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Official: Redick to Bucks

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Who won the trade

Milwaukee
14
34%
Orlando
16
39%
Both
5
12%
Neither
4
10%
Philadelphia?
2
5%
 
Total votes : 41

Post#21 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:26 am by Baddy Chuck

Pretty dumb trade. We could get the 8th seed without him and we have the cap to get him in the offseason. I think Tobes will show well in Orlando, you guys will like him.
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Post#22 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 am by MagicFan32

yeah everyone said the magic got a buncha scrubs for dwight howard to, henny knows what he's doing
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Post#23 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:20 am by Prospect Dong

Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.


This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925
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Post#24 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 am by tiderulz

Prospect Dong wrote:
Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.


This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925


generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.
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Post#25 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:33 am by Golabki

tiderulz wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.


This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925


generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.
Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.
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Post#26 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 am by SCourGe OF GoD

Hammond shoulda kept Harris and offered a 2nd + cash considerations instead
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Post#27 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:27 am by Prospect Dong

tiderulz wrote:
Prospect Dong wrote:
Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.


This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925


generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.


Sure, two young players, and one intriguing one. Maybe two young and two intruiging, if you're being generous. But not:

3 intriguing young players


Hence my (pretty self-explanatory) correction.
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Post#28 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:39 pm by tiderulz

Golabki wrote:
tiderulz wrote:generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.
Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.


so Lamb has half a year in the league under a coach not known for really playing youth and he isnt good? possibly i guess, but easily someone worth a flyer on. Maybe he develops with Orlando. Vucevic didnt look like he does now with Philly last year.
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Post#29 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:57 pm by Golabki

tiderulz wrote:
Golabki wrote:
tiderulz wrote:generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.
Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.


so Lamb has half a year in the league under a coach not known for really playing youth and he isnt good? possibly i guess, but easily someone worth a flyer on. Maybe he develops with Orlando. Vucevic didnt look like he does now with Philly last year.

Well... we're talking about a mid-second rounder, who hasn't looked effective in the NBA or the NBDL. You'd be lucky to get a late 2nd for him. His value is a close to zero as possible. He might become an viable NBA player, but there are equally "interesting" players with no NBA contract.

...given a choice between Lamb and Jerel McNeal for my 15 roster spot, I'd take McNeal.
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Post#30 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:59 pm by Gomagic44

buckboy wrote:^^

That seems to be the Bucks plan. Spend a ton of money to be average. It's wonderful being a Bucks fan.

In this deal, I think you're overvaluing what Milwaukee gave up. Harris has a chance to be a rotation player. Udrih is useful in a different settting (3rd string emergency point guard on a good team). Lamb is garbage.

I'd be surprised if anyone Orlando got became a good player for them.


I have no hostility for the bucks. However, you are wholly overestimating what we gave the bucks. Ish is damn quick, but he blows. Ayon is atrocious. JJ is a great
Player IMHO and I'm not bein a homer. He works his tail off day in day out. Always improving.

The bucks roster confuses me so I don't know how he will
Fit, but I happily take the young and unplayed players you gave us.

Orlando wins. We avoided an awkward situation in the offseason with having to resign or match offers for reddick, while continuing the tank and getting rid of what we already know are players who don't fit. I may be delusional but we will win a chip before Charlotte or Milwaukee. And this trade helped us in Our rebuild to do so.
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Post#31 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:02 pm by FireNellieQuick

No way Orlando wins. Yes, they got a little something for a player who wasn't going to stay, but that was their own choosing and their own doing. Salvaging a little value isn't a win, its making the best of a situation.

MIL OTOH got the best player in the deal, and likely the best overall player when its all said and done. Lamb - and sorry Bucks fans - sucks. He just sucks, he doesnt belong on an NBA court right now. And if he does put it together, it's almost assured it wont be on his rookie deal, and thus the entire NBA will have a crack at him. Tobias Harris is the value piece, and I can kinda see why MIL soured on him. He goes a little Anthony Randolphish sometimes. But he's a great FT shooter for a slasher and that can definitely retain some value. That said, I'll take an elite efficiency PG/SG type over that.

And then you factor in free agents and team-building. Both teams need to make good trades and draft well, because they aren't FA hot-spots. The Bucks just gave themselves a significant advantage in retaining Redick through his prime. And a guy who fits well on paper with their likely franchise player, Brandon Jennings. They did very well for what looks to be a long-term prospect.
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Post#32 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:00 pm by SEBAS-07

FireNellieQuick wrote:No way Orlando wins. Yes, they got a little something for a player who wasn't going to stay, but that was their own choosing and their own doing. Salvaging a little value isn't a win, its making the best of a situation.

MIL OTOH got the best player in the deal, and likely the best overall player when its all said and done. Lamb - and sorry Bucks fans - sucks. He just sucks, he doesnt belong on an NBA court right now. And if he does put it together, it's almost assured it wont be on his rookie deal, and thus the entire NBA will have a crack at him. Tobias Harris is the value piece, and I can kinda see why MIL soured on him. He goes a little Anthony Randolphish sometimes. But he's a great FT shooter for a slasher and that can definitely retain some value. That said, I'll take an elite efficiency PG/SG type over that.

And then you factor in free agents and team-building. Both teams need to make good trades and draft well, because they aren't FA hot-spots. The Bucks just gave themselves a significant advantage in retaining Redick through his prime. And a guy who fits well on paper with their likely franchise player, Brandon Jennings. They did very well for what looks to be a long-term prospect.


I guess Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill were not big free agents signings. I would like to read the big Warriors signings.
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Post#33 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:03 pm by JayMKE

There is no way Orlando lost the trade, they got some decent assets for a guy they weren't going to resign, it can only get better for them. What does this accomplish for the Bucks? We're not making it out of the 1st round this year and we're going to have to spend a lot of money on Redick to retain him(he isn't taking a discount to stay in Milwaukee), so what is the upside for us? The Bucks risk a lot for not much gain and Orlando risks absolutely nothing. JJ Redick's prime? What is that? 16 ppg on a the 2nd to worst team in the league and ??? on the most mediocre team? Color me unimpressed. What is the realistic direction of this team? I think there is a decent chance Tobias Harris become a more than competent NBA player and if that happens this trade becomes that much more lopsided. I think if we sign Redick to the 10m a year that he wants, we'll be on this trade board a year or two from now looking to dump him because our team is going nowhere.
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Post#34 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:36 pm by FireNellieQuick

SEBAS-07 wrote:
I guess Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill were not big free agents signings. I would like to read the big Warriors signings.


I must have confused Orlando with that other team that lost a big name FA to be really recently.

I'm not bragging, it is what it is. Congrats on having the whole state tax benefit and all, but if that's a concern, why wouldnt stars go to Miami?

Even though that argument is about 2.5 years too late..
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Post#35 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:47 pm by FireNellieQuick

JayMKE wrote:There is no way Orlando lost the trade, they got some decent assets for a guy they weren't going to resign, it can only get better for them.


They lost it because Redick is worth more than a long term prospect, or should be. But they waited until now to get a deal done, and because of that, lost value. A good salvage doesn't make it a good deal.

What does this accomplish for the Bucks? We're not making it out of the 1st round this year and we're going to have to spend a lot of money on Redick to retain him(he isn't taking a discount to stay in Milwaukee), so what is the upside for us? The Bucks risk a lot for not much gain and Orlando risks absolutely nothing. JJ Redick's prime? What is that? 16 ppg on a the 2nd to worst team in the league and ??? on the most mediocre team? Color me unimpressed. What is the realistic direction of this team? I think there is a decent chance Tobias Harris become a more than competent NBA player and if that happens this trade becomes that much more lopsided. I think if we sign Redick to the 10m a year that he wants, we'll be on this trade board a year or two from now looking to dump him because our team is going nowhere.


No arguments on the team's prospects this year, but you are forgetting that you have a lot of momentum to retain Redick now with the new CBA. The main two reasons being a 5th year, and a 7.5% increase rate vs. a 4.5 increase rate from the rest of the NBA. Tobias Harris, no matter how optimistic you are about youth / pessimistic about everything else Bucks related, isn't a lot. He's a long-term prospect at best.

Redick, btw, is not only putting up those solid #s, he's doing it with ruthless efficiency, something you guys sorely need. .590+ TS% is not something to overlook.

The direction of the team is trickier. I know every middle of the road team wants to blow it up and try and get a #1 pick, trying to be OKC. But the Bucks 'assets' just dont have enough value right now to justify shopping for younger talent. Hell, they are closer to a rebuild than a retool right now. Excellent long-term prospects in Jennings-Henson-Sanders. But you need stabilizing presences to get them playing the right way, and Redick's been in the playoffs quite a bit, and been good at it. Blaming him for the Magic's rebuild isn't really fair, as he and Afflalo are really the two best players they have. That's never good. For Milwaukee, he'll likely be 4th. That puts him in a great position to fly under the radar enough to get good looks, but doesn't over-use him and curb his efficiency.

Get back at me when you've signed him to a 4 year deal for less than 10m per... and take a mental note of Jennings' efficiency ratings right now (basketball-reference.com would be a good one) and see JJ's effect on that for the rest of the year.
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Post#36 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:38 pm by JayMKE

FireNellieQuick wrote:They lost it because Redick is worth more than a long term prospect, or should be. But they waited until now to get a deal done, and because of that, lost value. A good salvage doesn't make it a good deal.

No arguments on the team's prospects this year, but you are forgetting that you have a lot of momentum to retain Redick now with the new CBA. The main two reasons being a 5th year, and a 7.5% increase rate vs. a 4.5 increase rate from the rest of the NBA. Tobias Harris, no matter how optimistic you are about youth / pessimistic about everything else Bucks related, isn't a lot. He's a long-term prospect at best.

Redick, btw, is not only putting up those solid #s, he's doing it with ruthless efficiency, something you guys sorely need. .590+ TS% is not something to overlook.

The direction of the team is trickier. I know every middle of the road team wants to blow it up and try and get a #1 pick, trying to be OKC. But the Bucks 'assets' just dont have enough value right now to justify shopping for younger talent. Hell, they are closer to a rebuild than a retool right now. Excellent long-term prospects in Jennings-Henson-Sanders. But you need stabilizing presences to get them playing the right way, and Redick's been in the playoffs quite a bit, and been good at it. Blaming him for the Magic's rebuild isn't really fair, as he and Afflalo are really the two best players they have. That's never good. For Milwaukee, he'll likely be 4th. That puts him in a great position to fly under the radar enough to get good looks, but doesn't over-use him and curb his efficiency.

Get back at me when you've signed him to a 4 year deal for less than 10m per... and take a mental note of Jennings' efficiency ratings right now (basketball-reference.com would be a good one) and see JJ's effect on that for the rest of the year.


Worth a lot more than a long term prospect? I'm not sure what you mean. Orlando obviously is rebuilding and wanted young players. They got a deal that fits the direction they want to go in. Redick isn't a superstar, I'm not sure how much more you guys thought you were going get for the guy. I get that some fanbases have weird special attachments to certain players but unfortunately sentimental value isn't factored into trade value.

Also, they did get more than "just a long term prospect", they also go Beno Udrih who should be be able to fill about 90% of the role of JJ Redick had if that's what they want. Beno put up some pretty efficient numbers on some terrible Sacramento teams before coming to Milwaukee.

I get the feeling that most Magic fans wanted a draft pick and don't know much about Tobias Harris but Tobias is younger and has more potential than pretty much anyone they could possibly take in the latter half of this years draft. Plus a flier on Doron Lamb, our 2nd round pick this year who was a decent player at Kentucky.

As for the Bucks having the advantage in resigning Redick, do we really want to? Signing him until he's 34 with 7.5% pay raises doesn't seem like a good deal for us long term, a mediocre team that should be rebuilding shouldn't be spending big money on non building block pieces especially a 6th man like Redick. It will be interesting to see how Jennings plays next to a more efficient player but that's a reflection of Jennings not Redick. It's just a bad deal for the Bucks, JJ makes sense for a team like the Spurs or even the Pacers that are right on the edge of doing something great. The Bucks version of doing something great is locking up the 8th seed.
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Post#37 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:51 pm by FireNellieQuick

I'm a Warriors fan, and I only really follow the Bucks at all because of Henson. I just think that fans of the league are way too enamored with athleticism and superstardom, and forget that fundamentals and efficiency win too. Redick just being slightly more the latter than the former :D

Udrih isn't bad either, which is why I'm sure that the Bucks didnt acquire Redick just to watch him walk.

Tobias has a sharp lack of BBIQ, IMO, and is a long ways away from being a solid player. The potential is there and he's young, but there's not enough real upside there to consider him anything but a fringe prospect. My feelings on Lamb are set in stone - bad.

I should clarify: when I stated the 2 advantages, I dont think they'll be used in tandem. And in the unlikely event they are, it wouldnt be for a 10m per deal. But those 2 large advantages should be noted and point to Milwaukee keeping Redick.

As far as Jennings/Redick go, the impact an efficient, floor-spacing shooter in this league is extremely evident. It's why guys like Steve Novak, Kyle Korver, and Matt Bonner have jobs. And then you look at the advanced stats, and you see why they are so valuable - spreading the floor while being lights out shooters. Guys like Curry, and to a lesser extent Redick, are extremely valuable for that same reason. Their cup runneth over in terms of efficiency. Because they can not only shoot the ball like crazy, but they can also handle well enough to keep them on court longer.

If Redick therefore increases the value of Jennings, and you guys do decide to rebuild, you'd have a young kinda-star PG to deal, and a super-efficient PG/SG that can be dealt to a contender, to build around younger assets like Henson and Sanders. And if you do it right, you won't wait until the trade deadline on their expiring contracts and get less value than you should
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Post#38 Re: Official: Redick to Bucks
Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:50 am by JayMKE

Tobes goes 14-6-3 in his first game
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