Vucevic on your Team

[rugbyrugger23]

Adams + Perkins + Sef for Vucevic + Afflalo + 1 filler. OKC throws in some first round picks.

OKC pairs Vucevic with Ibaka and gets Afflalo for playoff push.

Adams gives Magic a young C to go with their rookie reload. Magic shave a year off Afflalo contract in Perk who expires when Davis does too. Plus more 1st round picks to move around in '14 draft.

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[jjohns828]

Adams + Perkins + Sef for Vucevic + Afflalo + 1 filler. OKC throws in some first round picks.

OKC pairs Vucevic with Ibaka and gets Afflalo for playoff push.

Adams gives Magic a young C to go with their rookie reload. Magic shave a year off Afflalo contract in Perk who expires when Davis does too. Plus more 1st round picks to move around in '14 draft.

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

I'm sorry but there is no way the Magic would trade Vucevic & Afflalo and take on the dead weight that is Perkins and only get back Adams a very late 1st and an expiring contract. Even if you think Afflalo is only a non negative, which is ridiculous, Perkins is a big negative and Sef is at best a non negative for a non contending team and a very late 1st isn't enough to close that value gap.

To put it simply if you believe Vucevic = Adams in terms of value, which I disagree with but we'll go with it for now, Afflalo is worth more than Sef, & a very late 1st and that's not even getting into what incentive that Magic would need to take on the big negative that is Perkins.

[rugbyrugger23]

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

I'm sorry but there is no way the Magic would trade Vucevic & Afflalo and take on the dead weight that is Perkins and only get back Adams a very late 1st and an expiring contract. Even if you think Afflalo is only a non negative, which is ridiculous, Perkins is a big negative and Sef is at best a non negative for a non contending team and a very late 1st isn't enough to close that value gap.

To put it simply if you believe Vucevic = Adams in terms of value, which I disagree with but we'll go with it for now, Afflalo is worth more than Sef, & a very late 1st and that's not even getting into what incentive that Magic would need to take on the big negative that is Perkins.

Well to be precise, the way I worded the trade, was to make the value more even, here is how I would exactly see it going down:

Perkins + Sef (exp) + Adams + Dallas 1st Owed + OKC '14 1st traded for Afflalo + Vucevic + Who ever Magic want to unload/dead weight (Maxiell?, Nicholson?)

That to me is fair for 1) What Magic are trying to accomplish (youth and picks package) 2) What OKC is willing to pay for a more win-now team.

[Mykhyn]

Adams + Perkins + Sef for Vucevic + Afflalo + 1 filler. OKC throws in some first round picks.

OKC pairs Vucevic with Ibaka and gets Afflalo for playoff push.

Adams gives Magic a young C to go with their rookie reload. Magic shave a year off Afflalo contract in Perk who expires when Davis does too. Plus more 1st round picks to move around in '14 draft.

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Sure looks like you're trying to convince yourself.

If you keep telling yourself that maybe you'll believe it.

Your proposed trade is hideous.

Saying Afflalo "may" not be negative now is downright laughable.

[jjohns828]

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

I'm sorry but there is no way the Magic would trade Vucevic & Afflalo and take on the dead weight that is Perkins and only get back Adams a very late 1st and an expiring contract. Even if you think Afflalo is only a non negative, which is ridiculous, Perkins is a big negative and Sef is at best a non negative for a non contending team and a very late 1st isn't enough to close that value gap.

To put it simply if you believe Vucevic = Adams in terms of value, which I disagree with but we'll go with it for now, Afflalo is worth more than Sef, & a very late 1st and that's not even getting into what incentive that Magic would need to take on the big negative that is Perkins.

Well to be precise, the way I worded the trade, was to make the value more even, here is how I would exactly see it going down:

Perkins + Sef (exp) + Adams + Dallas 1st Owed + OKC '14 1st traded for Afflalo + Vucevic + Who ever Magic want to unload/dead weight (Maxiell?, Nicholson?)

That to me is fair for 1) What Magic are trying to accomplish (youth and picks package) 2) What OKC is willing to pay for a more win-now team.

I think I'd rather extend Vucevic and see what Afflalo can get on his own then take that trade. The Dallas pick at best would be the 21st in the draft, due to protections, which would be a mediocre pick even in a deep draft and the OKC pick would be one of the last 1st round picks which means it would be basically a 2nd round talent on a guaranteed contract, no thank you.

[tiderulz]

Adams + Perkins + Sef for Vucevic + Afflalo + 1 filler. OKC throws in some first round picks.

OKC pairs Vucevic with Ibaka and gets Afflalo for playoff push.

Adams gives Magic a young C to go with their rookie reload. Magic shave a year off Afflalo contract in Perk who expires when Davis does too. Plus more 1st round picks to move around in '14 draft.

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.

do a little more research. The overall numbers spiked because of him being a #1 option, his efficiency numbers are right on par though with his career. he has actually increased his assists and rebounds though. And c'mon now, 2.5 years at $7.5mil per year is the opposite of negative. He isnt going to be 39, he is still in his 20's right now.

[rugbyrugger23]

This is bad on so many levels

Both Afflalo and Vucevic are worth more than this package.

Afflalo's contract isn't negative, Perkins' is.

Sef is a negative for Orlando.

"some" 1st round picks would have to be like 5 since they'd all be 28-30 picks.

Afflalo's play this year has MAYBE elevated his contract to non negative. But 2.5 years for a player who will be 30+ at end is hard to ignore. Add in, any smart GM knows the spike in numbers is due to being Alpha dog on bad team...a Big fish in a little pond. What happens to his numbers/production on winning team, like OKC, which delicates him to third/fourth option? No talented/stacked team is going to pay premium for Afflalo and his contract. And no young/rebuilding team is going to want his age or contract.

Adams play this year may not make him equal value to Vuc...but close. Add in Adams full rookie deal vs a player close to a pay day, and the value gap closes.

And how is Sef a negative for Orlando? Playoff experienced SG who has years of winning knowledge on expiring contract...not bad next to Oladipo.

OKC does this trade cause Vuc is a few years ahead of Adams in development/production and they are a win now team. Afflalo helps them with that too.

do a little more research. The overall numbers spiked because of him being a #1 option, his efficiency numbers are right on par though with his career. he has actually increased his assists and rebounds though. And c'mon now, 2.5 years at $7.5mil per year is the opposite of negative. He isnt going to be 39, he is still in his 20's right now.

That's exactly what I said. His numbers/production has spiked this year due to being #1 option/Alpha dog. On a stacked team, as 3rd/4th option, his 7.5mil per year (at ages 28, 29, 30) is hard to justify premium value (worth sending out a premium trade piece(s)).

[tiderulz]

compare him around the league, he is a darn good value at his price. solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy.

[MNRunLeft]

Rugby's trade is trash. Afflalo would be a strong addition to any of the contenders as a start or reserve role, his contract is fair and he's played above it. Find it hard to fathom someone can knock his contract but ship out the waste of $ that is Perkins in the same deal.

Afflalo > Thabo - Better players offensive player, both strong defenders, Afflalo is the younger player and is signed to fair contract.
Vucevic > Adams - Adams is cheaper, but I don't see him reaching Vuc's currently level of play in the next couple of years, maybe ever.
Nothing >> Perkins

Dallas pick has value but the OKC pick is in the 30's if this deal goes down an has minimal value.

[rugbyrugger23]

Rugby's trade is trash. Afflalo would be a strong addition to any of the contenders as a start or reserve role, his contract is fair and he's played above it. Find it hard to fathom someone can knock his contract but ship out the waste of $ that is Perkins in the same deal.

Afflalo > Thabo - Better players offensive player, both strong defenders, Afflalo is the younger player and is signed to fair contract.
Vucevic > Adams - Adams is cheaper, but I don't see him reaching Vuc's currently level of play in the next couple of years, maybe ever.
Maxiell > Perkins

Dallas pick has value but the OKC pick is in the 30's if this deal goes down an has minimal value.

Corrected your breakdown. And all of those are very close value to value. If 2 1sts, at any spot in draft, isn't enough to tip the scale, so be it. OKC wouldn't give more.

Not saying Magic couldn't get more for Afflalo...just not from OKC or any team that would put him 3rd/4th in the pecking order, is going to relinquish premium trade pieces. Yes, as you say is true in a vacuum: Afflalo would be a strong addition to any of the contenders as a start or reserve role, his contract is fair and he's played above it.. But Afflalo doesn't come free in trade. If OKC, or any contender, could have him for free, they would (based on production and contract), but to trade premium youth and/or picks for his age and contract, not happening.

[rugbyrugger23]

compare him around the league, he is a darn good value at his price. solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy.

Never said that his current value in current situation wasn't "darn good"...and I am sure he is "solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy."

But on a contender (new situation), who would have to trade youth and picks to land him in trade, his age and contract is now not as value. Cause his production lowers (now that he is small fish in big pond) and outgoing value is/was cheaper and younger.

[jjohns828]

Rugby's trade is trash. Afflalo would be a strong addition to any of the contenders as a start or reserve role, his contract is fair and he's played above it. Find it hard to fathom someone can knock his contract but ship out the waste of $ that is Perkins in the same deal.

Afflalo > Thabo - Better players offensive player, both strong defenders, Afflalo is the younger player and is signed to fair contract.
Vucevic > Adams - Adams is cheaper, but I don't see him reaching Vuc's currently level of play in the next couple of years, maybe ever.
Maxiell > Perkins

Dallas pick has value but the OKC pick is in the 30's if this deal goes down an has minimal value.

Corrected your breakdown. And all of those are very close value to value. If 2 1sts, at any spot in draft, isn't enough to tip the scale, so be it. OKC wouldn't give more.

Not saying Magic couldn't get more for Afflalo...just not from OKC or any team that would put him 3rd/4th in the pecking order, is going to relinquish premium trade pieces. Yes, as you say is true in a vacuum: Afflalo would be a strong addition to any of the contenders as a start or reserve role, his contract is fair and he's played above it.. But Afflalo doesn't come free in trade. If OKC, or any contender, could have him for free, they would (based on production and contract), but to trade premium youth and/or picks for his age and contract, not happening.

If your right, which I don't think you are, the Magic would be better off extending Vucevic and seeing what Afflalo could get on his own. The Magic are already going to be getting their lottery pick this year and another that is likely to be in the lottery. So a mediocre pick in the 20's and a pick that's likely to be one of the last in the first round is not worth downgrading from Vucevic to Adams, from Afflalo to Thabo, and taking on Perkins for whatever filler was decided even if it was the only real bad contract we have in Glen Davis.

[tiderulz]

compare him around the league, he is a darn good value at his price. solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy.

Never said that his current value in current situation wasn't "darn good"...and I am sure he is "solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy."

But on a contender (new situation), who would have to trade youth and picks to land him in trade, his age and contract is now not as value. Cause his production lowers (now that he is small fish in big pond) and outgoing value is/was cheaper and younger.

AA moving to a contender wont lower his stats that much. It isnt like he is shooting 20 shots a game right now with everyone else under 10. on OKC, even Reggie Jackson and Ibaka are over 11 shots a game.

[rugbyrugger23]

compare him around the league, he is a darn good value at his price. solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy.

Never said that his current value in current situation wasn't "darn good"...and I am sure he is "solid 2-way player, no ego, unselfish, good locker room guy."

But on a contender (new situation), who would have to trade youth and picks to land him in trade, his age and contract is now not as value. Cause his production lowers (now that he is small fish in big pond) and outgoing value is/was cheaper and younger.

AA moving to a contender wont lower his stats that much. It isnt like he is shooting 20 shots a game right now with everyone else under 10. on OKC, even Reggie Jackson and Ibaka are over 11 shots a game.

Not sure I agree with that. I think he would revert back to the 12-15ppg, 3ast, 3reb player he was in similar situation in Denver. Again not bad at 7.5mil per year, but not a steal for Sef expiring/production and picks (from OKC point-of-view).