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Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
NYG wrote:jayjaysee wrote:NYG wrote:
I like the template... who are some guys available like Caruso besides Caruso himself?
Not sure why it wouldn’t be Caruso, I’d pay a big asking price to put him in between Trae and Ingram..
But if he is not available.. I’ll go Thybulle is very available.
Probably lets Atlanta get 21 and Portland clears their tax issues and settles for seconds..but I’ll go;
Thybulle, Ingram, 34 to Atlanta
Capela, Murray to NOP
Liddell and 21 to Portland
Portland tax problems go away and upgrade a draft prospect.
I just have the Bulls likely running it back (incorrectly so) in real life.
The Thybulle version is threadworthy... is there a future 1st NOP could trade instead? The Blazers have a lot of picks in this draft
jayjaysee wrote:NYG wrote:jayjaysee wrote:Top 14 protected for 3 years more likely IMO.
I don’t have the gap between Ingram and Murray very wide at all.
Hawks get:
Brandon Ingram
Matisse Thybulle
Pelicans get:
Dejounte Murray
Clint Capela
Trail Blazers get:
E.J. Liddell
2025 Top 20 Protected New Orleans Pelicans First Round Draft Pick (2026 - Lottery Protected / 2027 - Lottery Protected or becomes 2030 and 2031 2nds)
???
Something like that. I’d rather it with Caruso. And think Portland owes 34 to Atlanta. Thybulle isn’t worth a first.
Atlanta should only do it if Ingram is resigning. Someone else pointed out the CBA allows 20% jumps in extend-and-trades now. Ingram could take a 4yr170ish contract. But even if he just agrees to add 2 years.
Can’t trade a good contract for an expiring one when the talent is so comparable IMO.
tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
Don't see the Hawks landing the 1st pick to just trade away along their second best player to get their own picks back
Donkedave wrote:, the amount of each bonus included in the
first Salary Cap Year of the extended term may increase or.
Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
jayjaysee wrote:Donkedave wrote:jayjaysee wrote:
Something like that. I’d rather it with Caruso. And think Portland owes 34 to Atlanta. Thybulle isn’t worth a first.
Atlanta should only do it if Ingram is resigning. Someone else pointed out the CBA allows 20% jumps in extend-and-trades now. Ingram could take a 4yr170ish contract. But even if he just agrees to add 2 years.
Can’t trade a good contract for an expiring one when the talent is so comparable IMO.
Wonder where they seen that?
This is from the new CBA
4) The following rules apply to Extensions entered into in
connection with a trade pursuant to Section 8(e)(2) below:
(i) For each Salary Cap Year covered by an Extension after the
first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, the
player’s: (A) Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, may
increase or decrease in relation to the previous Salary Cap
Year’s Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, by no
more than five percent (5%) of the Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the extended term of the Contract; and
(B) Regular Salary may increase or decrease in relation to the
previous Salary Cap Year’s Regular Salary by no more than
five percent (5%) of the Regular Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the Contract.
(ii) In the event that the first Salary Cap Year covered by the
extended term of a Contract provides for Incentive
Compensation, the amount of each bonus included in the
first Salary Cap Year of the extended term may increase or
decrease in each subsequent Salary Cap Year by up to five
percent (5%) of the amount of such bonus in the first Salary
Cap Year of the extended term.
Sort of a weird way of responding to someone giving credit to you. But yeah
Art. VIII, Sec. 8(e)(2):
(2) A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract; provided, however, that: (i) no such agreement may be made during the period from the last day of the last Regular Season covered by the Contract (or the last day of any Regular Season that could be the last Regular Season covered by the Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or ETO) through the following June 30; (ii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) prior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than three (3) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed; and (iii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than four (4) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed. The Salary and Unlikely Bonuses that may be provided in the first year of the extended term and annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 7(a)(3)(iii) and Section 5(a)(4) above.
Art. VIII, Sec. 7(a)(3)(iii)(B):
If such Extension is signed on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, then the Extension may, in the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, provide for a Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, of up to the greater of: (A) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Regular Salary in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract; or (B) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for the Salary Cap Year in which the Extension is signed (or, if the Extension provides for any Incentive Compensation in the first Salary Cap Article VII 253 Year covered by the extended term, then one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for such Salary Cap Year less the amount of such Incentive Compensation). In the event that the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term may provide for Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses of up to one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(a)(4) above.
Wolveswin wrote:tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
Don't see the Hawks landing the 1st pick to just trade away along their second best player to get their own picks back
Why? Perfect draft and lotto outcome to do just that. No Wemby to be had at #1. Playing with house money after moving up from #10 to #1.
Franchise changer landing #1 doesn’t mean drafting #1 for Hawks.
In my scenario they still win now trading Murray for Johnson - who is nice age and fit next to Trae using a Murray trade to accomplish. Still drafting #8 (better spot than when they went into lotto night) AND get more draft capital.
tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:tcheco wrote:
Don't see the Hawks landing the 1st pick to just trade away along their second best player to get their own picks back
Why? Perfect draft and lotto outcome to do just that. No Wemby to be had at #1. Playing with house money after moving up from #10 to #1.
Franchise changer landing #1 doesn’t mean drafting #1 for Hawks.
In my scenario they still win now trading Murray for Johnson - who is nice age and fit next to Trae using a Murray trade to accomplish. Still drafting #8 (better spot than when they went into lotto night) AND get more draft capital.
I disagree. Sure this draft is not viewed as one of a time, but the difference from pick 1 and 8 exists.
Johnson is a terrible fit for the Hawks too, zero defense, terrible at everything except scoring(which is also average).
Seems like there's better trades for Murray to land a much better player for the Hawks that alows them to compete. I don't think they can tank even if they get Johnson for Murray either way.
mcfly1204 wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
Wait, what? The Hawks are giving up the better player and the #1 overall pick?
Wolveswin wrote:tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Why? Perfect draft and lotto outcome to do just that. No Wemby to be had at #1. Playing with house money after moving up from #10 to #1.
Franchise changer landing #1 doesn’t mean drafting #1 for Hawks.
In my scenario they still win now trading Murray for Johnson - who is nice age and fit next to Trae using a Murray trade to accomplish. Still drafting #8 (better spot than when they went into lotto night) AND get more draft capital.
I disagree. Sure this draft is not viewed as one of a time, but the difference from pick 1 and 8 exists.
Johnson is a terrible fit for the Hawks too, zero defense, terrible at everything except scoring(which is also average).
Seems like there's better trades for Murray to land a much better player for the Hawks that alows them to compete. I don't think they can tank even if they get Johnson for Murray either way.
Then we will disagree. I like Johnson more than you, and I like Hawks getting control of their future again.
tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:tcheco wrote:
I disagree. Sure this draft is not viewed as one of a time, but the difference from pick 1 and 8 exists.
Johnson is a terrible fit for the Hawks too, zero defense, terrible at everything except scoring(which is also average).
Seems like there's better trades for Murray to land a much better player for the Hawks that alows them to compete. I don't think they can tank even if they get Johnson for Murray either way.
Then we will disagree. I like Johnson more than you, and I like Hawks getting control of their future again.
And that's fine.
I hope Johnson proves me wrong, but I was so disappointed in him. I get that controlling it's future is important, but if Hawks will keep Trae, they should not trade Murray for picks. IF they decide to trade Young, then I'm all for it getting those picks back
BoogieTime wrote:tcheco wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Then we will disagree. I like Johnson more than you, and I like Hawks getting control of their future again.
And that's fine.
I hope Johnson proves me wrong, but I was so disappointed in him. I get that controlling it's future is important, but if Hawks will keep Trae, they should not trade Murray for picks. IF they decide to trade Young, then I'm all for it getting those picks back
Wolveswin original trade made no sense to me. Murray has more value than Johnson in the first place
Wolveswin wrote:mcfly1204 wrote:Wolveswin wrote:Murray + #1
FOR
Johnson + #8
How many Hawks owed picks can Atlanta get in that deal?
This would be amazing for Spurs. Murray to lead the win-now team, and picks #1 and #4 to build long-long term juggernaut around Wemby.
Wemby
Sarr (#1)
Sochan
Vassell
Murray | (Topic? #4)
Wait, what? The Hawks are giving up the better player and the #1 overall pick?
You may want to read it again. I bolded so you don’t miss it again.
mcfly1204 wrote:Wolveswin wrote:mcfly1204 wrote:Wait, what? The Hawks are giving up the better player and the #1 overall pick?
You may want to read it again. I bolded so you don’t miss it again.
No, I got that, it's just such a bizarre premise. Johnson + #8 for Murray feels like it's in the ballpark, but then you're effectively asking what it would take for Atlanta to move the 1st overall pick, with a specific focus on reacquiring their own picks from SA? So to answer that question, all of them?
Euphonetiks wrote:jayjaysee wrote:Donkedave wrote:
Wonder where they seen that?
This is from the new CBA
4) The following rules apply to Extensions entered into in
connection with a trade pursuant to Section 8(e)(2) below:
(i) For each Salary Cap Year covered by an Extension after the
first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, the
player’s: (A) Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, may
increase or decrease in relation to the previous Salary Cap
Year’s Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, by no
more than five percent (5%) of the Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the extended term of the Contract; and
(B) Regular Salary may increase or decrease in relation to the
previous Salary Cap Year’s Regular Salary by no more than
five percent (5%) of the Regular Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the Contract.
(ii) In the event that the first Salary Cap Year covered by the
extended term of a Contract provides for Incentive
Compensation, the amount of each bonus included in the
first Salary Cap Year of the extended term may increase or
decrease in each subsequent Salary Cap Year by up to five
percent (5%) of the amount of such bonus in the first Salary
Cap Year of the extended term.
Sort of a weird way of responding to someone giving credit to you. But yeah
I think they were saying that is not the case. Anyhow, I am the one who pointed out in other threads that under the new CBA rules for extensions that go into effect this offseason, Ingram can get a full max salary in an extend-and-trade for those concerned about the expiring contract. not to say he will absolutely only take that, but just mentioning that there is an easy way for whatever team trades for him to not take on the risk of an expiring.Art. VIII, Sec. 8(e)(2):
(2) A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract; provided, however, that: (i) no such agreement may be made during the period from the last day of the last Regular Season covered by the Contract (or the last day of any Regular Season that could be the last Regular Season covered by the Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or ETO) through the following June 30; (ii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) prior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than three (3) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed; and (iii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than four (4) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed. The Salary and Unlikely Bonuses that may be provided in the first year of the extended term and annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 7(a)(3)(iii) and Section 5(a)(4) above.Art. VIII, Sec. 7(a)(3)(iii)(B):
If such Extension is signed on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, then the Extension may, in the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, provide for a Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, of up to the greater of: (A) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Regular Salary in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract; or (B) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for the Salary Cap Year in which the Extension is signed (or, if the Extension provides for any Incentive Compensation in the first Salary Cap Article VII 253 Year covered by the extended term, then one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for such Salary Cap Year less the amount of such Incentive Compensation). In the event that the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term may provide for Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses of up to one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(a)(4) above.
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