Detroit Pistons Cap Space

[Smitty731]

Updated 3/16 with the signing of Quincy Miller to a two year contract.

Current Cap Space: None. $1,437,254.00 over (this figure is inclusive of all Exceptions being added back against the Cap)
Maximum Cap Space: None. $1,437,254.00 over (if all options/guarantees were not picked up, all FAs renounced, no draft picks were to be signed this season, and all Exceptions were renounced)
Luxury Tax Space: $12,326,746.00
Tax Apron Space: $16,326,746.00
2015-2016 Maximum Cap Space: $34,948,893.00

How I got there:

Guaranteed Contracts (15): Joel Anthony, Caron Butler, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Spencer Dinwiddie, Andre Drummond, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Jennings, John Lucas III, Cartier Martin, Jodie Meeks, Quincy Miller, Greg Monroe, Tayshaun Prince, Anthony Tolliver, Shawne Williams

Partial/Non-Guaranteed Contracts Kept to date (0): None

Carried Money (6): Aaron Gray ($1,227,985.00), John Lucas III 1 ($53,838.00), John Lucas III 2 ($53,838.00), Quincy Miller 1 ($53,838.00), Quincy Miller 2 ($53,838.00), Josh Smith ($13,500,000.00)

FA Cap Holds (0): None

Draft Pick Holds (0): None

Current Exceptions: Room Exception at $2,732,000.00. No BAE due to being under the Cap. TPEs at $1,090,000.00 (Kyle Singler), $795,631.00 (D.J. Augustin)

[The Penguin]

Very hard to speculate on too much given the state of the (lack?) of front office. Rumblings have surfaced that Jerebko is unhappy and will look to opt out because he wants to play more (which may be the ultimate case of a guy not understanding his value).

I expect Monroe to be back next year. Smith's play/attitude is problem #1 for the team and hopefully new management will make dumping him the first priority. Beyond that I don't expect anyone to give up anything interesting enough to agree to a S&T on Monroe.

With the pick being owed to Charlotte and Gores' stated desire to return to the playoffs a rebuild is definitely not on tap.


Someone who knows the CBA better than me can feel free to correct me, but I am under the assumption the Pistons can use Monroe's QO cap hold as a place holder to determine cap room, sign someone like Deng or Ariza and then use Monroe's bird rights to exceed the cap by the difference between his QO cap hold and the amount he actually signs (or the RFA offer to match).

[Mykhyn]

This doesn't seem accurate.

I don't see how you jump down to 9mil cap space.

You have the MLE listed incorrectly. Cap room teams have a MLE of 2.575mil, not 5.3mil

Billups as far as I can tell does not have a team option but has a guaranteed contract.

Assuming they renounce everyone except Monroe that leaves them with about 20-22mil in cap space by my calculations.

[Smitty731]

This doesn't seem accurate.

I don't see how you jump down to 9mil cap space.

You have the MLE listed incorrectly. Cap room teams have a MLE of 2.575mil, not 5.3mil

Billups as far as I can tell does not have a team option but has a guaranteed contract.

Assuming they renounce everyone except Monroe that leaves them with about 20-22mil in cap space by my calculations.

The Pistons do not have room. At least not to start with. This is because of the Cap Holds for Monroe, Stuckey and Villanueva for the most part. So, they don't get the MLE. And the Room Exception for next year is $2,077,000.00 per the CBA FAQ.

Billups on every site I check has a TO for next year at 2.5 million.

And if they waive all non-guaranteed contracts, no options are picked up, and all FAs are renounced, they would be at the $27,757,426.00 in space. That is inclusive of 4 holds of $507336.00 for empty roster spots below 12. I think your number of 20-22 million is inclusive of Monroe at the 5th year number of $5,479,934.00. That is his 5th year number, but his cap hold is $10,216,135.00 million as an RFA coming off his rookie deal with a salary at or below league average.

[Mykhyn]

This doesn't seem accurate.

I don't see how you jump down to 9mil cap space.

You have the MLE listed incorrectly. Cap room teams have a MLE of 2.575mil, not 5.3mil

Billups as far as I can tell does not have a team option but has a guaranteed contract.

Assuming they renounce everyone except Monroe that leaves them with about 20-22mil in cap space by my calculations.

The Pistons do not have room. At least not to start with. This is because of the Cap Holds for Monroe, Stuckey and Villanueva for the most part. So, they don't get the MLE. And the Room Exception for next year is $2,077,000.00 per the CBA FAQ.

Billups on every site I check has a TO for next year at 2.5 million.

And if they waive all non-guaranteed contracts, no options are picked up, and all FAs are renounced, they would be at the $27,757,426.00 in space. That is inclusive of 4 holds of $507336.00 for empty roster spots below 12. I think your number of 20-22 million is inclusive of Monroe at the 5th year number of $5,479,934.00. That is his 5th year number, but his cap hold is $10,216,135.00 million as an RFA coming off his rookie deal with a salary at or below league average.

How do you get down to under 10mil. Removing Billups and adding extra to monroe still has that at 17-19 mil.

[coolness]

I hope we keep Josh Harrelson as a 4th or 5th big and trade Tony Mitchell for a 2nd rounder.

why would Jerebko opt out? Can't he just opt-in and then ask for a small buy-out? he would get paid $4.5m in his expiring year and is worth $2.25m. he has to know that he can just get that free Pistons buyout for $2m, and they would probably do it. or is there something in the CBA against buy-outs for option players?

[Smitty731]

How do you get down to under 10mil. Removing Billups and adding extra to monroe still has that at 17-19 mil.

Posting quick here, but 27.7 max space minus 4.5 for Jerebko opting in, 10.2 for Monroe's Cap Hold, .8 for Siva being picked up, and 2.2 for the 8th pick Cap Hold gets to 9.9. Some of these are obviously rounded off. I can do the exacts later tonight when I get home, but that is how you get to the 9.9 in "real" space. Obviously once Monroe is dealt with, that opens up quite a bit more potentially.

[Mykhyn]

How do you get down to under 10mil. Removing Billups and adding extra to monroe still has that at 17-19 mil.

Posting quick here, but 27.7 max space minus 4.5 for Jerebko opting in, 10.2 for Monroe's Cap Hold, .8 for Siva being picked up, and 2.2 for the 8th pick Cap Hold gets to 9.9. Some of these are obviously rounded off. I can do the exacts later tonight when I get home, but that is how you get to the 9.9 in "real" space. Obviously once Monroe is dealt with, that opens up quite a bit more potentially.

We must be working off different numbers. I just reran everything and I'm still getting 13mil~. I think you're double counting Jerebko

[Notanoob]

Are you using the new projected salary cap? I believe that it's supposed to increase to $63.2 now. That might explain the discrepancy.

[Bentley1225]

I think it alot depends on if Detroit is able to lock down their own pick (Top 8 protected) and what type of offer sheet Monroe gets.

Id perhaps entertain the thought of dealing Josh Smith for Eric Gordon

[Knosh]

The Pistons do not have room. At least not to start with. This is because of the Cap Holds for Monroe, Stuckey and Villanueva for the most part. So, they don't get the MLE. And the Room Exception for next year is $2,077,000.00 per the CBA FAQ.

1. Once they get room, they lose the non-taxpayer MLE and get the room exception. It doesn't matter whether or not they start with room.

2. The Room Exception for next year is $2.7m. You are looking at the Bi-Annual, which is $2.077m

[Smitty731]

You are

1. Once they get room, they lose the non-taxpayer MLE and get the room exception. It doesn't matter whether or not they start with room.

2. The Room Exception for next year is $2.7m. You are looking at the Bi-Annual, which is $2.077m

On point 1, I am talking about where teams are starting, so I think my point is valid.

On point 2, you are 100% right. This is what I get for trying to write posts on the fly at work. The room exception is $2,732,000.00. BAE is the $2,077,000.00. I'll try to be more careful next time.

[Knosh]

You are

1. Once they get room, they lose the non-taxpayer MLE and get the room exception. It doesn't matter whether or not they start with room.

2. The Room Exception for next year is $2.7m. You are looking at the Bi-Annual, which is $2.077m

On point 1, I am talking about where teams are starting, so I think my point is valid.

On point 2, you are 100% right. This is what I get for trying to write posts on the fly at work. The room exception is $2,732,000.00. BAE is the $2,077,000.00. I'll try to be more careful next time.

I don't get it. If you would be talking about where teams are starting: Detroit doesn't have cap space, because they have almost $50m in cap holds. You are making assumptions on how they will handle those, and under those assumptions they would have cap space and would lose the non-taxpayer MLE.
Maybe it would be better if you actually posted how you calculated that "real" capspace. Did you factor the MLE into that?

[Smitty731]

We must be working off different numbers. I just reran everything and I'm still getting 13mil~. I think you're double counting Jerebko

Not double counting anything. The math is this:

Max space assuming everyone with options, non-guaranteed, cap holds are renounced would be $27,757,547.00 in space against a cap of $63,200,000.00. It would count for the following:

Bynum - $2,915,908.00
KCP - $2,772,480.00
Datome - $1,750,000.00
Drummond - $2,568,360.00
Jennings - $8,000,000.00
Mitchell - $816,482.00
Singler - $1,090,000.00
Smith - $13,500,000.00
Open Roster Charge - $507,336.00 x 4 = $2,029,344.00

Total - $35,442,574.00.

Cap of $63,200,000.00 - $35,442,574.00 = $27,757,426.00

Now, I take that $27,757,426.00 and subtract the following to it:

Jerebko - $4,500,000.00
Monroe - $10,216,135 (QO Cap Hold)
Siva - $816,482.00
#8 Pick - $2,288,200.00

That leaves you with $9,936,609.00 in space left over.

I've now really triple checked this and feel very confident it is accurate. If you see something wrong, please let me know. We're all trying to learn here!

[Mykhyn]

We must be working off different numbers. I just reran everything and I'm still getting 13mil~. I think you're double counting Jerebko

Not double counting anything. The math is this:

Max space assuming everyone with options, non-guaranteed, cap holds are renounced would be $27,757,547.00 in space against a cap of $63,200,000.00. It would count for the following:

Bynum - $2,915,908.00
KCP - $2,772,480.00
Datome - $1,750,000.00
Drummond - $2,568,360.00
Jennings - $8,000,000.00
Mitchell - $816,482.00
Singler - $1,090,000.00
Smith - $13,500,000.00
Open Roster Charge - $507,336.00 x 4 = $2,029,344.00

Total - $35,442,574.00.

Cap of $63,200,000.00 - $35,442,574.00 = $27,757,426.00

Now, I take that $27,757,426.00 and subtract the following to it:

Jerebko - $4,500,000.00
Monroe - $10,216,135 (QO Cap Hold)
Siva - $816,482.00
#8 Pick - $2,288,200.00

That leaves you with $9,936,609.00 in space left over.

I've now really triple checked this and feel very confident it is accurate. If you see something wrong, please let me know. We're all trying to learn here!

Those 4 cap holds you have listed wouldnt be there if Siva, the #8, Jerebko are picked up no? Seems wrong that theyd have double cap holds for Monroe too.

[Smitty731]

You are

1. Once they get room, they lose the non-taxpayer MLE and get the room exception. It doesn't matter whether or not they start with room.

2. The Room Exception for next year is $2.7m. You are looking at the Bi-Annual, which is $2.077m

On point 1, I am talking about where teams are starting, so I think my point is valid.

On point 2, you are 100% right. This is what I get for trying to write posts on the fly at work. The room exception is $2,732,000.00. BAE is the $2,077,000.00. I'll try to be more careful next time.

I don't get it. If you would be talking about where teams are starting: Detroit doesn't have cap space, because they have almost $50m in cap holds. You are making assumptions on how they will handle those, and under those assumptions they would have cap space and would lose the non-taxpayer MLE.
Maybe it would be better if you actually posted how you calculated that "real" capspace. Did you factor the MLE into that?

Maybe someone with a better working knowledge of the cap will correct me, but because Detroit will start out over the cap by approximately 19.3 million (with all cap holds included and all salaries included), they will have the Non-Tax Room Exception available to them of $5,305,000.00. I believe, and I may be wrong, should the team drop below the Cap, they will then have the Room Exception of $2,732,000.00 available to them in place of the Non-Tax Room Exception.

I may have this wrong, but I think that is how it works. Someone please correct me if I am off.

[Knosh]

Yeah those 4 roster charges shouldn't be here. See cbafaq: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

"A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks)."

So Jerebko is under contract, Monroe is included in team salary because you give him the QO, Siva is under contract, and the first round pick..is a first round pick..

So "real" cap space should be $11,965,953 ( $9,936,609 + $2,029,344)

I just ballparked it and noticed it was off by a bit and thought you might have included some kind of MLE money. So apologies for that.

[Knosh]

Maybe someone with a better working knowledge of the cap will correct me, but because Detroit will start out over the cap by approximately 19.3 million (with all cap holds included and all salaries included), they will have the Non-Tax Room Exception available to them of $5,305,000.00. I believe, and I may be wrong, should the team drop below the Cap, they will then have the Room Exception of $2,732,000.00 available to them in place of the Non-Tax Room Exception.

I may have this wrong, but I think that is how it works. Someone please correct me if I am off.

No, that is how it works. I was just confused because you're scenario had them drop below the cap(after renouncing guys and opting out of contracts and so on), but you listed the MLE.

And as I said, you had some error in your math, so I was wondering if that was coming from the MLE or something. But as it turns out, the misstake was with the incomplete roster charges.

[Smitty731]

Yeah those 4 roster charges shouldn't be here. See cbafaq: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

"A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks)."

So Jerebko is under contract, Monroe is included in team salary because you give him the QO, Siva is under contract, and the first round pick..is a first round pick..

So "real" cap space should be $11,965,953 ( $9,936,609 + $2,029,344)

I just ballparked it and noticed it was off by a bit and thought you might have included some kind of MLE money. So apologies for that.

Absolutely correct. I forgot to subtract the Incomplete Roster Charges. Great catch!

Also, Monroe is not double counted. The 10.2 million is his Cap Hold with a QO as an RFA. Seems high, but he is coming off the 4th year of his Rookie Scale Deal and makes less than the league average. I checked that one a few times to make sure I had it right.

[Mykhyn]

Yeah those 4 roster charges shouldn't be here. See cbafaq: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

"A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks)."

So Jerebko is under contract, Monroe is included in team salary because you give him the QO, Siva is under contract, and the first round pick..is a first round pick..

So "real" cap space should be $11,965,953 ( $9,936,609 + $2,029,344)

I just ballparked it and noticed it was off by a bit and thought you might have included some kind of MLE money. So apologies for that.

Absolutely correct. I forgot to subtract the Incomplete Roster Charges. Great catch!

Also, Monroe is not double counted. The 10.2 million is his Cap Hold with a QO as an RFA. Seems high, but he is coming off the 4th year of his Rookie Scale Deal and makes less than the league average. I checked that one a few times to make sure I had it right.

Meant double counted in the sense that he had 2 cap holds, one for minimum one for his other