Minnesota - Cavs - OKC

[LightTheBeam]

Another one I like which everyone will hate. I think all 3 teams get better post trade. Can debate what kind of value OKC needs to send Minnesota?

Cavs out: Allen, Garland
Cavs in: KAT, Giddey

Min out: KAT
Min in: Garland, Jaylin Williams

OKC out: Giddey, Jaylin Williams
OKC in: Allen

Cavs break up the 2 non shooting bigs, and add some size in the backcourt. Mobley/KAT is a good pairing, and Giddey covers having the smaller Mitchell in the back court. Better compliments
Giddey - Mitchell - Strus - KAT - Mobley
LeVert - Merrill - Okoro - Niang - Wade

Minnesota saves a chunk of money off the bat, and long term moves away from all the money invested up front. Better fitting team all around.
Garland - Edwards - McDaniels - Naz - Gobert
Conley - NAW - Anderson* - Jaylin

OKC gets some legit size. Still has cap for free agency. Rumored to want Allen
Shai - Dort - Williams - Chet - Allen
Cason - Joe - Wiggins - Dieng

[Colbinii]

I have this as pretty bad for Minnesota.

Conley and Garland are unplayable together, Towns is a significantly better talent than Garland and Jaylin Williams is pretty marginal value.

[kds92]

Interesting idea, but I think Allen has more value and Jaylin Williams has less value

[Colbinii]

Can OP explain why this isn't just Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen?

That deal makes a ton of sense. But the Minnesota part doesn't seem to fit at all.

[LightTheBeam]

I have this as pretty bad for Minnesota.

Conley and Garland are unplayable together, Towns is a significantly better talent than Garland and Jaylin Williams is pretty marginal value.

Conley is going to be 37 by time next season starts. I'd imagine you don't hold up a deal for that, he can be moved to a team who needs a vet pg.

The KAT > Garland part is where it gets tricky. I actually don't think he does, but I know the consensus disagrees with me. That's why in the OP I said debate over what value OKC needs to give Minnesota here. I'd imagine a pick or 2 is in order. Does that change your thoughts?

[Colbinii]

I have this as pretty bad for Minnesota.

Conley and Garland are unplayable together, Towns is a significantly better talent than Garland and Jaylin Williams is pretty marginal value.

Conley is going to be 37 by time next season starts. I'd imagine you don't hold up a deal for that, he can be moved to a team who needs a vet pg.

The KAT > Garland part is where it gets tricky. I actually don't think he does, but I know the consensus disagrees with me. That's why in the OP I said debate over what value OKC needs to give Minnesota here. I'd imagine a pick or 2 is in order. Does that change your thoughts?

No, just no reason for Minnesota to be here.

Simple is better.

Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen

[LightTheBeam]

Can OP explain why this isn't just Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen?

That deal makes a ton of sense. But the Minnesota part doesn't seem to fit at all.

Sure. Let me explain. I'm a huge fan of Ant, been begging Minnesota to trade KAT since they drafted Ant, plenty of posts about it.

I think Minnesota is going to need to shed some salary.
Ant/McDaniels are two pieces I would never consider moving.
They overpaid and are never going to get any type of return back close to what they paid for for Gobert.
KAT is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and teams can probably still talk themselves into him being worth it.
Naz is sitting behind KAT, and proved he's well beyond worthy of a starter role. He fits perfectly with the team.
This balances Minnesota far more than relying on 37 year old Conley to play 32mpg, or running crazy lineups like NAW - Edwards - Naz - KAT - Gobert that we saw the other night.

[LightTheBeam]

I have this as pretty bad for Minnesota.

Conley and Garland are unplayable together, Towns is a significantly better talent than Garland and Jaylin Williams is pretty marginal value.

Conley is going to be 37 by time next season starts. I'd imagine you don't hold up a deal for that, he can be moved to a team who needs a vet pg.

The KAT > Garland part is where it gets tricky. I actually don't think he does, but I know the consensus disagrees with me. That's why in the OP I said debate over what value OKC needs to give Minnesota here. I'd imagine a pick or 2 is in order. Does that change your thoughts?

No, just no reason for Minnesota to be here.

Simple is better.

Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen

I don't see how this makes sense for Cleveland without moving Garland? It's fine if Minnesota isn't apart of it, I explained why I think they should be. But at that point I think a 3rd team is needed for this to make sense for Cleveland.

[Colbinii]

Conley is going to be 37 by time next season starts. I'd imagine you don't hold up a deal for that, he can be moved to a team who needs a vet pg.

The KAT > Garland part is where it gets tricky. I actually don't think he does, but I know the consensus disagrees with me. That's why in the OP I said debate over what value OKC needs to give Minnesota here. I'd imagine a pick or 2 is in order. Does that change your thoughts?

No, just no reason for Minnesota to be here.

Simple is better.

Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen

I don't see how this makes sense for Cleveland without moving Garland? It's fine if Minnesota isn't apart of it, I explained why I think they should be. But at that point I think a 3rd team is needed for this to make sense for Cleveland.

I agree, so find a different team.

San Antonio
Brooklyn
Los Angeles (Both!)
Miami
Utah (Probably not but possible)
Phoenix
Houston (FVV 4th team?)
Washington

All these teams could be in the market for Garland.

[Colbinii]

Can OP explain why this isn't just Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen?

That deal makes a ton of sense. But the Minnesota part doesn't seem to fit at all.

Sure. Let me explain. I'm a huge fan of Ant, been begging Minnesota to trade KAT since they drafted Ant, plenty of posts about it.

I think Minnesota is going to need to shed some salary.
Ant/McDaniels are two pieces I would never consider moving.
They overpaid and are never going to get any type of return back close to what they paid for for Gobert.
KAT is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and teams can probably still talk themselves into him being worth it.
Naz is sitting behind KAT, and proved he's well beyond worthy of a starter role. He fits perfectly with the team.
This balances Minnesota far more than relying on 37 year old Conley to play 32mpg, or running crazy lineups like NAW - Edwards - Naz - KAT - Gobert that we saw the other night.

I'm with you on moving KAT if the deal is right. But I don't think Garland moves the needle for Minnesota. Does he help them beat Denver more than KAT? If the answer is no, then the deal doesn't make sense, since Denver is going to be the team that Minnesota needs to beat for the next 2-3 years.

Here were my thoughts yesterday regarding Minnesota's situation.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

[brackdan70]

Can’t see why Minny would want any part of this.
Garland is not as good as people like to think. Undersized and injury prone because he needs to use his full explosiveness to be effective at all.

[LightTheBeam]

Can OP explain why this isn't just Giddey + Jaylin + 1st for Allen?

That deal makes a ton of sense. But the Minnesota part doesn't seem to fit at all.

Sure. Let me explain. I'm a huge fan of Ant, been begging Minnesota to trade KAT since they drafted Ant, plenty of posts about it.

I think Minnesota is going to need to shed some salary.
Ant/McDaniels are two pieces I would never consider moving.
They overpaid and are never going to get any type of return back close to what they paid for for Gobert.
KAT is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and teams can probably still talk themselves into him being worth it.
Naz is sitting behind KAT, and proved he's well beyond worthy of a starter role. He fits perfectly with the team.
This balances Minnesota far more than relying on 37 year old Conley to play 32mpg, or running crazy lineups like NAW - Edwards - Naz - KAT - Gobert that we saw the other night.

I'm with you on moving KAT if the deal is right. But I don't think Garland moves the needle for Minnesota. Does he help them beat Denver more than KAT? If the answer is no, then the deal doesn't make sense, since Denver is going to be the team that Minnesota needs to beat for the next 2-3 years.

Here were my thoughts yesterday regarding Minnesota's situation.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

Quality post. Seems like you've come around on moving KAT which we can both agree on.

Where we must disagree is
1. KAT's value
2. Garlands Value
3. Conley's effectiveness moving forward

Who would you suggest as a good target in a KAT trade?

[Colbinii]

Sure. Let me explain. I'm a huge fan of Ant, been begging Minnesota to trade KAT since they drafted Ant, plenty of posts about it.

I think Minnesota is going to need to shed some salary.
Ant/McDaniels are two pieces I would never consider moving.
They overpaid and are never going to get any type of return back close to what they paid for for Gobert.
KAT is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and teams can probably still talk themselves into him being worth it.
Naz is sitting behind KAT, and proved he's well beyond worthy of a starter role. He fits perfectly with the team.
This balances Minnesota far more than relying on 37 year old Conley to play 32mpg, or running crazy lineups like NAW - Edwards - Naz - KAT - Gobert that we saw the other night.

I'm with you on moving KAT if the deal is right. But I don't think Garland moves the needle for Minnesota. Does he help them beat Denver more than KAT? If the answer is no, then the deal doesn't make sense, since Denver is going to be the team that Minnesota needs to beat for the next 2-3 years.

Here were my thoughts yesterday regarding Minnesota's situation.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

Quality post. Seems like you've come around on moving KAT which we can both agree on.

Where we must disagree is
1. KAT's value
2. Garlands Value
3. Conley's effectiveness moving forward

Who would you suggest as a good target in a KAT trade?

I've been onboard with moving KAT for a while. I just view him in a positive light [think about how Kings fans view Sabonis] so trading him when he is viewed as neutral just doesn't make sense.

In an ideal world it's a 1-for-1 trade with another All-Star talent.

If that's not possible [it likely isn't], then a value contract for a less talented player [Mikal Bridges for example] and some minor assets to go along make some sense.

At the end of the day, Minnesota seems to be a pretty clear Top 3 team with year along with Denver and Boston. There is absolutely no reason to blow-up the team aside from Tax reasons, but the team can avoid major tax penalties by trading far less talented players than Towns.

[jbk1234]

Why is OKC in this trade? They're not contributing anything either team would want.