Warriors - Raptors: {Brown, Wiggins & co}

[islandboy53]

I hear you, but GSW themselves have indicated that they want to bring Klay back, and also get under the tax.

So we have to operate under that assumption, which means Wiggins and GP2 are eating up more cap than their oncourt minute production.


For Toronto: The assumption here is that Moody would be better than the 31st pick. Yeah he will need to be paid, but they have the money and cap space. If Scottie is going to ask for a super max, let him prove himself.




Quickley
Barrett / Moody
Wiggins / Dick
Scottie
Poeltl / Olynyk

Plus #19 and MLE.


If they start the season poorly, trade Poeltl & Olynyk for ‘25 picks. There’s no size left, and they’ll get a top 10 pick.

Scottie will get at least a 25% max starting in 25/26. Quickley will be making north of $25 million. Add Wiggins $28 million plus Moody's raise, and you have a team around the apron. That's a non starter for a team still on the development curve. Whether or not you think Wiggins fits the basketball needs of this team, he certainly doesn't fit salary wise.

Continue that train of thought:

Have you thought through what the NBA cap with the new TV deal will be in ‘26? All these guys will be signed based on the current deal, and it will look like peanuts.

Anyone suggesting a money crunch needs to understand the reality of the new deal that’s about to hit us in 2 years. Guys will be making $80M+ per year. Look it up.

Anyone referencing the new tv deal needs to keep in mind the maximum annual increase in the cap will be 10%. That max increase would set 25/26 numbers at approximately $155 million for the cap, $188 million for the tax, and $195 million for the 1st apron. That's based on the current numbers for next year. In your trade scenario, Toronto's salary in 25/26 would be about $199 million for 12 spots. That includes Scottie at 25% of the cap, IQ with $27 million, Moody on a new deal starting at the NTMLE, and a full NTMLE signing from 24/25. If next year's numbers are revised up to the 10% max from the current 3%, then the 25/26 tax and apron levels rise to $200 million and $207 million, giving a little wiggle room, but that scenario seems unlikely. Also, in 25/26 a full 35% max salary will be about $57 million if the cap rises 10% and 10%. We're a few years away from $80 million per.

In short, the deal proposed, and virtually every Wiggins proposal, is DOA based on the impact on Toronto's salary structure.

[Mr Swagtastic]

yeah Toronto needs to stop adding these kinds of players. Just let Brown walk and keep your 2nd. Because if Moody is okay, now you have to pay him which just compounds a bloated payroll for a mediocre roster.

And while this helps GSW financially, and doesn't hurt too much on the court from how Wiggins played this year, I think their only hope moving forward is for Wiggins to bounce back or to be able to move his salary with assets for a much better player than Brown.

And I know they probably are going to pay Klay some stupid amount over 2 years, they really shouldn't. Dude looks super cooked and if you are trimming salary to use an MLE, you start with not overpaying him, not trading Wiggins at a loss.

Have to agree here. I don't really see how this Toronto team is good enough to compete. They aren't close to the better teams like New York, Indiana, Milwaukee, Miami, Boston, Orlando and Cleveland. I think Cleveland might take a step back even with Mitchell and definitely if they lose him in free agency but they are still a good team.

Toronto is chasing a 7th to play in tournament status seed with a expensive roster headlined by a guy who took a massive step back in Wiggins. I don't get the fellow Raptors obsession with trading for him. Do you want to spent 20% of your cap on a guy who gives you 13/4/2 on average efficiency and is a horrible free throw shooter? Count me out, RJ Barrett went from being considered a bad deal to a acceptable one, I don't see how both RJ and Wiggins fit and you can't really afford one to be your 6th man on this team.

Moody has shown some upside but he's not worth this gamble. Toronto should cut ties with Brown unless they can move him for a bad expiring deal and pick back and tank for Flagg in 2025

[MessiahUjiri]

Scottie will get at least a 25% max starting in 25/26. Quickley will be making north of $25 million. Add Wiggins $28 million plus Moody's raise, and you have a team around the apron. That's a non starter for a team still on the development curve. Whether or not you think Wiggins fits the basketball needs of this team, he certainly doesn't fit salary wise.

Continue that train of thought:

Have you thought through what the NBA cap with the new TV deal will be in ‘26? All these guys will be signed based on the current deal, and it will look like peanuts.

Anyone suggesting a money crunch needs to understand the reality of the new deal that’s about to hit us in 2 years. Guys will be making $80M+ per year. Look it up.

Anyone referencing the new tv deal needs to keep in mind the maximum annual increase in the cap will be 10%. That max increase would set 25/26 numbers at approximately $155 million for the cap, $188 million for the tax, and $195 million for the 1st apron. That's based on the current numbers for next year. In your trade scenario, Toronto's salary in 25/26 would be about $199 million for 12 spots. That includes Scottie at 25% of the cap, IQ with $27 million, Moody on a new deal starting at the NTMLE, and a full NTMLE signing from 24/25. If next year's numbers are revised up to the 10% max from the current 3%, then the 25/26 tax and apron levels rise to $200 million and $207 million, giving a little wiggle room, but that scenario seems unlikely. Also, in 25/26 a full 35% max salary will be about $57 million if the cap rises 10% and 10%. We're a few years away from $80 million per.

In short, the deal proposed, and virtually every Wiggins proposal, is DOA based on the impact on Toronto's salary structure.

Going by the $200-205M figure. How do you get to 12 players at 199?


I’m assuming it’s around $150-160M for the top 5 guys signed to big deals, and then around $40M for rookies and min contracts.

Scottie/Wiggins/Quickley/RJ/Moody/
50/30/30/30/15 (rounding for even numbers, around $155-60M)

You get between 40-50M to spend on 10 guys who will be rookies and non-star vets. That’s doable.

Hopefully they’ve tanked and drafted well in 25. That seems like the best path forward.

[oldncreaky]

Continue that train of thought:

Have you thought through what the NBA cap with the new TV deal will be in ‘26? All these guys will be signed based on the current deal, and it will look like peanuts.

Anyone suggesting a money crunch needs to understand the reality of the new deal that’s about to hit us in 2 years. Guys will be making $80M+ per year. Look it up.

Anyone referencing the new tv deal needs to keep in mind the maximum annual increase in the cap will be 10%. That max increase would set 25/26 numbers at approximately $155 million for the cap, $188 million for the tax, and $195 million for the 1st apron. That's based on the current numbers for next year. In your trade scenario, Toronto's salary in 25/26 would be about $199 million for 12 spots. That includes Scottie at 25% of the cap, IQ with $27 million, Moody on a new deal starting at the NTMLE, and a full NTMLE signing from 24/25. If next year's numbers are revised up to the 10% max from the current 3%, then the 25/26 tax and apron levels rise to $200 million and $207 million, giving a little wiggle room, but that scenario seems unlikely. Also, in 25/26 a full 35% max salary will be about $57 million if the cap rises 10% and 10%. We're a few years away from $80 million per.

In short, the deal proposed, and virtually every Wiggins proposal, is DOA based on the impact on Toronto's salary structure.

Going by the $200-205M figure. How do you get to 12 players at 199?


I’m assuming it’s around $150-160M for the top 5 guys signed to big deals, and then around $40M for rookies and min contracts.

Scottie/Wiggins/Quickley/RJ/Moody/
50/30/30/30/15 (rounding for even numbers, around $155-60M)

You get between 40-50M to spend on 10 guys who will be rookies and non-star vets. That’s doable.

Hopefully they’ve tanked and drafted well in 25. That seems like the best path forward.

Mostly agree with Islandboy53

Poeltl + 2024 MLE + Dick + 2024 FRP ===> will add about $40M, which has Toronto flirting with the tax line in the summer of 2025 when Scottie's extension kicks in, and possibly over once the last 5-6 roster spots are filled

Oh, and the backup PG spot is still a huge question mark to be answered, and the front-line looks pretty weak once you get past Poeltl and Barnes, so they need to spend money there as well.

That said, the obvious action to avoid the tax line is to not use much, or even any, of the 2024 non-taxpayer MLE. But that implies that taking on Wiggins and Moody is the key move/choice made this off-season, and you're foregoing cap space and/or FAs. Is Wiggins and/or Moody worth that? Will either of them add anything that vaults Toronto from being a (maybe) play-in team to a play-off team?

I agree with those commenting that the OP would be a bit of a treadmill move for Toronto: raise the floor and make the play-in more likely, but take away flexibility and financial room to become anything more.

[islandboy53]

Continue that train of thought:

Have you thought through what the NBA cap with the new TV deal will be in ‘26? All these guys will be signed based on the current deal, and it will look like peanuts.

Anyone suggesting a money crunch needs to understand the reality of the new deal that’s about to hit us in 2 years. Guys will be making $80M+ per year. Look it up.

Anyone referencing the new tv deal needs to keep in mind the maximum annual increase in the cap will be 10%. That max increase would set 25/26 numbers at approximately $155 million for the cap, $188 million for the tax, and $195 million for the 1st apron. That's based on the current numbers for next year. In your trade scenario, Toronto's salary in 25/26 would be about $199 million for 12 spots. That includes Scottie at 25% of the cap, IQ with $27 million, Moody on a new deal starting at the NTMLE, and a full NTMLE signing from 24/25. If next year's numbers are revised up to the 10% max from the current 3%, then the 25/26 tax and apron levels rise to $200 million and $207 million, giving a little wiggle room, but that scenario seems unlikely. Also, in 25/26 a full 35% max salary will be about $57 million if the cap rises 10% and 10%. We're a few years away from $80 million per.

In short, the deal proposed, and virtually every Wiggins proposal, is DOA based on the impact on Toronto's salary structure.

Going by the $200-205M figure. How do you get to 12 players at 199?

Barnes 38.8 (25% of cap) + Wiggins 28.2 + Barrett 27.7 + IQ 27 + Poeltl 19.5 + Olynyk 13.5 + Agbaji 6.4 + Dick 5 +
#19 3.8 + #31 1.9 = 171.8 + MLE 14 + Moody 13 = 198.3

I’m assuming it’s around $150-160M for the top 5 guys signed to big deals, and then around $40M for rookies and min contracts.

Scottie/Wiggins/Quickley/RJ/Moody/
50/30/30/30/15 (rounding for even numbers, around $155-60M)

You get between 40-50M to spend on 10 guys who will be rookies and non-star vets. That’s doable.

Not really. You have Poeltl and Olynyk taking up $33 million.

Hopefully they’ve tanked and drafted well in 25. That seems like the best path forward.

The current roster is too good to tank with, and even more so with Wiggins and Moody.