CLE/PHX/UTH - Favors, Hayward, Love, Irving

[busybluth22]

CLE in: Favors, Knight, Tucker
CLE out: Love, Irving, 20' highly protected 1st

Favors can start at C with either Tucker or Frye at PF. Tucker is strong enough to guard most PFs & can give Lebron space to operate closer in, having improved his outside shooting. Knight brings you 90% of Kyrie’s offensive ability while giving much better effort defensively.

UTH in: Love, Irving, #4
UTH out: Favors, Hayward, Burke, #12

Love & Irving are locked in for the next 3 years at reasonable rates. Hayward could bolt after next season, Favors is only locked in for the next two. Gobert can hide a lot of Love’s defensive deficiencies. Irving can start at PG & hopefully improve his playmaking for others.

PHX in: Hayward, Burke, #12, 20' CLE 1st
PHX out: Knight, Tucker, #4

Rumor had it PHX was greatly interested in Hayward when he was a FA. Make the CLE 1st something like 1-20 protected for 2 years, 1-15 protected for the next 2 years, unprotected after that.

[spree8]

If I'm the Cavs I'd want Bledsoe instead of Knight. Other than that, this looks good for all involved.

[bwgood77]

Seems pretty fair to me. Knight had almost exactly the same numbers as Kyrie this year, and he actually usually shoots a lot better from 3 than he ended up this year because when Bledsoe went down he himself had nagging injuries but was playing in a bad lineup and was the primary ball handler. When he is the primary ball handler he often isos a bit much and his % goes down. When Bledsoe was primary ball handler, he shot much better and played better overall, so with LeBron, I think Knight could be good at pg in more of an off ball role who could handle it at times.

Tucker could bring them more energy and defense and can guard PGs to PFs when needed.

I don't know if Cavs fans would like this offer or not but I think it would help them defensively. PJ can hit corner 3s as well.

[rugbyrugger23]

I think a simpler Love + Irving to Utah for Hayward + Favors + Burke to Cavs works better.

C: Favors
F: TT/LBJ
F: LBJ/Hayward
G: Hayward/Shumpert
G: Vet/Mo/Burke

Hayward is about the perfect star compliment to LBJ and Favors gives them much needed D.

[sendai91]

Simple, clean trade with equal value out and in. Very nicely done. You win the award for most balanced trade proposal in some time.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Utah isn't doing that. Quin has installed a defensive identity. We aren't trading that away for 2 guys who don't play defense.

I have no problem with Hayward trades, but Derrick Favors isn't going anywhere. With Exum back, Utah is going to try and re-start that league best defense.

[ChuckDurn]

Utah isn't doing that. Quin has installed a defensive identity. We aren't trading that away for 2 guys who don't play defense.

I have no problem with Hayward trades, but Derrick Favors isn't going anywhere. With Exum back, Utah is going to try and re-start that league best defense.

Exactly.

I'm not sure why the words "Utah decides to become a dumpster fire defensively" weren't used in previous comments justifying the trade. Anybody who would take on both Love and Irving is basically deciding that they want to tie up a huge part of their salary structure on 2 guys who are massive defensive liabilities against good teams......

No way Utah would consider both of those guys coming over. They're smart to keep building as they are.

[jazzfan1971]

I've never been a fan of Love. Quite the opposite acutally, I've always thought he was overrated, but, maybe now his real value is closer to his perceived value. I think Kyrie is a bit overrated nowadays.

Jazzfans may overrate our own players as well, but, I wouldn't do this deal. Cleveland can keep their players or shop them elsewhere, I'm gonna take a pass and keep with what we have.

[EireannX]

UTH in: Love, Irving, #4
UTH out: Favors, Hayward, Burke, #12

Love & Irving are locked in for the next 3 years at reasonable rates. Hayward could bolt after next season, Favors is only locked in for the next two. Gobert can hide a lot of Love’s defensive deficiencies. Irving can start at PG & hopefully improve his playmaking for others.

Reasonable rates being a combined 35 million for two starters who only play at one end of the floor? What would be unreasonable?

If Irving can hopefully improve his playmaking then you should keep him. You know he won't and doesn't have the IQ to. So do we. So we're not interested in replacing our playmaker who plays solid defence with a ball hog who doesn't.

Similarly we're not interested in replacing our PF who plays at both ends with a PF who only has offence and seems to have lost his outside stroke. Yes Love put up great numbers with Rubio, but poor ones with Irving. Which PG are you trying to sell him to us with? And Favors isn't tagged as soft.

Irving is a slight upgrade over Exum in offence - his individual ability is miles ahead but until he learns to give up the ball and move he's getting his at the expense of the team. And Exum leaves him for dead at the other end of the floor.

And we're not willing to give up all that cap space for the luxury of downgrading.

[stitches]

I've been thinking about those stats for the last couple of days, but I don't know where to post them(I was wondering if a separate thread would be locked?) to get a more comprehensive answer to the following question:

Look at those lineup stats:

starting lineup with Neto: +7.2 net rating
starting lineup with Mack: +10.2 net rating
starting lineup with Exum+Hood as rookies from last year: +10.8 net rating
Burks+starting lineup(triple wing): +11.3 net rating.
Lyles instead of Gobert + starting lineup(Neto lineup): +11.4 net rating.
Lyles instead of Favors + starting lineup(Neto lineup): +9 net rating
Lyles instead of Favors + starting lineup(Mack lineup): +19.9 net rating

If your team had those stats while playing rookies in almost all lineups and the oldest player in those lineups was 25... would you trade your best 2 players?

I'm not even talking about value, the value is pretty good in a lot of those proposed trades for Favors and Hayward, but the question is - if your young team was posting this type of stats 7-8 deep, would you trade your best players before you even gave them the chance to see how good they can be?

Is it crazy for me to think that the Jazz just MUST let them play it out, in a similar way to how GSW refused a Klay for Love trade, because of the fit between the Splash Bros?

[hcsilla]

I think that the Suns would do this even without CLE's pick. If UTA is the the weakest link, send it to them although I'm not sure that it would convince them.

[busybluth22]

Reasonable rates being a combined 35 million for two starters who only play at one end of the floor? What would be unreasonable?

Are you aware that the salary cap is projected to be 107 million in 17-18?

Love is used as a glorified stretch forward & might not average 26/13 again, but he's certainly better than the #s he puts up as the 3rd wheel in CLE.

Sure Exum could live up to his potential, but it's pretty disappointing that he went on the Diaw/Mac offseason workout plan last year. Plus it's not like Irving can't grow & improve some of his weaknesses (he is only 3 years older than Exum).

No matter what, UTH is going to be incredibly dangerous next year so I can understand why Jazz fans want to see what their team can do fully healthy.

[babyjax13]

Reasonable rates being a combined 35 million for two starters who only play at one end of the floor? What would be unreasonable?

Are you aware that the salary cap is projected to be 107 million in 17-18?

Love is used as a glorified stretch forward & might not average 26/13 again, but he's certainly better than the #s he puts up as the 3rd wheel in CLE.

Sure Exum could live up to his potential, but it's pretty disappointing that he went on the Diaw/Mac offseason workout plan last year. Plus it's not like Irving can't grow & improve some of his weaknesses (he is only 3 years older than Exum).

No matter what, UTH is going to be incredibly dangerous next year so I can understand why Jazz fans want to see what their team can do fully healthy.

Lol, yah, Dante went on a Big Mac diet. Quit spreading a absurdities. Dante looked faster and stronger in summer league than the year before.

[asudevil]

I feel like Favors would be better sent to the suns and Hayward sent to the Cavs.

Suns trade: Knight/Tucker/#28
Suns get: Favors

Cavs trade: Love/Irving
Cavs get: Hayward/Knight/Tucker

Jazz trade: Favors/Hayward
Jazz get: Irving/Love/#28

a.) Suns biggest weakness is PF....Favors easily fills the void.

Len/Chandler
Favors/Tele?
Warren/#13
Booker/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Dunn

b.) Lebron at his age may best be served as PF. Hayward slides in a SF, while Tucker becomes the 3&D they need.

Thompson/Mozgov
Lebron/Frye
Hayward/Tucker
Smith/Shump
Knight/Delle

[patman52]

Utah still has the two best players going out.

Gobert does help a lot with Love.

The cavs can take a chance with Hayward as LBJ would attract someone in '17 if Hayward bolts.

[EireannX]

Are you aware that the salary cap is projected to be 107 million in 17-18?

Yes I am aware that we just spent 1/3 of the cap on two players who don't play defence and don't play well together. That's a heck of a return for our franchise cornerstones. And their contracts expire after we need to extend Hood, Gobert and Exum, so that's likely to be an issue as well.

Love is used as a glorified stretch forward & might not average 26/13 again, but he's certainly better than the #s he puts up as the 3rd wheel in CLE.

So Kyrie will suddenly learn to get him the ball where he needs it in Utah? We're getting the same lack of playmaking so we should expect the same lack of production. And seeing as Favors now is just as productive as Love is now, but Favors plays both ends of the court that's a hell of a step backwards just in the hope that Love could be slightly more productive.

Sure Exum could live up to his potential, but it's pretty disappointing that he went on the Diaw/Mac offseason workout plan last year. Plus it's not like Irving can't grow & improve some of his weaknesses (he is only 3 years older than Exum).

Then why aren't you keeping Irving? Wouldn't you want to harvest all that improvement so he can still be a worse player than Hayward? But it's Ok because he's only played more than 60 games in a season twice, so it's not like we could call him injury prone. That's exactly the kind of guy we want to replace our leader with.

No matter what, UTH is going to be incredibly dangerous next year so I can understand why Jazz fans want to see what their team can do fully healthy.

I don't mind a trade that consolidates talent. I don't want a trade that dumps two players who have proven issues onto us in return for our core.

[rsavaj]

value seems a little light for Utah; not sure what else could be added to sweeten the deal for them