If Magic Land Top 3 Pick...

[jayjaysee]

not happening. trading arguable top-10 center, plus lottery pick (albeit higher) for a complete unknown in Exum and taking on Wallace's salary. no thanks.

haha, what?

I would do anything possible to get two top 5 picks in this draft. Embiid and Exum are two of the top 3 players in the draft IMO (with Wiggins there as the third). I would trade everything but the kitchen sink for a chance to do that, and neither a late-lotto pick or Vucevic is the kitchen sink. Cap space likely isn't an issue for the Magic, who are building their roster almost 100% through the draft, so one year of Gerald Wallace shouldn't be hard to swallow, as then they can trade him as an expiring contract in 2015-16. Boston shouldn't go near the deal for anything less.

then good for you and your team. having to pay 2 years of Wallace at $10mil+ isnt easy to swallow when he gives you nothing. I have a feeling Henny has been planning what to do, as we have burned off Hedo, Quentin, have a the last year of Harrington. We arent in line for the #1 pick, which would probably be Embiid, so Orlando would be trading their very young, good center still on a rookie contract and not have a big man anymore. And Orlando has been building thru the draft as they had bad contracts to finish out. Now they can use money to target players they want.

I thought it was safe to assume the deal was if they draft Embiid.

Trading one of Harris/Vuc seem really important to me for the Magic (because they're both due for extensions next season)

Embiid/?/Harris/Olaipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015-2016

Vuc/?/Wiggins/Dipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015 or 2016

That to me is the idea. Extending cap flexibility while also keeping similar talent.

They'd have to pay to dump Wallace next offseason if they were targeting 2015 offseason.. But my idea would be 2016 offseason. One more bad year (if they're still bad next season which they might not be if Exum/Embiid are hits right away) then 2015-2016 they have the young talent to compete(ish) then have 20+ mil cap space and a contender to offer the best free agent class.

But yeah, I'd be willing to take the flier on that plan if it were my team as well. See if Embiid, Harris, Wiggins, Dipo, Exum, and their pick next season are enough to bring in one of the big names of 2016-2017. Which it clearly would.

Resigning both Vuc and Harris next season severely limits the Magic's free agent options going forward.


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[GANGSTERDOG]

My Dream Lineup

Exum
Dipo
Anderson
Tobias
Embiid

Or

Exum/Lavine
Dipo/Lavine
Tobias/Harkless
KoQ/Tobias
Embiid/KoQ

[tiderulz]

I thought it was safe to assume the deal was if they draft Embiid.

Trading one of Harris/Vuc seem really important to me for the Magic (because they're both due for extensions next season)

Embiid/?/Harris/Olaipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015-2016

Vuc/?/Wiggins/Dipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015 or 2016

That to me is the idea. Extending cap flexibility while also keeping similar talent.

They'd have to pay to dump Wallace next offseason if they were targeting 2015 offseason.. But my idea would be 2016 offseason. One more bad year (if they're still bad next season which they might not be if Exum/Embiid are hits right away) then 2015-2016 they have the young talent to compete(ish) then have 20+ mil cap space and a contender to offer the best free agent class.

But yeah, I'd be willing to take the flier on that plan if it were my team as well. See if Embiid, Harris, Wiggins, Dipo, Exum, and their pick next season are enough to bring in one of the big names of 2016-2017. Which it clearly would.

Resigning both Vuc and Harris next season severely limits the Magic's free agent options going forward.


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you dont drop players just because they are due an extension

[jbk1234]

I thought it was safe to assume the deal was if they draft Embiid.

Trading one of Harris/Vuc seem really important to me for the Magic (because they're both due for extensions next season)

Embiid/?/Harris/Olaipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015-2016

Vuc/?/Wiggins/Dipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015 or 2016

That to me is the idea. Extending cap flexibility while also keeping similar talent.

They'd have to pay to dump Wallace next offseason if they were targeting 2015 offseason.. But my idea would be 2016 offseason. One more bad year (if they're still bad next season which they might not be if Exum/Embiid are hits right away) then 2015-2016 they have the young talent to compete(ish) then have 20+ mil cap space and a contender to offer the best free agent class.

But yeah, I'd be willing to take the flier on that plan if it were my team as well. See if Embiid, Harris, Wiggins, Dipo, Exum, and their pick next season are enough to bring in one of the big names of 2016-2017. Which it clearly would.

Resigning both Vuc and Harris next season severely limits the Magic's free agent options going forward.


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you dont drop players just because they are due an extension

This. You drop players you don't want to bring back. You extend the players you like. Maybe Exum is the second coming of Magic but he's never played against elite competition. I don't understand why everyone rates him as a can't miss prospect.

[DK-All Day]

I thought it was safe to assume the deal was if they draft Embiid.

Trading one of Harris/Vuc seem really important to me for the Magic (because they're both due for extensions next season)

Embiid/?/Harris/Olaipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015-2016

Vuc/?/Wiggins/Dipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015 or 2016

That to me is the idea. Extending cap flexibility while also keeping similar talent.

They'd have to pay to dump Wallace next offseason if they were targeting 2015 offseason.. But my idea would be 2016 offseason. One more bad year (if they're still bad next season which they might not be if Exum/Embiid are hits right away) then 2015-2016 they have the young talent to compete(ish) then have 20+ mil cap space and a contender to offer the best free agent class.

But yeah, I'd be willing to take the flier on that plan if it were my team as well. See if Embiid, Harris, Wiggins, Dipo, Exum, and their pick next season are enough to bring in one of the big names of 2016-2017. Which it clearly would.

Resigning both Vuc and Harris next season severely limits the Magic's free agent options going forward.


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you dont drop players just because they are due an extension

This. You drop players you don't want to bring back. You extend the players you like. Maybe Exum is the second coming of Magic but he's never played against elite competition. I don't understand why everyone rates him as a can't miss prospect.

I'm sick and tired of this argument.

Damian Lillard played at Weber State....WEBER STATE. I would say he's doing fine in the NBA currently. I bet every team except New Orleans regret not picking Lillard in the 2012 Draft. Judge his skillset, not his competition.

[tiderulz]

I'm sick and tired of this argument.

Damian Lillard played at Weber State....WEBER STATE. I would say he's doing fine in the NBA currently. I bet every team except New Orleans regret not picking Lillard in the 2012 Draft. Judge his skillset, not his competition.

i can look elite depending on my competition. Lillard may not have been in a major conference, but he was still playing against college players, a big step up from Australian players. Exum may be great, he may not, but you cant quite tell based off his competition.

[Winglish]

Trey Burke and #5 for Jameer Nelson and #2? Assuming the ping pong balls drop this order, of course...

Or #5 and #23 (GSW) for #2?

[jowglenn]

I think Kyrie is the perfect guy next to Oladipo - he's a scoring point guard while Oladipo is really a defense/athleticism guy. They'd be a new Isaiah/Dumars I think.

The original deal is just silly though, Cavs aren't sending out Irving AND TT AND their lotto pick just to get Wiggins or whomever.

Better concept is just go:

Irving

for

ORL 1st round pick (we presume top 3)
NYK 1st round pick (going to be like 14th or 15th or something)
PHI 2016 1st (has protection but could end up being a legit good 1st sometime)
mayyybe even the LAL 2017 1st.


Orlando gets Irving, an all-star point guard, to round it out. Maybe then they sign a burly big guy to backup Vuc, and someone to defend the wing.

Irving
Oladipo
Afflalo
Harris
Vucevic

w/ Nelson, Nicholson, O'Quinn, free agents off the bench.

Meanwhile Cleveland just blows it up and goes hard on the rejuve. Draft one of wiggins/embiid/parker with that top pick, grab someone with the 9th pick, grab someone w/ that Knicks pick - that's 3 top 15 guys from this draft. It could be like:

Ennis
Waiters
Wiggins
TT
Varejao

w/ Jack, Bennett, and the Knicks pick off the bench.

[tiderulz]

^^^AA as a SF is a disaster waiting to happen for Orlando. A top-3 pick as Smart or Exum could be just as dangerous (Smart for a great defensive back court, Exum if you believe he will develop) without giving up the extra picks. I know that Irving is an established scorer, but he also has a pretty big injury history now and doesnt seem to make his team better. And who knows if he would be happy moving from 1 small market to another.

[gumbyr24]

Orlando Fan here I wouldn't do it.
I'm completely on board with the way were rebuilding.
Were still a year away from making a trade like this
(if Henny decides to go the trade for superstar route)...

I'm probably one of the few that's intrigued by Vuc/Embiid
playing together. Wiggins or Parker also would have a place on
this team. Our young guys have so much versatility.
And then there's Exxum who will probably be an elite facilitator
and perfect fit next to Dipo.
These 4 guys on rookie deals easily come before Kyrie, especially if
your a rebuilding team.

[Xman]

I doubt CLE trades Irving - even for #1.

From posts - looks like ORL fans are happy with Vuc at C and Olid at SG.
I guess Harris is the SF they want? not AA?

I could agree with trading down a little - you want a PG - or even a PF. If you land at 1 or 2 and could deal down to 4 or 5 and still get a guy you really like (Randle/Exum/Smart). Question is what can you get? It would be real hard to trade out of the top 6 (top 5 if Randle stays in college).

Boston and Utah (projected 4 and 5) are two teams that should be willing to deal and have picks (they have PGs and are looking at those being left out of the top 6 guys).

NOW - where I would really like to deal is that 12th pick. Vonleh and Gordon should be picks 7 and 8. If you could get your pg in the top 6 (Exum or Smart) and then add one of those it would be nice. Or, if you added Randle in the top 6 and picked up Ennis around 9 that would work also.

- I would be offering up #12, the future protected Philly #1 and AA to move up to that 7/8 pick or even 9.
Think Philly would take #12 and their future pick back for #10?
#10 or #12 and AA for Detroit's #8?
Maybe you take Boston's #4 pick and the protected #1 from Philly in 2014 to move back from #3 or #2 - and send AA for pick #18 from Boston. Then send #18 and both future Philly #1s to Philly for #10. Send #10 and #12 for as high as you can get like #7.

[jayjaysee]

I thought it was safe to assume the deal was if they draft Embiid.

Trading one of Harris/Vuc seem really important to me for the Magic (because they're both due for extensions next season)

Embiid/?/Harris/Olaipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015-2016

Vuc/?/Wiggins/Dipo/Exum with 20+ mil cap space for either 2015 or 2016

That to me is the idea. Extending cap flexibility while also keeping similar talent.

They'd have to pay to dump Wallace next offseason if they were targeting 2015 offseason.. But my idea would be 2016 offseason. One more bad year (if they're still bad next season which they might not be if Exum/Embiid are hits right away) then 2015-2016 they have the young talent to compete(ish) then have 20+ mil cap space and a contender to offer the best free agent class.

But yeah, I'd be willing to take the flier on that plan if it were my team as well. See if Embiid, Harris, Wiggins, Dipo, Exum, and their pick next season are enough to bring in one of the big names of 2016-2017. Which it clearly would.

Resigning both Vuc and Harris next season severely limits the Magic's free agent options going forward.


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you dont drop players just because they are due an extension

This. You drop players you don't want to bring back. You extend the players you like. Maybe Exum is the second coming of Magic but he's never played against elite competition. I don't understand why everyone rates him as a can't miss prospect.

If you don't think Exum is worth the hype, sure.

But your argument that it doesn't make sense because you want to bring Vuc and Harris back is flawed.

If you draft in the top 3 you're likely drafting someone who is repetitive to those two while also possessing a higher ceiling. It makes sense to trade them for another position of need and an extra 3 years of rookie deal.

I don't see how that's a complicated idea.

Orlando isn't major free agent players this offseason. Next offseason they'll have to commit big money to Vuc and Harris. If they draft Wiggins, trading Harris for another core piece via draft pick gives Orlando the ability to add a Durant or Lebron in 2016. While Lebron sounds silly, a core of Exum/Dipo/Wiggins/Embiid after 2 years of growth would be very attractive to any FA if ownership was willing to pay the tax, which they would in my eyes as they did for Dwight. Actually with Vuc and 4 rookie contracts and min cap holds they'd actually have space for 2 max stars technically.

It's not about liking Harris. Everyone likes him. It's about asset management and building the best team long term.

Capping yourself out with Vuc/Harris/Wiggins/Afflalo/Dipo isn't the best team you can make. Adding Lance Stephenson this offseason isn't either.

And I imagine Henny sees the logic there, whether Orlando fans do or not.


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[rugbyrugger23]

I think Kyrie is the perfect guy next to Oladipo - he's a scoring point guard while Oladipo is really a defense/athleticism guy. They'd be a new Isaiah/Dumars I think.

The original deal is just silly though, Cavs aren't sending out Irving AND TT AND their lotto pick just to get Wiggins or whomever.

Better concept is just go:

Irving

for

ORL 1st round pick (we presume top 3)
NYK 1st round pick (going to be like 14th or 15th or something)
PHI 2016 1st (has protection but could end up being a legit good 1st sometime)
mayyybe even the LAL 2017 1st.


Orlando gets Irving, an all-star point guard, to round it out. Maybe then they sign a burly big guy to backup Vuc, and someone to defend the wing.

Irving
Oladipo
Afflalo
Harris
Vucevic

w/ Nelson, Nicholson, O'Quinn, free agents off the bench.

Meanwhile Cleveland just blows it up and goes hard on the rejuve. Draft one of wiggins/embiid/parker with that top pick, grab someone with the 9th pick, grab someone w/ that Knicks pick - that's 3 top 15 guys from this draft. It could be like:

Ennis
Waiters
Wiggins
TT
Varejao

w/ Jack, Bennett, and the Knicks pick off the bench.

Looking back at my OP, you are right, Cavs give up too much. But, I like the idea of TT in Orlando next to Vuc, and for Cavs thinning out PF position to give Bennett a fighting chance to get minutes (see DWill stuck behind KLove in MN...didn't work out well for him or Wolves).

How about:

Nelson + Hark + PF of Cavs choice + top3

For

Irving + TT

(Magic keep 15 and Cavs keep 9)

[gflem]

I think Kyrie is the perfect guy next to Oladipo - he's a scoring point guard while Oladipo is really a defense/athleticism guy. They'd be a new Isaiah/Dumars I think.

The original deal is just silly though, Cavs aren't sending out Irving AND TT AND their lotto pick just to get Wiggins or whomever.

Better concept is just go:

Irving

for

ORL 1st round pick (we presume top 3)
NYK 1st round pick (going to be like 14th or 15th or something)
PHI 2016 1st (has protection but could end up being a legit good 1st sometime)
mayyybe even the LAL 2017 1st.


Orlando gets Irving, an all-star point guard, to round it out. Maybe then they sign a burly big guy to backup Vuc, and someone to defend the wing.

Irving
Oladipo
Afflalo
Harris
Vucevic

w/ Nelson, Nicholson, O'Quinn, free agents off the bench.

Meanwhile Cleveland just blows it up and goes hard on the rejuve. Draft one of wiggins/embiid/parker with that top pick, grab someone with the 9th pick, grab someone w/ that Knicks pick - that's 3 top 15 guys from this draft. It could be like:

Ennis
Waiters
Wiggins
TT
Varejao

w/ Jack, Bennett, and the Knicks pick off the bench.

Looking back at my OP, you are right, Cavs give up too much. But, I like the idea of TT in Orlando next to Vuc, and for Cavs thinning out PF position to give Bennett a fighting chance to get minutes (see DWill stuck behind KLove in MN...didn't work out well for him or Wolves).

How about:

Nelson + Hark + PF of Cavs choice + top3

For

Irving + TT

(Magic keep 15 and Cavs keep 9)

I have been thinking something along these lines, but how about Kyrie and TT plus the Cavs first (barring ping pong ball miracle) for Nelson, AA and the Magic first?
It can be tweaked with future Mia first and or throw in players but that would be the basis of my idea. I know some of my fellow Cavs fans wont like this, but I am intrigued with the idea of AA and Dion starting in the back court, and as long as the team can keep Hawes there are enough 4/5 position players on the roster that losing TT wouldn't leave a glaring hole.
I just don't know how Magic fans feel about moving AA. And I was unaware of Nelson being only partially guaranteed, so he isn't negative value as someone else suggested as far as being able to just waive him if he is only there to even out salaries.

[BossHoggin]

might as well give up 16, 18, 20 1sts and Waiters and rebuild around Bennett, Afflalo, and Delladova

[jbk1234]

you dont drop players just because they are due an extension

This. You drop players you don't want to bring back. You extend the players you like. Maybe Exum is the second coming of Magic but he's never played against elite competition. I don't understand why everyone rates him as a can't miss prospect.

I'm sick and tired of this argument.

Damian Lillard played at Weber State....WEBER STATE. I would say he's doing fine in the NBA currently. I bet every team except New Orleans regret not picking Lillard in the 2012 Draft. Judge his skillset, not his competition.

I suspect that if Boston was picking in the top 3, you could care less about this argument. Not for nothing, but Lillard is overrated. He got drafted by a really good team and is a good shoot-first point guard. Put him on a lottery team and see how he plays.

[jbk1234]

I think Kyrie is the perfect guy next to Oladipo - he's a scoring point guard while Oladipo is really a defense/athleticism guy. They'd be a new Isaiah/Dumars I think.

The original deal is just silly though, Cavs aren't sending out Irving AND TT AND their lotto pick just to get Wiggins or whomever.

Better concept is just go:

Irving

for

ORL 1st round pick (we presume top 3)
NYK 1st round pick (going to be like 14th or 15th or something)
PHI 2016 1st (has protection but could end up being a legit good 1st sometime)
mayyybe even the LAL 2017 1st.


Orlando gets Irving, an all-star point guard, to round it out. Maybe then they sign a burly big guy to backup Vuc, and someone to defend the wing.

Irving
Oladipo
Afflalo
Harris
Vucevic

w/ Nelson, Nicholson, O'Quinn, free agents off the bench.

Meanwhile Cleveland just blows it up and goes hard on the rejuve. Draft one of wiggins/embiid/parker with that top pick, grab someone with the 9th pick, grab someone w/ that Knicks pick - that's 3 top 15 guys from this draft. It could be like:

Ennis
Waiters
Wiggins
TT
Varejao

w/ Jack, Bennett, and the Knicks pick off the bench.

Looking back at my OP, you are right, Cavs give up too much. But, I like the idea of TT in Orlando next to Vuc, and for Cavs thinning out PF position to give Bennett a fighting chance to get minutes (see DWill stuck behind KLove in MN...didn't work out well for him or Wolves).

How about:

Nelson + Hark + PF of Cavs choice + top3

For

Irving + TT

(Magic keep 15 and Cavs keep 9)

I have been thinking something along these lines, but how about Kyrie and TT plus the Cavs first (barring ping pong ball miracle) for Nelson, AA and the Magic first?
It can be tweaked with future Mia first and or throw in players but that would be the basis of my idea. I know some of my fellow Cavs fans wont like this, but I am intrigued with the idea of AA and Dion starting in the back court, and as long as the team can keep Hawes there are enough 4/5 position players on the roster that losing TT wouldn't leave a glaring hole.
I just don't know how Magic fans feel about moving AA. And I was unaware of Nelson being only partially guaranteed, so he isn't negative value as someone else suggested as far as being able to just waive him if he is only there to even out salaries.

Okay that is just horrible. It's not easy to have over 2,000 posts and only 22 and 1's. You are in Ricky Williams territory.

[gflem]

Look at the sign up date, most of my posts came before the and 1 was added. Nice try though. And yes, the Cavs should probably keep their first with my idea, but Orlando wouldn't go for that imo.
Unlike you, I really don't think Kyrie is the answer. The team played better without him, he doesn't stay on the court due to injuries (so far in his career), and listening to his interviews he seems to be all about Kyrie and his brand. Can he mature? Sure, but how long will it take?
Does he sign an extension, and if so is there an out clause after three seasons? Is he even worth a max extension? Or a super max if he starts the all-star game again? I don't view him as a franchise player, more as a talented offensive player with some name recognition. I think Dion gives the team as much as Kyrie at the same position, plays better defense and is a better/more willing passer.
As for TT, he is a starting PF who is limited offensively. Good hustle guy, good rebounder. Not elite defensively. And while Bennett had a poor first season, he did show he can rebound at near the same level or possibly better than TT. He was solid in spurts defending in the post and showed he has range on his J, though it was inconsistent. With Zeller and Bennett and Andy, the team is solid at PF without TT on the roster.