What will you give up for Mini-Nocioni?

[mistatwo mayn]

Pietrus?

[positivetension]

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not sure how you call Moon 'one of the worst starters at his position in the league

Its obvious and painstakingly easy to call him one of the worst starters in the NBa at the 3. Better SF's:

Pierce
Jefferson
Igoudala
Deng
Prince
Granger
Williams
Wallace
Lewis
Butler
Davis
Battier
Gay
Peja
Bowen
Webster
AK
Durant
Jackson
Durant
Hill
Artest
Maggete



So yes, he is competing with guys like Bobby Simmons and Qrich for bottom of the barrel.

And Kleiza is better than which of those guys?

[shrink]

Since DEN is over the lux, isn't he more valuable to the Nuggets as an expiring? Instead of being mini-his savings doubles in size.

[yunggunz]

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And Kleiza is better than which of those guys?

Its hard to tell because hes been stuck behind Melo his entire career and has been reeled in offensively next to ai and melo.
But i see no reason why he couldnt put up stats similar to granger, marvin williams and grant hill with a team like toronto. He probably wouldnt be better than them, but a heck of a lot better than Moon. I could see him being better than Ricky Davis and Martell Webster though.

[positivetension]

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Its hard to tell because hes been stuck behind Melo his entire career and has been reeled in offensively next to ai and melo.
But i see no reason why he couldnt put up stats similar to granger, marvin williams and grant hill with a team like toronto. He probably wouldnt be better than them, but a heck of a lot better than Moon. I could see him being better than Ricky Davis and Martell Webster though.

Moon today: 16pts 7rbs 3blks

On the season he's averaging 8pts 6rbs 1.6blks. Kleiza is 10pts 3rbs. I don't think he is a 'heck of a lot better'.

[RyGuy24]

Mini Nocioni?

Kleiza is not even half the defender Nocioni is though

As a Bulls fan, i'd say Kleiza is better. Nocioni can take charges among the best, but he's not a good defender. His footspeed is way too slow to keep up with SF's, and he's way undrsized when guarding PF's. He also thinks job to double team whoever has the ball, regardless of where his man goes. You can ask most other Bulls fans as well, they'd agree.

[hermes]

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[Nutty Nats Fan]

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Moon today: 16pts 7rbs 3blks

On the season he's averaging 8pts 6rbs 1.6blks. Kleiza is 10pts 3rbs. I don't think he is a 'heck of a lot better'.

Do need to remember Moon gets more minutes than Kleize.

Per 48 those averages change to:
Moon: 13.2 (44% FG), 10.6 boards, and 2.64 blocks.
Kleiza: 22.7 (48% FG), 8.3 boards, and 0.57 blocks.

So Kleiza is scoring a lot more points with a better precentage, and while the boards are a little lower, he doesn't need to and won't grab as many with the team he is on. On the Raptors, only Bosh grabs a lot of boards. Can give him the blocks, and LK brings three point shooting which Moon doesn't. He also is better at the FT.

[schaffy]

[quote="Nutty Nats Fan"][/quote]

Per 48 Min doesnt mean much. Antoine Walker is avg. 23/9/ and 1.5 steals per 48 minutes. So Walker is better than Kleiza.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

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Per 48 Min doesnt mean much. Antoine Walker is avg. 23/9/ and 1.5 steals per 48 minutes. So Walker is better than Kleiza.

Haha, nice try, but no. Walker is shooting 37% and 54% on FT's. Those suck.

Besides, I brought up 48, because he was bringing up stats, which also doesn't mean as much when one player gets more minutes than the other.

[schaffy]

^ Walker shoots 355 from 3, Kleiza shoots 318. Not trying to say Walker is a better all-around player, they just have different areas where they are better. I do think Kleiza is a better player, just be careful about how you use stats.

[yunggunz]

^ Walker shoots 355 from 3, Kleiza shoots 318. Not trying to say Walker is a better all-around player, they just have different areas where they are better. I do think Kleiza is a better player, just be careful about how you use stats.

Kleiza is also 62% inside the arc, which is better than any non 7 footer in the league (in fact I think its third in the league)

[St.Nick]

Warriors will offer Kelenna Azuibuike and Patrick O'Bryant for Linas, Diawara, and Anthony Carter.

What do you think of that idea?

[Schad]

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Its hard to tell because hes been stuck behind Melo his entire career and has been reeled in offensively next to ai and melo.
But i see no reason why he couldnt put up stats similar to granger, marvin williams and grant hill with a team like toronto. He probably wouldnt be better than them, but a heck of a lot better than Moon. I could see him being better than Ricky Davis and Martell Webster though.

Worth noting, most of Moon's defensive numbers are in or around the top 5 among starting SFs. He's sixth in rebounding (first on a per minute basis), second in blocked shots and blk/40 (behind Kirilenko), top five in opponent eFG% among starters at the SF spot.

I'm not doubting that Moon is one of the worst offensive players at the position, and in the bottom half of all starters (probably somewhere in the low 20s), but his defensive play is why I'd gladly have him right now over Kleiza (a vastly superior offensive player), as well as guys like Davis or Webster for the time being, though there are probably 30+ players at SF with more trade value.