Bynum, Waiters and Cavs #1 for Kanter,Jefferson and GSW #1?

[sterncohen]

Jefferson to Cleveland saves Cleveland $11 million right before the 2014 draft and right before LeBron's free agency.

LeBron can make about $20 million next season, per the CBA.

Anderson Varejao comes off the books at $9.1 million.

Jefferson for Bynum straight up gives Cleveland the exact amount of cap space that LeBron James will take up on a roster next season.

Hhhhmmmm....

Bynum can be waived before January 6, at which point Cleveland will be completely free of obligations to him, and will owe him only $6M total for this year. So acquiring Jefferson means that they spend an extra $5M this year. On Richard Jefferson.

[loserX]

Don't see either team wanting, or needing, to give up on any young players at this point. Bynum for Jefferson straight up makes more sense; Utah saves money and Cleveland gets some kind of NBA help without sacrificing any other assets (which most other rumours seem to require of them).

[BossHoggin]

You know that a team is in really, really bad shape when they are reported as "targeting Richard Jefferson" and people respond by trying to make the deal work rather than assuming the reporter was drunk.

These days people on RealGM believe any rumor.

[BossHoggin]

Jefferson to Cleveland saves Cleveland $11 million right before the 2014 draft and right before LeBron's free agency.

LeBron can make about $20 million next season, per the CBA.

Anderson Varejao comes off the books at $9.1 million.

Jefferson for Bynum straight up gives Cleveland the exact amount of cap space that LeBron James will take up on a roster next season.

Hhhhmmmm....

How do people still not know any details regarding Bynum's contract?

[Trader_Joe]

I wouldn't trade Kanter for Waiters, too much potential. I can also see why they wouldn't do the other way around, especially with that pick swap.

I wouldn't either.
Talent-wise they seem relatively close, but Waiters would probably be a malcontent in Utah while Kanter has seemingly remained a professional with all the shuffling in and out of the lineup. Plus with Burke, Burks and Hayward I don't see the need.

[tranjSAIC]

Put me in the group who would rather have Kanter than Waiters. Waiters has an OK game, but I hate the baggage he comes with. I would still rather have the potential of Kanter then Waiter and his potential.

[BadWolf]

waiters is redundant in utah as he'd just bring the logjam at guard position
kanter probably still has more value then waiters, certainly not way less and could actually fill a need in Cleveland
bynum, waiters, pick or bennett for kanter, jefferson, burks? Not sure what jazz think about Burks, some love hate relationship as usual with their players.

Gives Jazz Burke, Waiters, Hayward, Marvin, Favors lineup, then i guess they go fo Randle in draft
Cavs are Kyrie, Burks, Jefferson, Thompson, Kanter with Varejao as sixth man

[Winglish]

How do people still not know any details regarding Bynum's contract?

The same way people do not understand how trading that contract gives Cleveland a TPE, while cutting him does not. Cleveland's ability to sign a real player and make future trades would be astronomically enhanced.

Utah got a similarly sized TPE a few years ago from the Carlos Boozer trade. You know what they got in exchange for the TPE? Al Jefferson.

[jbk1234]

While acknowledging that it takes longer to develop bigs than guards, and the fact that I'm a Cavs fan, I am astonished by the people who are claiming that Kanter has more potential than Waiters. This is Kanter's third year in the league and he is bad. There is no way to sugar coat it. He's not a good center right now. Some of the same people who would be willing to write off Bennett as a bust (after 35 games), are still banking on potential from someone who hasn't shown anything in three years. I wouldn't trade Zeller for Kanter. This is before you get to the draft pick swap which is just insane. This trade would be horrible for the Cavs.

[BossHoggin]

How do people still not know any details regarding Bynum's contract?

The same way people do not understand how trading that contract gives Cleveland a TPE, while cutting him does not. Cleveland's ability to sign a real player and make future trades would be astronomically enhanced.

Utah got a similarly sized TPE a few years ago from the Carlos Boozer trade. You know what they got in exchange for the TPE? Al Jefferson.

How exactly is trading Bynum for Jefferson going to create a fantastic TPE greater than Cleveland's cap space this off season? And Cleveland had a nice TPE when LeBron left, did wonders for the franchise...

And Jefferson is your example of this working, you do know who ran Minnesota during those times? Bad example.

[BossHoggin]

While acknowledging that it takes longer to develop bigs than guards, and the fact that I'm a Cavs fan, I am astonished by the people who are claiming that Kanter has more potential than Waiters. This is Kanter's third year in the league and he is bad. There is no way to sugar coat it. He's not a good center right now. Some of the same people who would be willing to write off Bennett as a bust (after 35 games), are still banking on potential from someone who hasn't shown anything in three years. I wouldn't trade Zeller for Kanter. This is before you get to the draft pick swap which is just insane. This trade would be horrible for the Cavs.

I love the thread on the GB where everyone is okay with Kanter's slump yet there is another thread with everyone hating on Bennett.

You are allowed time to develop, unless you're a Cavalier.

[microfib4thewin]

I don't see why the Cavs should give up their draft position unless it's a slam dunk deal, and swapping Waiters for Kanter isn't one.

[Dupp]

^^^ Spot on

How do people still not know any details regarding Bynum's contract?

The same way people do not understand how trading that contract gives Cleveland a TPE, while cutting him does not. Cleveland's ability to sign a real player and make future trades would be astronomically enhanced.

Utah got a similarly sized TPE a few years ago from the Carlos Boozer trade. You know what they got in exchange for the TPE? Al Jefferson.

I actually didn't know about this could you explain it to me? As in how much and why we get it?

[jbk1234]

While acknowledging that it takes longer to develop bigs than guards, and the fact that I'm a Cavs fan, I am astonished by the people who are claiming that Kanter has more potential than Waiters. This is Kanter's third year in the league and he is bad. There is no way to sugar coat it. He's not a good center right now. Some of the same people who would be willing to write off Bennett as a bust (after 35 games), are still banking on potential from someone who hasn't shown anything in three years. I wouldn't trade Zeller for Kanter. This is before you get to the draft pick swap which is just insane. This trade would be horrible for the Cavs.

I love the thread on the GB where everyone is okay with Kanter's slump yet there is another thread with everyone hating on Bennett.

You are allowed time to develop, unless you're a Cavalier.

Once the narrative has developed, people tend to view the evidence through that prism. That said, Kanter isn't like Favors. I see flashes with Favors that make me say - wait this guy may be a beast one day. I see none of that from Kanter.

[BadWolf]

While acknowledging that it takes longer to develop bigs than guards, and the fact that I'm a Cavs fan, I am astonished by the people who are claiming that Kanter has more potential than Waiters. This is Kanter's third year in the league and he is bad. There is no way to sugar coat it. He's not a good center right now. Some of the same people who would be willing to write off Bennett as a bust (after 35 games), are still banking on potential from someone who hasn't shown anything in three years. I wouldn't trade Zeller for Kanter. This is before you get to the draft pick swap which is just insane. This trade would be horrible for the Cavs.

I love the thread on the GB where everyone is okay with Kanter's slump yet there is another thread with everyone hating on Bennett.

You are allowed time to develop, unless you're a Cavalier.

waiters is older then kanter and played in more games in his life as kanter didn't play in college and they play similar minutes in nba
kanter has higher per and win shares, waiters, an offensive sparkplu, has negative OWS
kanter, surprisingly is more efficient then waiters (while sitting at 47%fg)
they score about the same per36 (2 point advantage for waiters)
so why exactly do you think he has more potential and ios better right now?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

[jbk1234]

While acknowledging that it takes longer to develop bigs than guards, and the fact that I'm a Cavs fan, I am astonished by the people who are claiming that Kanter has more potential than Waiters. This is Kanter's third year in the league and he is bad. There is no way to sugar coat it. He's not a good center right now. Some of the same people who would be willing to write off Bennett as a bust (after 35 games), are still banking on potential from someone who hasn't shown anything in three years. I wouldn't trade Zeller for Kanter. This is before you get to the draft pick swap which is just insane. This trade would be horrible for the Cavs.

I love the thread on the GB where everyone is okay with Kanter's slump yet there is another thread with everyone hating on Bennett.

You are allowed time to develop, unless you're a Cavalier.

waiters is older then kanter and played in more games in his life as kanter didn't play in college and they play similar minutes in nba
kanter has higher per and win shares, waiters, an offensive sparkplu, has negative OWS
kanter, surprisingly is more efficient then waiters (while sitting at 47%fg)
they score about the same per36 (2 point advantage for waiters)
so why exactly do you think he has more potential and ios better right now?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

Kanter has another year of experience in the NBA. Kanter is a center. His PER and FG% better be better than a shoot guard. He is averaging 11 ppg and 6 rpg as a starter in 26 mpg. His defense is bad. If he wasn't playing for a tanking team, he'd be back on the bench. His ceiling appears to be as a back up right now.

[BadWolf]

you can use the same arguments to prove Kanter is better
Waiters played more, waiters is bad as a starter or backup
he's averaging 14 ppg on bad efficiency with green light to shoot
his defense is bad
If he wasn't playing for a tanking team, he'd be back on the bench ... or he is
he's ceiling apperas to be a backup now

they're similar prospects, but I'd go with big over small

[jbk1234]

you can use the same arguments to prove Kanter is better
Waiters played more, waiters is bad as a starter or backup
he's averaging 14 ppg on bad efficiency with green light to shoot
his defense is bad
If he wasn't playing for a tanking team, he'd be back on the bench ... or he is
he's ceiling apperas to be a backup now

they're similar prospects, but I'd go with big over small

"You could use the same arguments to prove Kanter is better." You could but you'd be wrong. Kanter isn't better. It's not even close. I can't wait to play the Jazz.

[Winglish]

I actually didn't know about this could you explain it to me? As in how much and why we get it?

Think of it as you would a spending credit at a store when they don't refund your money, but instead offer you credit in the amount of the merchandise you returned, plus a bonus gift certificate that you get for free.

It's complex, but it boils down to Utah has cap space to spare. The trade value between Utah and a team it trades with does not have to be equal. In other words, Utah can make trades that don't work on the trade machine. Cleveland would get a trade credit for the amount of money contracted to Andrew Bynum that is above and beyond what is contracted to Richard Jefferson. The amount of the credit is actually 125-150% of the trade difference, plus $100,000 (depending on the scenario).

Cleveland would then be able to go over the salary cap sometime in the next two seasons by several million dollars without having to pay the luxury tax. This would allow Cleveland to bring in a higher quality player than they otherwise could do. Essentially Cleveland could sign something like a $9 million dollar player for the price of a $6 million dollar guy. Or they could trade the TPE to another team (as Utah did to get Al Jefferson).

[jbk1234]

I actually didn't know about this could you explain it to me? As in how much and why we get it?

Think of it as you would a spending credit at a store when they don't refund your money, but instead offer you credit in the amount of the merchandise you returned, plus a bonus gift certificate that you get for free.

It's complex, but it boils down to Utah has cap space to spare. The trade value between Utah and a team it trades with does not have to be equal. In other words, Utah can make trades that don't work on the trade machine. Cleveland would get a trade credit for the amount of money contracted to Andrew Bynum that is above and beyond what is contracted to Richard Jefferson. The amount of the credit is actually 125-150% of the trade difference, plus $100,000 (depending on the scenario).

Cleveland would then be able to go over the salary cap sometime in the next two seasons by several million dollars without having to pay the luxury tax. This would allow Cleveland to bring in a higher quality player than they otherwise could do. Essentially Cleveland could sign something like a $9 million dollar player for the price of a $6 million dollar guy. Or they could trade the TPE to another team (as Utah did to get Al Jefferson).

Bynum's contract is $12.5 million. Jefferson's is $11 million. Edit: Cleveland would get the TPE but it would only be $1.5 million.