Official: Afflalo to Denver for Fournier, 56th pick

[Smitty731]

So did Denver trade #11, #56 and Evan Fournier, for nothing?

I'm confused by this? What does this post mean?

[LApwnd]

So did Denver trade #11, #56 and Evan Fournier, for nothing?

I'm confused by this? What does this post mean?

in ref. to Den being part of the Howard deal, now that they've gotten Affalo back who was the main piece leaving Den and Den no longer has Iggy. So they basically gave up those assets to be in the same place they were 2 years ago

[bondom34]

So....looks like all Orlando wanted was cap space. For who I wonder? Bledsoe? Monroe? Lowry? Trade for Boozer/picks?

[WhatsaTDot]

Guess this also confirms Henderson is considered to have significant negative value.

[RRFB]

So did Denver trade #11, #56 and Evan Fournier, for nothing?

Technically we traded #12 (via NY), #56, Al Harrington and Evan Fournier for nothing.

Although it should be noted that the two trades were made by two completely different FO regimes.

[giberish]

Guess this also confirms Henderson is considered to have significant negative value.

Fournier has value at similar to #24, possibly a bit better. I wouldn't say this puts Henderson at significant negative value, but at least a little less than zero.

[The Rebel]

reading this thread it is funny how quickly people turned on Afflalo, could it be that some of you underrated Fournier and cap space? I personally put his value right at about a late lotto pick.

Fournier is a very young but still good prospect that did not fit into the Shaw system where he tried to turn Fournier into a spot up shooter. I think with time to play he is still able to end up being a borderline all star type in a couple of years if he is allowed to play his game.

Add that to $6 million or so in cap space and that is good value, especially when compared to the 24th pick and a marginal contract.

[Prospect Dong]

This official makes the Dwight Howard trade awful, Rob Hennigan is an idiot, I cant beleive they couldnt get a bettter offer than this

how about we wait until the end of the day. Orlando can also waive Jameer now and cut $6mil off salary, and they just cut about $6mil with this trade. With a lot of cap space, who knows what else happens tonight.

As others have already pointed out, cap space has some value, sure, but that value doesn't depend on what you are later able to do with it. If you sign Lebron it's not like you can suddenly claim Afflalo's value was the same as Lebron's.

You got an B/B- level prospect, a late 2nd and cleared some cap. Knowing the market value of generating cap space, we can say, right now, that that's not as good as getting a lotto pick for him.

[The Rebel]

This official makes the Dwight Howard trade awful, Rob Hennigan is an idiot, I cant beleive they couldnt get a bettter offer than this

how about we wait until the end of the day. Orlando can also waive Jameer now and cut $6mil off salary, and they just cut about $6mil with this trade. With a lot of cap space, who knows what else happens tonight.

As others have already pointed out, cap space has some value, sure, but that value doesn't depend on what you are later able to do with it. If you sign Lebron it's not like you can suddenly claim Afflalo's value was the same as Lebron's.

You got an B/B- level prospect, a late 2nd and cleared some cap. Knowing the market value of generating cap space, we can say, right now, that that's not as good as getting a lotto pick for him.

I will say this again, I would not trade Fournier for anything less than a top 10 pick, even trying to play in a system that forced Fournier to try to be D & 3 player Fournier showed plenty of flashes of being a long term capable scorer, when Karl was coach and allowed Fournier to play his slashing style fournier was one of the best rookies I have seen in years. He literally looked like a young Ginobli, and is still only 21.

I can understand the Nuggets making the deal, they believe they are a solid playoff team and want to get better now, but I have a feeling in 2 years this deal will be regrettable for the Nuggets.

[Prospect Dong]

how about we wait until the end of the day. Orlando can also waive Jameer now and cut $6mil off salary, and they just cut about $6mil with this trade. With a lot of cap space, who knows what else happens tonight.

As others have already pointed out, cap space has some value, sure, but that value doesn't depend on what you are later able to do with it. If you sign Lebron it's not like you can suddenly claim Afflalo's value was the same as Lebron's.

You got an B/B- level prospect, a late 2nd and cleared some cap. Knowing the market value of generating cap space, we can say, right now, that that's not as good as getting a lotto pick for him.

I will say this again, I would not trade Fournier for anything less than a top 10 pick, even trying to play in a system that forced Fournier to try to be D & 3 player Fournier showed plenty of flashes of being a long term capable scorer, when Karl was coach and allowed Fournier to play his slashing style fournier was one of the best rookies I have seen in years. He literally looked like a young Ginobli, and is still only 21.

I can understand the Nuggets making the deal, they believe they are a solid playoff team and want to get better now, but I have a feeling in 2 years this deal will be regrettable for the Nuggets.

I admire that you're sticking with your guy even after he's traded, but I've heard this kind of thing about young bench players so often that I'm skeptical.

So skeptical, in fact that I'd happily make a sig bet around the possibility of Fournier ever becoming an all star, as you suggest he might. To be fair, you say "borderline all star", and you put some conditions on what would have to happen for that to be the result, so I'm willing to give you 12 to 1 odds - I wear your sig for a whole year, you wear mine for a month (let's say April) depending on whether Fournier makes an all star game over the next couple of seasons. Can you live with two seasons (standard definition of "couple") or do you want to hold out for three? I would really miss my sig, so I don't make this offer lightly.

[The Rebel]

As others have already pointed out, cap space has some value, sure, but that value doesn't depend on what you are later able to do with it. If you sign Lebron it's not like you can suddenly claim Afflalo's value was the same as Lebron's.

You got an B/B- level prospect, a late 2nd and cleared some cap. Knowing the market value of generating cap space, we can say, right now, that that's not as good as getting a lotto pick for him.

I will say this again, I would not trade Fournier for anything less than a top 10 pick, even trying to play in a system that forced Fournier to try to be D & 3 player Fournier showed plenty of flashes of being a long term capable scorer, when Karl was coach and allowed Fournier to play his slashing style fournier was one of the best rookies I have seen in years. He literally looked like a young Ginobli, and is still only 21.

I can understand the Nuggets making the deal, they believe they are a solid playoff team and want to get better now, but I have a feeling in 2 years this deal will be regrettable for the Nuggets.

I admire that you're sticking with your guy even after he's traded, but I've heard this kind of thing about young bench players so often that I'm skeptical.

So skeptical, in fact that I'd happily make a sig bet around the possibility of Fournier ever becoming an all star, as you suggest he might. To be fair, you say "borderline all star", and you put some conditions on what would have to happen for that to be the result, so I'm willing to give you 12 to 1 odds - I wear your sig for a whole year, you wear mine for a month (let's say April) depending on whether Fournier makes an all star game over the next couple of seasons. Can you live with two seasons (standard definition of "couple") or do you want to hold out for three? I would really miss my sig, so I don't make this offer lightly.

1st where did I say anything about the all star game in the post you quoted?
I do not do sigs, let alone sig bets, but you are welcome to dig this out in a couple of years and use it against me. But I have to ask why do you insist on it only being 2 or 3 years, why cannot you not wait until the guy is at least entering his physical prime?

The fact is I call it like I see it, there are reasons that everybody that has actually watched Fournier has been very high on the kid, most are still very high on him even after watching Shaw force Fournier try to be a spot up shooter. The team ran by a guy who is said to lose every trade at the press conference only to be shown to be right in finding young undervalued players seems to have agreed with me as well, deciding that Fournier was worth more than the 24th pick and an average SG.

And truthfully what if i told you that you could draft a guy that was a slasher but will shoot 37.5% from 3, is only 21 years old, and would be able to handle meaningful minutes this year? I think that if you told the Kings fans that was what they should expect from Stauskas than they would be pretty excited than right? Last year that is what a 20-21 year Fournier did, do you think Stuaskas will do that much? But you are right since a guy who was 19 and than 20 years old did not start for a team that means he must suck, right?

[Prospect Dong]

1st where did I say anything about the all star game in the post you quoted?

But I have to ask why do you insist on it only being 2 or 3 years, why cannot you not wait until the guy is at least entering his physical prime?

borderline all star type in a couple of years if he is allowed to play his game

With someone offering 12-1 odds, that all seems like the kind of prediction that would encourage me, at least, to put my money where my mouth was. Either that, or start backpedaling.

I'm sure he's a nice prospect, but I'm even more sure you're overrating him in this thread with the talk of "borderline all star" and not trading him unless you get a lotto pick.

[MagicFan32]

i'd rather have fournier at his price, instead of henderson at his disgusting contract. fournier is 21, has good per36 numbers and fits in with the roster long term.

[Village Idiot]

I'm very disappointed that Portland couldn't or wouldn't put together a better package for Afflalo. Do we want to win now or not? He would seemingly be the perfect fit as a third swing-man.

Magic fans, would you have preferred McCollum and T-Rob or Fournier, the #56 and cap-space?

[The Rebel]

1st where did I say anything about the all star game in the post you quoted?

But I have to ask why do you insist on it only being 2 or 3 years, why cannot you not wait until the guy is at least entering his physical prime?

borderline all star type in a couple of years if he is allowed to play his game

With someone offering 12-1 odds, that all seems like the kind of prediction that would encourage me, at least, to put my money where my mouth was. Either that, or start backpedaling.

I'm sure he's a nice prospect, but I'm even more sure you're overrating him in this thread with the talk of "borderline all star" and not trading him unless you get a lotto pick.

Once again I do not do sig bets, and one of the reasons is guys like you who push for it and when they lose is never going to follow through. By the way why did you cut and paste different parts of different posts from different threads?

Fact is Fournier is a very good player, that needs to be in a system where he can play his game. He will be a borderline all star player if he is given minutes and allowed to play, don't like what I have to say than tell me why? If you know anything about him you should be able to make the argument, if you are just pushing me thinking it makes you look a bad ass than you are wasting your time, as you are just looking like someone trying to start crap over a player you obviously know nothing about.

[tiderulz]

So....looks like all Orlando wanted was cap space. For who I wonder? Bledsoe? Monroe? Lowry? Trade for Boozer/picks?

trust me, Magic fans still wondering about this. Im guessing it is to start on extension talks with Vucevic and Harris, while still have some cap room available, but we really have no idea.

[tiderulz]

I'm very disappointed that Portland couldn't or wouldn't put together a better package for Afflalo. Do we want to win now or not? He would seemingly be the perfect fit as a third swing-man.

Magic fans, would you have preferred McCollum and T-Rob or Fournier, the #56 and cap-space?

a lot of Magic fans really liked McCollum and wanted to find a way back into the draft and get him last year.

[mr2good]

So....looks like all Orlando wanted was cap space. For who I wonder? Bledsoe? Monroe? Lowry? Trade for Boozer/picks?

trust me, Magic fans still wondering about this. Im guessing it is to start on extension talks with Vucevic and Harris, while still have some cap room available, but we really have no idea.

I agree that our cap will be used to keep our own guys. Rob will spend smart in free agency every year like the spurs do, finding great undervalued FA's that can support their core.

Payton
Dipo
Harris
Gordon
Vuc

Is one hell of a core and in 1-2 years will be a force in the east. Rob learned from his mentor RC Buford to take high iq guys who are athletic freaks and defense oriented. Sounds like Kawhi Leonard, once he harnessed a jumper he's all of the sudden a top player in the league. These guys will grow and learn how to play offense together.

[Prospect Dong]

1st where did I say anything about the all star game in the post you quoted?

But I have to ask why do you insist on it only being 2 or 3 years, why cannot you not wait until the guy is at least entering his physical prime?

borderline all star type in a couple of years if he is allowed to play his game

With someone offering 12-1 odds, that all seems like the kind of prediction that would encourage me, at least, to put my money where my mouth was. Either that, or start backpedaling.

I'm sure he's a nice prospect, but I'm even more sure you're overrating him in this thread with the talk of "borderline all star" and not trading him unless you get a lotto pick.

Once again I do not do sig bets, and one of the reasons is guys like you who push for it and when they lose is never going to follow through. By the way why did you cut and paste different parts of different posts from different threads?

Fact is Fournier is a very good player, that needs to be in a system where he can play his game. He will be a borderline all star player if he is given minutes and allowed to play, don't like what I have to say than tell me why? If you know anything about him you should be able to make the argument, if you are just pushing me thinking it makes you look a bad ass than you are wasting your time, as you are just looking like someone trying to start crap over a player you obviously know nothing about.

All those quotes are from them same thread Rebel. This one. Seriously, you need to be able to remember what you said five minutes ago if you're going to get pissy when someone reminds you of it.

And it's probably not ok to preemptively accuse someone of welshing on their bets - if you don't like backing up your opinions, fine, but don't try to pretend it's my fault you're not comfortable doing it.

So, I feel like I know more about Fournier's future than you do, even with all your exposure to him, because I know he's not going to approach all star status in the next couple of years and you think he will. We could argue the details, which I'm sure you're very familiar with, but there's no point because you're so wrong about the big picture that you've taken to denying your own posts and pretending they came from another thread.

Anyway, I guess we can both just keep an eye on the all star game rosters for the next couple of seasons...

[torotoe]

Well... it's clear as day that RealGM values Fournier less than Rob Hennigan did on thursday. If Afflalo was traded for #14, #56 and cap space, nobody would blink.