Hawks trade #1 to Spurs for #4 and #8

[raleigh]

You can do #1 vs #4 #8 in the last 10 or 20 years

And that would be the appropriate way to evaluate the decision.

[Myth]

Just for fun, i went ahead and compared #1 to #4 and #8 in the last five drafts...

Wembanyama vs Amen Thompson and Jarace Walker

Banchero vs Keegan Murray and Dyson Daniels

Cunningham vs Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner

Anthony Edwards vs Patrick Williams and Obi Toppin

Zion vs DeAndr Hunter vs Jaxson Hayes

So ya LOL, no thanks.....

I do take Barnes + Franz over Cade though.

[jayjaysee]

You can do #1 vs #4 #8 in the last 10 or 20 years

And that would be the appropriate way to evaluate the decision.

Shrugs.

So the last five have been done, and number 1 is 4 and 1 (I’ll take Barnes/Franz over Cade, the rest is the stars)… So starting after Zion?

2018 - Ayton for JJJ (and anyone)
Atlanta 4 and 2
2017 - Fultz (but that’s just a bad trade really) for Josh Jackson and Frank
Atlanta 5 and 2 (terrible misses all around, like avoiding drafting talent)
2016 - Simmons vs Bender and Chriss
Atlanta 6 and 2
2015 - KAT vs Zinger and Stanley Johnson
Atlanta 7 and 2
2014 - Wiggins for Aaron Gordon and Nik Sauce
Meh? I’ll give Denver Gordon
Atlanta 7 and 3
2013 - Bennet vs Zeller/KCP
Atlanra 7 and 4
2012 - AD vs Ross and Waiters
Atlanta 8 and 4
2011 - Kyrie vs Tristan Thompson and Brandon Knight
Atlanta 9 and 4
2010 - Wall vs Aminu and Wesley Johnson
Atlanta 10 and 4
2009 - Blake Griffin vs Reke Evans and Jordan Hill
Atlanta 11 and 4
2008 - Rose vs Westbrook and Joe Alexander?
One of the saddest stories but Atlanta 11 and 5
2007 - Oden vs Conley
Another sad story, but Atlanta 11 and 6
2006 - Bargs vs Gay and Tyrus Thomas
Atlanta 11 and 7
2005 - Bogut vs Paul and anyone
11 and 8
2004 - Howard vs Livingston and Arauto
12 and 8
2003 - LBJ vs world
13 and 8
2002 - Yao vs Gooden and Wilcox
14 and 8
2001 - Kwame vs Diop and Curry
No one? 14 and 9 I guess.

Not that that really matters, but the trend is Atlanta loses but it’s closer than either side wants to acknowledge on average?

[PhillyNj]

The hawks would never do this, just the PR is terrible.

[Texas Chuck]

I totally disagree with using past drafts to evaluate if these teams should do this. None of those players are available. This is going to come down to the Spurs are convinced one of these guys is exactly what we need(and in that case you'd pay even more) while the Hawks don't believe any of them are special so they just want more variance shots.

Hawks never do this deal in the AD draft, they always do it in the Bennett draft. But that's just not relevant here.

[atlantabbq99]

You can do #1 vs #4 #8 in the last 10 or 20 years

And that would be the appropriate way to evaluate the decision.

Shrugs.

So the last five have been done, and number 1 is 4 and 1 (I’ll take Barnes/Franz over Cade, the rest is the stars)… So starting after Zion?

2018 - Ayton for JJJ (and anyone)
Atlanta 4 and 2
2017 - Fultz (but that’s just a bad trade really) for Josh Jackson and Frank
Atlanta 5 and 2 (terrible misses all around, like avoiding drafting talent)
2016 - Simmons vs Bender and Chriss
Atlanta 6 and 2
2015 - KAT vs Zinger and Stanley Johnson
Atlanta 7 and 2
2014 - Wiggins for Aaron Gordon and Nik Sauce
Meh? I’ll give Denver Gordon
Atlanta 7 and 3
2013 - Bennet vs Zeller/KCP
Atlanra 7 and 4
2012 - AD vs Ross and Waiters
Atlanta 8 and 4
2011 - Kyrie vs Tristan Thompson and Brandon Knight
Atlanta 9 and 4
2010 - Wall vs Aminu and Wesley Johnson
Atlanta 10 and 4
2009 - Blake Griffin vs Reke Evans and Jordan Hill
Atlanta 11 and 4
2008 - Rose vs Westbrook and Joe Alexander?
One of the saddest stories but Atlanta 11 and 5
2007 - Oden vs Conley
Another sad story, but Atlanta 11 and 6
2006 - Bargs vs Gay and Tyrus Thomas
Atlanta 11 and 7
2005 - Bogut vs Paul and anyone
11 and 8
2004 - Howard vs Livingston and Arauto
12 and 8
2003 - LBJ vs world
13 and 8
2002 - Yao vs Gooden and Wilcox
14 and 8
2001 - Kwame vs Diop and Curry
No one? 14 and 9 I guess.

Bravo, nicely done.....

If you are Vegas, the odds of 4 and 8 panning out are just not that good.

[HartfordWhalers]

It is a proven fact that the draft is flat until after my team picks, and then there is a steep drop off.

As a result my team says no and proposes an absurd counter trade that violates forum rules.

[WillyJakkz]

You don't trade potentially Topic and Clingan (or even Edey) for Sarr when you have Wemby as the lead

[Snakebites]

I totally disagree with using past drafts to evaluate if these teams should do this. None of those players are available. This is going to come down to the Spurs are convinced one of these guys is exactly what we need(and in that case you'd pay even more) while the Hawks don't believe any of them are special so they just want more variance shots.

Hawks never do this deal in the AD draft, they always do it in the Bennett draft. But that's just not relevant here.

Not to mention they’re also assuming the same guys are taken.

I doubt anyone but SVG was taking Stanley Johnson at 8- you can’t just declare that pick spot useless in hindsight because that’s who the original team took.

[Billl]

I can't imagine atlanta is trading the #. They are playing with house money at this point. If they do end up trading it, I would expect it to be for established NBA talent, not to fill the lineup with rookies.

[dakomish23]

I have Sarr a tier to himself, not interested in 4 and 8 with the guys in this draft.

Lol every year we hear the same story on this board: that this is an [X]-player draft, where [X] is coincidentally the pick my favorite team has.

I always joked that the Knicks happened to have the pick right at the spot where it was an X player draft according to fans and pundits

It was just cope for us foolishly trying to win games when we should have tanked. I’m still pissed about 17-18

[dakomish23]

First glance I would absolutely do this if I was SAS but I haven’t dived deep enough into the draft weeds yet. I like this kid Sarr. But they have a lot of roster to build around Wemby.

Gonna be an interesting draft night

[louc1970]

I see Atlanta taking Sarr and not looking over their shoulder. The only way Atlanta looks to move is if they were to move back and get Clingan. They should take either Clingan or Sarr to ease the move of Capela/Okongwu.

The question I have is: would Washington be willing to trade out of #2 for Murray? Washington would get a PG to run with Coulibaly/Avdija, Atlanta would be able to take 2 of Risacher/Sarr/Clingan.

[BDM22]

In this draft it's more like having the #10 or the #13 and #17.

You don't have to exaggerate to make your point.

I was just listening to the Zach Lowe's podcast. That's where I got it from. He was with GM's at the lottery and said he had multiple executives say it was like cutting the top 10 picks off of the top of the draft entirely according to their scouts. Some said it was more like cutting off the top 5 or 6. It wasn't my notion, it was NBA scouts.

[dakomish23]

Just for fun, i went ahead and compared #1 to #4 and #8 in the last five drafts...

Wembanyama vs Amen Thompson and Jarace Walker

Banchero vs Keegan Murray and Dyson Daniels

Cunningham vs Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner

Anthony Edwards vs Patrick Williams and Obi Toppin

Zion vs DeAndr Hunter vs Jaxson Hayes

So ya LOL, no thanks.....

A fair comparison would be best player in the draft vs players picked after the top 3 for #4 and players picked after the top 7 for pick #8, b/c those were the options available. Just b/c those GMs **** the bed doesn’t mean the option for a way better outcome wasn’t there.

IE

Anthony Edwards vs Tyrese Haliburton & Tyrese Maxey (my order for top 3 players in the draft)

[Bornstellar]

Pass. I think this is one of the few drafts where you'd rather have 4 and 8 than 1, especially with no consensus #1 pick and the salary implications. Whomever the Spurs are eyeing is likely to be available at 4 since I doubt it's Sarr or Clingan.

[One_and_Done]

Just for fun, i went ahead and compared #1 to #4 and #8 in the last five drafts...

Wembanyama vs Amen Thompson and Jarace Walker

Banchero vs Keegan Murray and Dyson Daniels

Cunningham vs Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner

Anthony Edwards vs Patrick Williams and Obi Toppin

Zion vs DeAndr Hunter vs Jaxson Hayes

So ya LOL, no thanks.....

Except that's silly, because this year picking 1 isn't much different to picking 4. Not every draft is the same.

This is not true. In 2020 draft it was a five man race for #1, Edwards, Wiseman, Lamelo, Killian, and Avdija and this is not even including Haliburton who was protected to be a mid to late lottery talent.

I don't even get what the point here is. If the point is that the draft will have at least 5 good players, then that's just backing up my point. If the point is that teams saw 5 players as comparable at the top, that is also a point for me. I don't entirely agree with that point in 2020 btw, but in any event that was 2020. This is 2024, and in 2024 analysts see little difference between 1 and 5.

[raleigh]

Hawks never do this deal in the AD draft, they always do it in the Bennett draft. But that's just not relevant here.

Yes, we would prefer a reality where teams can leap into the future a half-decade, determine the likely outcomes for the respective players, and then return to the current time.

In this reality, however, you have to use past data to make predictions about the future.

[Texas Chuck]

Hawks never do this deal in the AD draft, they always do it in the Bennett draft. But that's just not relevant here.

Yes, we would prefer a reality where teams can leap into the future a half-decade, determine the likely outcomes for the respective players, and then return to the current time.

In this reality, however, you have to use past data to make predictions about the future.

What a wild and false representation of my post. I said nothing about a time machine. But I also don't care about drafts that don't pertain to this one.

And in real-time they obviously trade up for the AD we knew then. They don't trade up for Bennett or Noel or whomever they would pick #1. In real-time. Not with the advantage of hindsight.

Some drafts have a bunch of elite players, some don't. But I can only select from the draft eligible players this year. I'm the guy trying to deal in the now. Not the future. But also not the past.

[Chinook]

I personally see this draft as more of an Irving draft than a Bennett one. The 2011 draft had four future HoFers and three other All-Stars, but only one of those guys went in the top-eight. By some definitions, the 2011 draft was the best of the decade (especially if Young doesn't progress further). In some ways, it was a horrible draft because GMs had no consensus on who the best guys where. The resultant talent can be put against that of any other draft and hold its own. But GMs still went for the busts over them.

There's a lot of talent in this draft, and saying this year is like if the top 5 to 10 guys were removed from a normal draft is absurd. But what talent is going to pan out is the question. Having two chances to find one of those eventual diamonds seem much better than having one earlier chance.