be warned and booted.

I don't think I posted in a rude manner at all, nor are my posts ill intended. Granted my initial post could have been worded better, my subsequent posts are a better representation as to how I post around here.

I was a Kings fan and now I am a Blazers fan according to you ..... FYI I'm neither.

Just another in a long line of Celtic trolls. Stating your opinion is one thing. Telling us to " calm down" and you making your "opinions" to be facts is another. You the ladder.

I'm not a troll.

I have posted factual numbers and averages ... if we're talking about opinions, then yes, some of my numbers in my initial post were opinions as to what he would average - but the whole thread is about opinions as to what he can average, so I'm not doing anything different to anyone else in this thread.




Bynum averaged 8.5 FGA .... and this was with just Odom and Kobe. Now they got a reliable post player in Gasol, who will get more touches of the ball than Bynum, so why do people increase his PPG if there's going to be less shots for him? I don't get it.

Kobe - 20.6 FGA
Bynum - 8.5 FGA * without Gasol
Odom - 10.3 FGA
Gasol - 12.3 FGA

Bynum's FGA may go up very slightly or more likely, remain the same. Could even dip to 7 FGA. I don't see him averaging more than 13ppg.

[LLcoleJ]

I'm not a troll.

I have posted factual numbers and averages ... if we're talking about opinions, then yes, some of my numbers in my initial post were opinions as to what he would average - but the whole thread is about opinions as to what he can average, so I'm not doing anything different to anyone else in this thread.

What you dont get is you are a visitor and when you come here telling people to "calm down" on their opinion as if they are wrong and you are right. That is a troll and the mod team will make that determination, not you.
You are more than welcome to visit and share your opinons - just dont tell us ours are wrong in the process.

Thats nice that you posts various stats too, but thats not what I am addressing here. I am addressing your tone and subsequent talking down to us as we analyze Bynum.

Join the convo respectfully, or not at all.

[Al-Haqq]

I agree my initial post could have been worded better, but let's focus on the discussion from this point onwards. Thank you.

[ronnymac2]

O yea, i forgot to say in my first post in this thread...I usually post on the pc threads and never went here before. I am a laker fan though, and will try to come here more often.

One more thing to add.... To the person that said Bynum should sort of be the number option...I kinda agree, but i don't. I think kobe should still be the number 1 option. I think Bynum needs to continue to learn how to finish and play off of kobe and lamar getting him looks. I'd also like to see bynum develop the kind of inside chemistry that gasol and odom have ito passing.

However, I do think we should run the offense through bynum moreso than last year, and especially when kobe goes out. And especially with a specific lineup that puts many shooters in the game. This way Bynum has enough space to use 1 vs. 1 moves that he needs to develop farther, while also maximizing his ability to operate in the low post with the triangle offense. He can pass out to shooters and find cutters with him as the focus (optimally, a lineup of farmar, sasha, vlad and maybe odom or gasol).

What I expect this year is for bynum to start to be the real defensive force that I talked about him possibly becoming in my first post. It's a lot easier to do that now than what I think he could be on offense. All he needs to do is work hard and get good playing time (and come of this injury well, of course).

[semi-sentient]

I know he averaged that over the season. I'm saying that a lot of Laker fans highlight his January averages of 17/12/2 as some type of standard, but that was only over 6-games. That is fact, not opinion.

I know what his 6 game averages are, but that doesn't really matter. What he did over 35 games in minimal time is important enough to determine how much of an increase he can have given more minutes.

I guess time will tell about what season averages he has, and I for one do not see him putting 16/13/2. I'm not sure if he can play that many minutes and not get into foul trouble.

Yes, that's why I pointed out if he can get those minutes. Health and foul trouble are the key factors, so that's an obvious assumption on my part. Unless he has an foul-plagued career, I don't think it's outside of the realm of reason to think he will eventually get ~35 MPG. As he gets older, he will become more experienced and better conditioned, and those will lead to increased minutes. That's just the way it is.

I'm sure playing next to Gasol will lead to less rebounds for Bynum. That is my opinion.

Let's try this another way. Odom is a better rebounder than Gasol. Bynum averaged double-digit rebounding in limited minutes playing next to Odom. Odom's numbers were down during that time for obvious reasons.

Why would Bynum's rebounding drop off playing next to Gasol? He is not going to pull in more rebounds than Odom playing at PF, and Odom will be more on the perimeter while he plays at SF, so there has to be some kind of reasoning for that opinion.

Anyway, if anything we simply become a better rebounding team as a whole and in the end it doesn't matter who pulls down what. Don't take this as an attempt to jock Bynum. It makes no difference if he gets 3 or 15 as long as we're outrebounding our opponents.

I have posted factual numbers and averages ... if we're talking about opinions, then yes, some of my numbers in my initial post were opinions as to what he would average - but the whole thread is about opinions as to what he can average, so I'm not doing anything different to anyone else in this thread.

Opinions are fine, but backing them with arguments is better.

Bynum averaged 8.5 FGA .... and this was with just Odom and Kobe. Now they got a reliable post player in Gasol, who will get more touches of the ball than Bynum, so why do people increase his PPG if there's going to be less shots for him? I don't get it.

Because most people here are expecting Bynum's minutes to increase. When Bynum was our 2nd option, Odom thrived off of it. Now that Pau is back Bynum will thrive off of him getting a considerable amount of attention. His FG% is already ridiculous, it wouldn't take but 9 FGA for him to get his 15 points assuming he draws a few fouls here and there, which I'm sure he will.

Kobe - 20.6 FGA
Bynum - 8.5 FGA * without Gasol
Odom - 10.3 FGA
Gasol - 12.3 FGA

Bynum's FGA may go up very slightly or more likely, remain the same. Could even dip to 7 FGA. I don't see him averaging more than 13ppg.

Odom's FG attempts will decrease, I can assure you of that. He is not going to be playing out on the perimeter and taking that many shots, or at least I hope not. Pau's will increase, and so will Bynum's.

Kobe I think will tone it down slightly. He has too many weapons to justify being a one man show ala LeBron.

I see it this way:

Kobe - 19.1 FGA
Gasol - 12.8 FGA
Bynum - 8.9 FGA
Odom - 8.8 FGA
Fisher - 7.1 FGA

[ChocolateThundr]

Bynum can at least be a 20/10/3 player. He already is a excellent shot blocker, he grabs balls as if he had only one.

If Boozer can be a 20/10 guy, Bynum can be a 20/10 guy