TOR/UTAH - Jazz get back into the playoff picture

[Social Lubrication]

Utah had a strong start to the season, but their PG play and their back court in general seems to be letting them down. This trade beefs up their back court and gets them back into the playoffs.

Utah
>>> TPE (okur trade), Watson, Miles, GSW's 1st round pick (lottery protected)
>>> Calderon, Barbosa

Calderon's ball distributing ability and 3pt shot will really help open up space for Utah's extremely talented frontcourt. Barbosa provides some scoring punch at SG for the 2nd unit.

Toronto
>>> Calderon, Barbosa
<<< TPE (okur trade), Watson, Miles, GSW's 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Toronto gets capspace, a mid-first round pick and a cheap stop-gap PG in Watson.

[Amish Mafioso]

I'd rather work a deal around Harris without the GS pick involved.

[Social Lubrication]

I'd rather work a deal around Harris without the GS pick involved.

I'd take Harris if he had an expiring contract, but he has another year at $8.5M unfortunately.

If you don't want to include a 1st round pick, I'd do Calderon for the TPE, Watson and a 2nd rounder OR the option to swap first round picks (insurance in case Toronto has a strong 2nd half and ends up picking >8th).

Both trades keep you under the luxury tax btw, in case you were wondering.

[BossHoggin]

Calderon is not worth a lottery pick

[Social Lubrication]

Calderon is not worth a lottery pick

If you read carefully, you will see that I have not at any point suggested he is worth a lottery pick.

[Trader_Joe]

Calderon is not worth a lottery pick

If you read carefully, you will see that I have not at any point suggested he is worth a lottery pick.

I don't think Utah is allowed to change the protection on the GS pick they own. That pick is only top 7/7/6 protected IIRC, not lottery protected.

[loserX]

Calderon is not worth a lottery pick

If you read carefully, you will see that I have not at any point suggested he is worth a lottery pick.

I don't think Utah is allowed to change the protection on the GS pick they own. That pick is only top 7/7/6 protected IIRC, not lottery protected.

We can certainly increase the protection. We'll just say, if it's in the top 6, GS keeps it; if it's 7-14, Utah gets it from GSW and keeps it; anything later than that, otherwise Toronto gets it.

I wouldn't do it for this trade, though. And if we're taking Calderon I want to move Harris, not Watson and a TPE.

[Trader_Joe]

We can certainly increase the protection. We'll just say, if it's in the top 6, GS keeps it; if it's 7-14, Utah gets it from GSW and keeps it; anything later than that, otherwise Toronto gets it.

I wouldn't do it for this trade, though. And if we're taking Calderon I want to move Harris, not Watson and a TPE.

I was wondering about that. Has there ever been an instance of a team increasing/altering the protection on an already protected 3rd party pick?

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

This is horrendous for the Jazz; easy no from us.

Captain Barbosa has been a shell of his former self for the last 3 years and Jose is arguably the worst defensive point guard in the league (not to mention Barbosa is a bad defender too). This deal would make us worse, far worse... both on the court and financially.

The only way the Raps even get to sniff at that GS pick and/or Earl Watson is if they include DeRozan. In fact, I don't think any deal between the Raps and Jazz is even worth talking about unless Raps include DD.

[Social Lubrication]

I think your perceptions of Calderon and Barbosa are off the mark, especially Calderon. He has a 17.8 PER, .557 TS% and is averaging 8.8 assists/game. His defense isn't great, but it's not nearly as terrible as it's made out to be either. It certainly can't be any worse than Harris this year.

Barbosa's numbers are down a bit, but he's hardly a shell of his former self. He's playing with motivation as he's in a contract year and has been one of the few consistently solid players on the Raptors this season.

Also, it made me chuckle when you presented the pick and Earl Watson in the same breath, as if they're even close to comparable in value.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I think your perceptions of Calderon and Barbosa are off the mark, especially Calderon. He has a 17.8 PER, .557 TS% and is averaging 8.8 assists/game. His defense isn't great, but it's not nearly as terrible as it's made out to be either. It certainly can't be any worse than Harris this year.

Barbosa's numbers are down a bit, but he's hardly a shell of his former self. He's playing with motivation as he's in a contract year and has been one of the few consistently solid players on the Raptors this season.

Also, it made me chuckle when you presented the pick and Earl Watson in the same breath, as if they're even close to comparable in value.

You're overvaluing Calderon by a mile. He's good on offense but his total utter lack of defense outweighs anything he does on offense. I would compare his defense to that of Derek Fisher, if not worse. He's completely useless on the D end of the floor and the Jazz are hanging their hats on defense right now. Harris is a far better defensive PG this year than Calderon has ever been throughout his entire career. Besides, why would we want to bring in Calderon while keeping Harris? It makes no sense at all for the Jazz unless Harris is being shipped out.

Barbosa still has another year left on his contract if I'm not mistaken.

Ya, Watson's true value may not be as high as the GSW pick but to the Jazz, he's an important and very valuable piece. He's the captain of this years team and is providing invaluable leadership and mentoring to our young players. He's also a fan favorite and is a perfect fit for our system, I have a hard time seeing the Jazz moving him unless it's for something really, really good and frankly, this deal is far from brining the Jazz anything really, really good.

[Alfred]

I think your perceptions of Calderon and Barbosa are off the mark, especially Calderon. He has a 17.8 PER, .557 TS% and is averaging 8.8 assists/game. His defense isn't great, but it's not nearly as terrible as it's made out to be either. It certainly can't be any worse than Harris this year.

Barbosa's numbers are down a bit, but he's hardly a shell of his former self. He's playing with motivation as he's in a contract year and has been one of the few consistently solid players on the Raptors this season.

Also, it made me chuckle when you presented the pick and Earl Watson in the same breath, as if they're even close to comparable in value.

Barbosa still has another year left on his contract if I'm not mistaken.

You're mistaken.

You're overvaluing Calderon by a mile. He's good on offense but his total utter lack of defense outweighs anything he does on offense. I would compare his defense to that of Derek Fisher, if not worse. He's completely useless on the D end of the floor and the Jazz are hanging their hats on defense right now. Harris is a far better defensive PG this year than Calderon has ever been throughout his entire career. Besides, why would we want to bring in Calderon while keeping Harris? It makes no sense at all for the Jazz unless Harris is being shipped out.

Calderon's defense hasn't been that bad at all this season. Take a look at the stats:

108 DRating, down from 114 last season
Per 82games.com, he holds other PGs to 15.1 PER

[Social Lubrication]

You're overvaluing Calderon by a mile. He's good on offense but his total utter lack of defense outweighs anything he does on offense. I would compare his defense to that of Derek Fisher, if not worse. He's completely useless on the D end of the floor and the Jazz are hanging their hats on defense right now. Harris is a far better defensive PG this year than Calderon has ever been throughout his entire career. Besides, why would we want to bring in Calderon while keeping Harris? It makes no sense at all for the Jazz unless Harris is being shipped out

Ya, Watson's true value may not be as high as the GSW pick but to the Jazz, he's an important and very valuable piece. He's the captain of this years team and is providing invaluable leadership and mentoring to our young players. He's also a fan favorite and is a perfect fit for our system, I have a hard time seeing the Jazz moving him unless it's for something really, really good and frankly, this deal is far from brining the Jazz anything really, really good.

Didn't realize Watson was so important to you guys. Just checked and saw he's averaging 22 mins per game. I liked Watson when he was in his prime, so it's good to see he's still playing well. You got a bargain for $2m/yr.

and FYI:
1. The Jazz are 23rd in the league in DEF EFF and 11th in OFF EFF, the exact opposite of a team that "hangs its hat on defense"
2. Caleron's defensive stats are equal to or better than Harris' this year.
3. Barbosa is an expiring contract.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Can't see The Jazz taking on Jose when they have Harris makes little to no sense for me at least esp when they are moving a first which could be a good pick in the next few years.

Calderon is playing like a very good PG this year but he still wouldn't get this kind of return. Just can't see anything that will get it done from both sides that's fair

[Alfred]

Devin Harris' DRating: 109
Calderon's DRating: 108
(lower is better)

Point guards also play like All-Stars against Devin Harris, boasting over 18 PER when playing against him.

And that's saying nothing about their offensive games. Calderon's been much better on that side of the floor.

[Parataxis]

We can certainly increase the protection. We'll just say, if it's in the top 6, GS keeps it; if it's 7-14, Utah gets it from GSW and keeps it; anything later than that, otherwise Toronto gets it.

I wouldn't do it for this trade, though. And if we're taking Calderon I want to move Harris, not Watson and a TPE.

I was wondering about that. Has there ever been an instance of a team increasing/altering the protection on an already protected 3rd party pick?

The logistics would be terrible. For instance - GSW pick ends up 10th. Do Raptors get nothing at all? Generally with a protected pick, you get the same pick next year (often with less protection) but here the GSW 13 pick may not be Utah's to trade.

Unless it was GSW12 (protected) and if not delivered, Utah13(top8)

***
As an aside, I don't think there's much point in Toronto moving Jose to get Harris back, if that's the trade. Unless you're suggesting Harris instead of Watson/TPE, but with the pick still in?

[Trader_Joe]

Personally, I would rather have Calderon as my starting PG than Harris. Harris if anything should go back to his 6th man role that he had in Dallas. He's just not a quality starting PG IMO and I never saw good defense from him in NJ. Perhaps as a 6th man he could be a nice spark on the bench and play decent defense is short bursts.

[babyjax13]

Jazz say no to this pretty easily. If we trade for Calderon, that means Harris is leaving....and there is no way that we move future assets for guys that won't be on the team in two years (and are wretched defenders).

[leroydaman]

Easy no from Utah. Toronto has nothing that is worth the GSW pick. Say what you will about Harris and I'm certainly no fan but at least he was an all-star 3 years ago and has been the starting PG on winning teams while calderon is an overpaid career loser who has never lead an NBA team to a winning record.