ORL-CAVS

[jbk1234]

Im shocked to see this "idea" has made it to 3 pages, but I guess I'll add on to it to say how lopsided the value is. I honestly thought it was a joke offer when I first read it. The Cavs say no on this, without even a second thought.

I honestly dont get it, Are pepole overating this draft thinking there are much better options than Harris? are they underating Harris because of his team record?
Does anyone think the cavs are going to get another top pick next year or that Afflalo isnt earning his contract? what is it that isnt fair about this trade?

Okay this draft is terrible. We will trade you Zeller for the No. 2 overall.

[j_n]

Okay this draft is terrible. We will trade you Zeller for the No. 2 overall.

Did Zeller put up 17.5/8.4 with 1.5 blocks and 1 steal as a 20 year old sophmore?

[jbk1234]

Okay this draft is terrible. We will trade you Zeller for the No. 2 overall.

Did Zeller put up 17.5/8.4 with 1.5 blocks and 1 steal as a 20 year old sophmore?

Well Zeller was a rookie so no. Not for nothing, but Harris didn't put up those numbers for his entire sophmore season. Those are his post trade stats.

[bgrep14]

ttobias harris is better than anyone in this draft ? he doesnt even start on the second worst team in the nba... easy no for the cavs ...

[NashtyNas]

Okay this draft is terrible. We will trade you Zeller for the No. 2 overall.

Did Zeller put up 17.5/8.4 with 1.5 blocks and 1 steal as a 20 year old sophmore?

Did Harris? No, he did that for like 20 games - that doesn't make him worth the #1 all of a sudden. If you think this draft is so weak, and Harris is so good, why are you willing to trade him for #1? I mean if McLemore or any of the other prospects you named aren't as good as Harris - just keep Harris; more importantly, keep him because no one is trading you what you expect in return for him. We're not agreeing to disagree - we're agreeing that your valuation of your players is ridiculous - everyone other than a few ORL fans agrees with that so you can keep Harris and the rest of the teams will keep their ACTUAL valuable pieces.

I for one know that I would waaaaay rather take a gamble on McLemore or Noel than go for the "sure thing" in Harris (and him being a "sure thing" is debatable to say the least).

[TheOUTLAW]

No point in getting testy over this, neither team thinks they are getting the value for their assets that they'd want. So that's a no deal from both sides.

[Ducklett]

In the month of April:

Dion Waiters: 13.5 Points, 2.5 Rebounds, 2.5 Assists on ~43% shooting

Tobias Harris: 19.8 Points, 9.8 Rebounds, 3.4 Assists, 1.4 Blocks on 44% shooting

Yeah, Tobes couldn't hold Waiter's jock strap for sure. (Eye roll)

People on these boards are just plain moronic.

Harris stat padded playing only 8 games with 40+ MPG while Waiters played 4 games with 22 MPG.

Lets not even bring up the other 6 months where Waiters takes a big dump on Harris stats.

Harris hasn't proven anything but he can put up decent chucker stats on a bad team playing 40 MPG. VERY limited upside unlike Waiters who has upside to be a TOP 5 SG.

The Cavs were equally terrible and this guy couldn't get minutes... Great talk dude. After his trade to the Magic, he got minutes, and put up some pretty incredible numbers playing out of his nature position. Waiters could barely stay on the floor, but I guess that is because he is a such a great, future HOF player and Byron Scott had no idea what he was doing. I bet that is why he was fired!

[ZCM93]

Yes Scott had no clue how to coach I agree, Waiters playing limited minutes was a good call since we needed to lose every game we could, which worked out see has we landed the #1 pick. While the Magic blew it by letting Harris chuck up a storm for 40 minutes a night in meaningless games.

[BadWolf]

Found this from wizenheimer in another thread

go back to Synergy and run a comparison between Matthews and Waiters. On offense, Matthews ranked 39th in the NBA with 1.02 points/possession. Waiters ranked 309th with 0.85 points/possession. On defense, Matthews ranked 87th allowing 0.82 points/possession. Waiters gave up 1.06 points/possession which ranked 446th in the league. That's right, 446. 30 teams...15 players....that's 450. Waiters almost made it to 450...

[MagicFan32]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

[MagicFan32]

He might have more impact short term, but he's still not worth our first rounders. It's not like Orlando is movie first rounders and don't act as though these are big impact players or they'd have made more of an impact on Orlando. These guys are mediocre after 2 yrs. Don't see that changing.

harris is 20 years old!!!!

[Mr Loggins]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

I'm not going to say for sure Harris will be good or bad; just (imo) the #1 overall is a lot of value for a guy who had a three week hot stretch.....

[j_n]

I'm not going to say for sure Harris will be good or bad; just (imo) the #1 overall is a lot of value for a guy who had a three week hot stretch.....

Tobias Harris played for Orlando for 2 months and 27 games(NBA level).
Nerlens Noel,who seem like a very possible #1 pick in this draft played 24 games in NCAA level.

If you want to argue that Harris havent played in a high enough level or doesnt have much upside, fine, but there are plenty of teams that used their #1 overall for players who have shown much less than a 27 game stretch in the NBA, including players who never even played an NCAA game.

[Mr Loggins]

I'm not going to say for sure Harris will be good or bad; just (imo) the #1 overall is a lot of value for a guy who had a three week hot stretch.....

Tobias Harris played for Orlando for 2 months and 27 games(NBA level).
Nerlens Noel,who seem like a very possible #1 pick in this draft played 24 games in NCAA level.

If you want to argue that Harris havent played in a high enough level or doesnt have much upside, fine, but there are plenty of teams that used their #1 overall for players who have shown much less than a 27 game stretch in the NBA, including players who never even played an NCAA game.

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" here, but magic fans quote the numbers "17, 8, 1.5" as the reason why Harris is so valuable - numbers that on a superficial glance largely come upon his last 14 or so games.

Your comparison to ncaa players is apples to oranges.

[j_n]

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" here, but magic fans quote the numbers "17, 8, 1.5" as the reason why Harris is so valuable - numbers that on a superficial glance largely come upon his last 14 or so games.


Your comparison to ncaa players is an apples to oranges comparison.

Sooo, should we ignore his better games when posting his stats?
Thats what he put up since he came to Orlando, if I didnt realize it was too small of a sample size I would say that in his last two weeks he put up 20/10 but I posted his numbers since he came to Orlando.

As far as the NCAA and the NBA, I agree, I was just making a point that whenever you use your draft pick on any prospect there is a risk and a lot of unknowns but in Harris' case the risk and uncertainty are minimal because he already showed that he can play at high level in the NBA as opposed to the prospects in this draft.

[jbk1234]

Found this from wizenheimer in another thread

go back to Synergy and run a comparison between Matthews and Waiters. On offense, Matthews ranked 39th in the NBA with 1.02 points/possession. Waiters ranked 309th with 0.85 points/possession. On defense, Matthews ranked 87th allowing 0.82 points/possession. Waiters gave up 1.06 points/possession which ranked 446th in the league. That's right, 446. 30 teams...15 players....that's 450. Waiters almost made it to 450...

Digging pretty deep there for a rationalization as to how Matthews and Waiters are comparable players. You can keep Matthews and your selective use of statistics, I'll keep Waiters and what my eyes tell me when he is playing the game.

[jbk1234]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

That is quote worth saving for 8 months from now.

[MagicFan32]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

I'm not going to say for sure Harris will be good or bad; just (imo) the #1 overall is a lot of value for a guy who had a three week hot stretch.....

after the all star break he averaged 17 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2 assists 1.5 blocks and 1 steal. in his first extended minutes as a starter ever.....and he's younger than alot of players in this draft

[MagicFan32]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

That is quote worth saving for 8 months from now.

please bump it when he's putting up 18 and 10

[jbk1234]

no thanks, tobias harris is better than any player in this draft, he'd immediately become one of clevelands top 3 players. funny to see them poo-poo this tho lol

That is quote worth saving for 8 months from now.

please bump it when he's putting up 18 and 10

o

Tobias Harris might be better than the guy the Cavs select. That is the risk of the draft. But to say that Tobias Harris is better than any player in this draft means that not one all-star will come out of this draft. That seems beyond unlikely.