Orlando Magic big offseason

[Colbinii]

Asik doesnt take shots from outside the paint unlike Vucevic and hes not a factor on offense so all he really has to do is go for offensive rebounds so he should be better but Im not sure it would be the case if they had a similar role.

As far as foul rate goes, Vucevic's biggest weakness is his inability to draw fouls but he is a MUCH better free throw shooter so teams cant really hack him like they do to Asik and unlike Omer, Vuc isnt the 5th option on offense no matter who is on the floor, Asik just plays off the attention that others are attracting and gets easy buckets but its not like he has much skills.

I dont even know why its a debate, Asik is 4.5 years older, can leave after 1 year where he will get 15 million dollars and is a liablity on offense so the better question is does Asik even has a positive trade value, comparing him to a similar player who is much younger and on a rookie contract is laughable.

Vucevic definitely has more value, I never said he doesn't. Asik is a better basketball player, especially Center.

[jayjaysee]

I think if they draft Wiggins or Parker, the Magic should look to trade Harris. He should have decent value.

I also think if the Magic can get 7t-8th pick (they definitely have the pieces but I don't see Sac trading back and getting a shooting guard - they really like McLemore over there. Even though Afflalo is better, they would probably rather give Mc the minutes next year in hope for long term development. Det would most likely do it for 8th and Vonleh should solve the issue of Vuc's defense over the next 4-7 years together.

Harris should be traded in my eyes as he's due an extension next year and while very talented - is likely repetitive with who they draft (if it's Park/Wiggins) - that would keep Orlando in the position to have enough cap space to do anything they want in 2015 or 2016.. Vuc and Harris extensions will greatly limit the ability to improve team and I think Orlando will be too good to tank next year (assuming they don't totally miss in the draft Dipo/Harris/Vuc are already talented players and Harkless and two draft picks on top of Afflalo/Jameer...)

So I think trade Harris.. Maybe Harris for Ennis.. Maybe that's terrible.. I don't know.. Or maye Sac would do Harris+12th for Landry+7th and Orlando can keep Afflalo to be a vet leader and help push them to 8th seed next year - help grow their crop of young kids then look to add a max player and another near max player..

Ownership has money and with Vuc, Parker, Dipo, and Vonleh-Smart, and Orlando is a nice market. Should be a huge free agent market if they have the cap space to add 2 big names.


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[tiderulz]

Asik doesnt take shots from outside the paint unlike Vucevic and hes not a factor on offense so all he really has to do is go for offensive rebounds so he should be better but Im not sure it would be the case if they had a similar role.

As far as foul rate goes, Vucevic's biggest weakness is his inability to draw fouls but he is a MUCH better free throw shooter so teams cant really hack him like they do to Asik and unlike Omer, Vuc isnt the 5th option on offense no matter who is on the floor, Asik just plays off the attention that others are attracting and gets easy buckets but its not like he has much skills.

I dont even know why its a debate, Asik is 4.5 years older, can leave after 1 year where he will get 15 million dollars and is a liablity on offense so the better question is does Asik even has a positive trade value, comparing him to a similar player who is much younger and on a rookie contract is laughable.

Vucevic definitely has more value, I never said he doesn't. Asik is a better basketball player, especially Center.

and there we will disagree. As i have pointed out, they are even in rebounding, Asik is a better defender but Vuc is a much better offensive player, has improved defensively and can improve more. Asik is now pretty much what he is.

[tranjSAIC]

OP, decent suggestions for the Magic, here are my notes.
1. Good deal IF those players aren't available, however if Exum works out really well. I might take him instead of Parker. I'm not in love with Parker, I see him as being a slightly better Harris.

2. I could definitely see this one going down. I love Afflalo, but its time to let the young guys run free and stop deferring to him.

3. Just straight HORRIBLE IMO

4. Honestly I don't think we are going to spend money this summer, there are no great free agents that look like they would be worth it. Plus it might be better to run the young guys for a year to see what we need, so the following summer we can go all in then.

[j-ragg]

As a Magic fan, I'd take Asik over Vooch if they were both the same age and had the same contract. But Asik's is much less desirable.

Vucevic is getting pretty overrated among these parts. People on our board want to max him out. No thank you, I'd rather have someone like Asik and a good offensive power forward.

[Colbinii]

Asik doesnt take shots from outside the paint unlike Vucevic and hes not a factor on offense so all he really has to do is go for offensive rebounds so he should be better but Im not sure it would be the case if they had a similar role.

As far as foul rate goes, Vucevic's biggest weakness is his inability to draw fouls but he is a MUCH better free throw shooter so teams cant really hack him like they do to Asik and unlike Omer, Vuc isnt the 5th option on offense no matter who is on the floor, Asik just plays off the attention that others are attracting and gets easy buckets but its not like he has much skills.

I dont even know why its a debate, Asik is 4.5 years older, can leave after 1 year where he will get 15 million dollars and is a liablity on offense so the better question is does Asik even has a positive trade value, comparing him to a similar player who is much younger and on a rookie contract is laughable.

Vucevic definitely has more value, I never said he doesn't. Asik is a better basketball player, especially Center.

and there we will disagree. As i have pointed out, they are even in rebounding, Asik is a better defender but Vuc is a much better offensive player, has improved defensively and can improve more. Asik is now pretty much what he is.

He isn't much better on offense. He is also a worse rebounder (Unless the stats aren't telling the truth, in which case, prove to me otherwise). I have posted stats to prove this. Please, you guys keep saying stuff with no stats, no facts, no evidence. Keep being a homer with no facts besides your opinion. It leads for a great discussion

If you want to support your worthless opinion and make it worth something, post something to support it.

I should stop having discussions with homers. You guys have posted no stats this entire discussion and I have been the only one posting anything remotely factual. Please reply with something FACTUAL so I can take your opinion more than my cat's.

[old rem]

3. Trade Nikola Vucevic and Mo Harkless to Houston for Omer Asik.

Why for Houston? They get a C who can actually play alongside Dwight Howard because he has a mid range shot. They also pick up Harkless, and we know Darryl Morey loves stockpiling young talent. Houston also saves some money in this deal.

Why for Orlando? They get the defensive anchor at C that they are currently missing. For the team I am building here, Asik is a better fit than Vucevic.

Er, I don't think you're going to find much support for this from Orlando fans. Asik is a $15M rental next year; this is not at all the kind of deal the Magic should be making.

Agree 100%. Vuc is probably worth more than Asik...ESPECIALLY given the contract status.

Sac needs McLemore to PLAY. You hire coaches to teach-mentor...you don't roadblock guys you draft so high.

[tiderulz]

and there we will disagree. As i have pointed out, they are even in rebounding, Asik is a better defender but Vuc is a much better offensive player, has improved defensively and can improve more. Asik is now pretty much what he is.

He isn't much better on offense. He is also a worse rebounder (Unless the stats aren't telling the truth, in which case, prove to me otherwise). I have posted stats to prove this. Please, you guys keep saying stuff with no stats, no facts, no evidence. Keep being a homer with no facts besides your opinion. It leads for a great discussion

If you want to support your worthless opinion and make it worth something, post something to support it.

I should stop having discussions with homers. You guys have posted no stats this entire discussion and I have been the only one posting anything remotely factual. Please reply with something FACTUAL so I can take your opinion more than my cat's.

so my opinion is worthless, but yours isnt? And you ask for stats, i have posted these already

Omer had 1 year as a starter, 11.4 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg. (1st year in Houston)
Vuc has had 2 years as a starter, 11.5 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg (1st two years in Orlando)

looks pretty even to me.

Vuc has a better offensive game, better range, better passer and to add why i think he is better, he is 4.5 yrs younger and still on a rookie contract, not owed $15mil next year.

these were posted last night, so lets not act like you are the only one posting stats. Show me from the stats above as them both being a starter, how Asik is this much better rebounder? As a bench player in Chicago with no offensive role, he could concentrate on rebounding and was often against 2nd team players. Comparing their them both in their starting roles seems much more reasonable to me. Vuc has range out to 20 feet, Asik does not. Vuc can shoot FT's, Asik cannot. tell me again how Vuc isnt better offensively?

so over a year, Vuc and Asik rebounder exactly the same, seems like your opinion is "worthless"

[loserX]

Everyone please tone it down and stay on topic or this gets locked quick.

[Viper1500]

you must be an irrational fan to underrate Vuc, he is a top-12 center at worst in the entire league, still on his rookie contract. And i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc, maybe ill give them an even pass on that. And you obviously have an agenda, as Vuc showed a lot more defensively this year. He isnt a shot blocker, but his team defense definitely improved from last year. And compared to Asik, he is an offensive machine.

Top 12? You're crazy.

Howard
Cousins
Horford
Bosh
Davis
Drummond
Noah
Hibbert
Gasol
Pekovic
D. Jordan
Gortat
Bogut
B. Lopez
Chandler

Are all better players with a doubt. Then you have Asik and Dieng who you could make a case for if you value Defense at a premium over offensive production.

L O L

I'd take vucevic over many of the other names you listed as well, the guy is only 23

Anyway, on topic. I really like trade #2,the rest I am not fond of at all.

[Xman]

1. Draft Jabari Parker at 3. I'm assuming that Wiggins and Embiid go 1 and 2.
- RESPONSE - Embiid dropping but hopefully you get 1st or 2nd pick so no issue.

2. Trade Arron Afflalo and the #12 Pick to Sacramento for Jason Thompson and the #7 pick and draft Marcus Smart. (You can also sub in Carl Landry here if you would rather. Premise remains basically the same.)
- RESPONSE - I like the trade. Makes sense for both teams. Not sure if Smart is the pick though - maybe Vonleh?

3. Trade Nikola Vucevic and Mo Harkless to Houston for Omer Asik.
- RESPONSE - everything I had read until this post suggested Vuc was an up and coming center that could be one of the second echelon guys (Howard being top echelon). either I need to adjust opinion or this is a terrible deal for ORL. Asik could be had right now for less I think. Maybe just taking Lin and Asik together for a TE could do it - #12 might get it done - combined gets it easy and you still have Vuc (or take Lin and Asik and send that future philly or LAL pick).

My twist:
1 - I like this - Trade Arron Afflalo and the #12 Pick to Sacramento for Jason Thompson and the #7 pick.
2- Draft Parker - like that too
2 - Trade #7 and Vuc for Rondo
3 - Trade 2016 Philly #1, 2017 LAL #1 for Lin, Motie and Asik.

That leaves you with:
Rondo/Oladipo/Parker/JThomp/Asik
backups - lin, harkless, Nicholson, harris, lamb, oquinn, maxiel

Still have room to add a nice free agent.

[tiderulz]

My twist:
1 - I like this - Trade Arron Afflalo and the #12 Pick to Sacramento for Jason Thompson and the #7 pick.
2- Draft Parker - like that too
2 - Trade #7 and Vuc for Rondo
3 - Trade 2016 Philly #1, 2017 LAL #1 for Lin, Motie and Asik.

That leaves you with:
Rondo/Oladipo/Parker/JThomp/Asik
backups - lin, harkless, Nicholson, harris, lamb, oquinn, maxiel

Still have room to add a nice free agent.

^^you like spending Devos' money? Lin & Asik owed $30 mil next year. Yes i know the cap hit is $16m, but that is still a lot of money for 2 players that arent worth that much and can walk right away to another team, losing those 1st round picks.

I would rather find a defensive PF to play with Vuc and stay with the better, younger, cheaper player. You can always re-evaluate Vucci after next year. Rondo, him and Oladipo would not be a pretty offensive back court.

[Xman]

Rox could prepay $3 mil on each contract. Also could break down into 2 trades so Rox could send another 6 mil. That would get it down to $9mil each. Asik is worth more and Lin less - but averages out.

[loserX]

Rox could prepay $3 mil on each contract. Also could break down into 2 trades so Rox could send another 6 mil. That would get it down to $9mil each. Asik is worth more and Lin less - but averages out.

This can't work. Each team can only send out or receive $3M TOTAL in a year, no matter how many trades they make. And although the wording is still a bit dense it appears that the CBA counts any contract prepayment as part of that total.

[RookieStar]

you must be an irrational fan to underrate Vuc, he is a top-12 center at worst in the entire league, still on his rookie contract. And i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc, maybe ill give them an even pass on that. And you obviously have an agenda, as Vuc showed a lot more defensively this year. He isnt a shot blocker, but his team defense definitely improved from last year. And compared to Asik, he is an offensive machine.

Top 12? You're crazy.

Howard
Cousins
Horford
Bosh
Davis
Drummond
Noah
Hibbert
Gasol
Pekovic
D. Jordan
Gortat
Bogut
B. Lopez
Chandler

Are all better players with a doubt. Then you have Asik and Dieng who you could make a case for if you value Defense at a premium over offensive production.

L O L

I'd take vucevic over many of the other names you listed as well, the guy is only 23

Anyway, on topic. I really like trade #2,the rest I am not fond of at all.

EXactly. Also, are we including PFs now or is the distinction considered "gray'?? Because Horford, Bosh and Davis are PFs sometimes masquerading as Cs if the situation calls for it.

Plus, B.Lopez, Chandler, Bogut better than Vuc? ummmm ok

[Smitty731]

Trade #3 is horrible. Vuc is worth more than Asik by himself, a better overall player and then you throw in Harkless on top of that, to pay $15mil of Asik and bail out Morey on the poison pill he gave Chicago?

Not sure on #1 item, as Harris is a very similar player to Parker, he just doesnt have the 3 pt shot that Parker does, but probably has a slightly better defense and post game.

And Thompson is a huge contract to swallow. He doesnt bring anything that we dont already get from O'Quinn, but is owed $19 over the next 3 years (with last year apparently partially guaranteed). Big price to pay to move up for a player that just might fall to Orlando at 12.

Then Deng, Brand and Meeks? sorry, but hell no. Deng is going to be looking for a contract like 4 yrs/$40, and he has too much mileage for that. Brand is so far gone over the hill. Meeks is an average backup SG that we can get anywhere.

the team you put together would probably be around 7-8 in the East.

I apologize for calling you irrational. That was uncalled for. We can disagree. Your points were all valid. Just because we disagree was no need for me to start with uncalled comments. Sorry about that.

I asked more than a few Magic fans that I know here and they all liked the setup I proposed. Now some of them are probably just sick of losing the last few years and would like to get back at it.

Regardless, I think we all can agree the Magic will be very interesting and are set up nicely for the future. If things go the way we all think they could, the East finally has some teams set up to step up and start to balance off the conferences a little. A little!

[tiderulz]

Plus, B.Lopez, Chandler, Bogut better than Vuc? ummmm ok

if they could stay healthy, yes. but they cant. Chandler not as bad, but Bogut and Lopez are MASH units lately

[tiderulz]

Trade #3 is horrible. Vuc is worth more than Asik by himself, a better overall player and then you throw in Harkless on top of that, to pay $15mil of Asik and bail out Morey on the poison pill he gave Chicago?

Not sure on #1 item, as Harris is a very similar player to Parker, he just doesnt have the 3 pt shot that Parker does, but probably has a slightly better defense and post game.

And Thompson is a huge contract to swallow. He doesnt bring anything that we dont already get from O'Quinn, but is owed $19 over the next 3 years (with last year apparently partially guaranteed). Big price to pay to move up for a player that just might fall to Orlando at 12.

Then Deng, Brand and Meeks? sorry, but hell no. Deng is going to be looking for a contract like 4 yrs/$40, and he has too much mileage for that. Brand is so far gone over the hill. Meeks is an average backup SG that we can get anywhere.

the team you put together would probably be around 7-8 in the East.

I apologize for calling you irrational. That was uncalled for. We can disagree. Your points were all valid. Just because we disagree was no need for me to start with uncalled comments. Sorry about that.

I asked more than a few Magic fans that I know here and they all liked the setup I proposed. Now some of them are probably just sick of losing the last few years and would like to get back at it.

Regardless, I think we all can agree the Magic will be very interesting and are set up nicely for the future. If things go the way we all think they could, the East finally has some teams set up to step up and start to balance off the conferences a little. A little!

thats fair, we all have our own opinions, we all just want to improve the Magic

[Colbinii]

L O L

I'd take vucevic over many of the other names you listed as well, the guy is only 23

Anyway, on topic. I really like trade #2,the rest I am not fond of at all.

I am not talking trade value, I am talking basketball talent and ability to WIN basketball games. I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that through my countless posts in this thread. Yes, Vuc has more value than a handful of those players, especially for a team like the Tragic who are rebuilding compared to a team trying to Win games.

Plus, B.Lopez, Chandler, Bogut better than Vuc? ummmm ok

When healthy they all are. I am not arguing value, I am arguing basketball ability and players who you would rather have on your team to win a Championship. Maybe Vucevic will be there in a few years, maybe he won't, who knows.

Chandler anchored an NBA Champion 2 years ago.
Brook Lopez has averaged 20/7/2 with 1.7 TO on 58 TS% the last 2 years, albeit often injured.
Bogut is the defensive anchor on a team ranked 4th in Defensive Rating.

[Mrrags009]

you must be an irrational fan to underrate Vuc, he is a top-12 center at worst in the entire league, still on his rookie contract. And i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc, maybe ill give them an even pass on that. And you obviously have an agenda, as Vuc showed a lot more defensively this year. He isnt a shot blocker, but his team defense definitely improved from last year. And compared to Asik, he is an offensive machine.

Top 12? You're crazy.

Howard -
Cousins
Horford
Bosh- pf
Davis-fc
Drummond
Noah
Hibbert- have u watched him the last 6 weeks nor that good just on good team
Gasol
Pekovic
D. Jordan - not better than vucci
Gortat- do u really think so
Bogut - do he play for gsw or dnp inj I can't tell
B. Lopez - see bogut
Chandler-rofl 1 dpy doesn't make u a good player plus he's always hurt

Are all better players with a doubt.( big doubt) Then you have Asik and Dieng who you could make a case for if you value Defense at a premium over offensive production( Orland needs better offense ).

Asik is a better rebounder than Vucevic, and a MUCH better offensive rebounder.( your right he is and still isn't worth 8 million per)
He isn't an offensive machine compared to Asik either. When Asik started, he put up 10 points on 7.5 attempts per game, with an ability to get to the line at an ELITE level. His FTR was .487 that year (A career low) while Vucevic's FTR is an astonishing .197 (career high, and this number is terrible, awful, HORRENDOUS for any nba player, especially a big). Asik also scored at a 56 TS% while Vucevic does his scoring at a league average 53.5 TS%.

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