Remember the Johnson to Nets trade???

[HornetJail]

Let's not forget that Brooklyn plays in the East.
Are there 7 teams CLEARLY better than the Bulls?
With the George injury and loss of Stephenson (and possible rebuild on the loom), you can pretty much count the Pacers out.

I see..

CHI
CLE
CHA
WASH
TOR
ATL

After that, is there any team that is clearly better and more equipped to be in the playoffs?
Of course, I'm assuming KG and Lopez can be healthy for majority of the season and Johnson continues to tear it up.
I actually see both NY and BKN in the playoffs as 7th-8th seeds, or at least fighting for them.

Chicago, Cleveland, Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Atlanta, and Miami are all clearly better. No contest. Even with only 55 games a year of Wade- Deng, Bosh, and a solid supporting cast should at least get the job done. I don't think the Raptors repeat their success this year, but they figure to be a playoff team again if nothing else. If Lopez and Williams continue to be their unreliable selves health-wise, KG continues playing like a 55-year-old, they lose Pierce, Blatche, and Livingston for nothing in return (already done), then I easily slide Detroit, New York, maybe Indiana if they don't have a complete crisis, or (if their young guys progress enough( even Boston or Orlando, ahead of Brooklyn. It would surprise me to see them lower than 10th, but it's entirely possible that they fall as low as 12th. I think Hollins is a better coach than Kidd was in those first disastrous months of the season, but he's no miracle worker. Nets aren't making the playoffs, and it probably won't be a nail-biter either.

So sig bet?
Any team that misses in the East is down a couple slots to West teams.
Mid lotto 6-9 range...you win
Not that range...I win.

I don't know if I'm sure enough on that, because of how turbulent the Nets have been. That seems to be the best case scenario for the Hawks, but there's always a good chance Williams and Lopez are better than they were last season (when both were more or less non-existent- Lopez was great when he played but rarely played, Williams was "meh" when he played). If Lopez misses half or more of the season, and Williams has a repeat season, only then do I put them in the 6-8 range. Otherwise, they may contend for a playoff spot but will be on the outside looking in for sure.

[bondom34]

DO IT DO IT DO IT!!!!!

No pressure .

[Prokorov]

[
Houston #1 - protected
Pick swap options '14+'15
Farmar, Morrow, Petro, Stevenson, J.Williams
#2 the league supposedly forced BK to add

Done to keep Deron.
Considering he's been our best player and Deron stayed...oh well.

That still doesn't change that is was a DRASTIC overpay. we gave up a first round, 2 pick swap options, and 100% expiring money for at the time arguably the worst contract in the league (4/90+).

Do you honestly think that Ferry is gonna say no if King refused to give the Rockets pick? OR refused the pick swaps? I understand we were under pressure to make mvoes to keep Deron around, and at the time we couldnt have predicted deron's demise, but we had plenty of other options. there were other avenus where expiring money + a 1st rounder could have gotten us an very good player. The hawks on the other hand, no one was giving them 100% expirings and picks/pick options for joe johnson. most would likely require the hawks to give them a pick to absorb johnson.

A bad GM gives up that same deal without the pick swap
A average GM gives up that same deal without any picks/swaps involved
A good GM makes that same deal and gets picks/swaps back from the hawks

A Billy King gives it all up, the expirings, the picks, and the swaps

I Love Joe Johnson, my favorite current net. he has been our best player since moving to brooklyn. I'm glad he is here, but it doesnt change that we really overpaid for him

[Prokorov]

If Lopez and Williams continue to be their unreliable selves health-wise, KG continues playing like a 55-year-old, they lose Pierce, Blatche, and Livingston for nothing in return (already done), then I easily slide Detroit, New York, maybe Indiana if they don't have a complete crisis, or (if their young guys progress enough( even Boston or Orlando, ahead of Brooklyn. It would surprise me to see them lower than 10th, but it's entirely possible that they fall as low as 12th. I think Hollins is a better coach than Kidd was in those first disastrous months of the season, but he's no miracle worker. Nets aren't making the playoffs, and it probably won't be a nail-biter either.

This is kind of skewing things, by throwing out all the bad while not acknowledging any of the good and painting some positives as negatives.

-Dwill was trash last season and lopez missed the entire year, yet we still made the playoffs. so clearly, those 2 being injured/terrible isnt as big a factor as you'd like to make it out. there are also several nets fans who believe we are better off without lopez(myself included)

-KG missed 30 games last season, looked awul and had by far the worst season of his career. yet we still made the playoffs, and played our best stretch of basketball the last 22 games of the regular season with him out to injury.

-You mentioned Blatche, Pierce, and Livingston being moved, but no mention of Jack or Bogdanovic coming in, or how blatche's departure gets Plumlee an increase of minutes.

So basically, Dwill ALREADY sucked last year. Lopez ALREADY missed all of last year. KG was ALREADY broken down with 1 foot in the grave last year.

I'm just not sure how going from Pierce/Livingston/Blatche to Jack/Bogdanovic/Plumlee is somehow taking us from a mid playoff team to a lottery team. Livingston had long stretches where he struggled. Blatche was awful for most of the year and was told to take a leave of absence due to his off court issues at one point. Pierce was good for us, but was still just a glorified role player.

Joe Johnson did the heavy lifting last year. if you want to predict joe will fall apart, then yea, we'd be a lottery team, but he is still in great shape and his game relies on skill/size not athleticism.

[Prokorov]

Chicago, Cleveland, Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Atlanta, and Miami are all clearly better. No contest. Even with only 55 games a year of Wade- Deng, Bosh, and a solid supporting cast should at least get the job done. I don't think the Raptors repeat their success this year, but they figure to be a playoff team again if nothing else. If Lopez and Williams continue to be their unreliable selves health-wise, KG continues playing like a 55-year-old, they lose Pierce, Blatche, and Livingston for nothing in return (already done), then I easily slide Detroit, New York, maybe Indiana if they don't have a complete crisis, or (if their young guys progress enough( even Boston or Orlando, ahead of Brooklyn. It would surprise me to see them lower than 10th, but it's entirely possible that they fall as low as 12th. I think Hollins is a better coach than Kidd was in those first disastrous months of the season, but he's no miracle worker. Nets aren't making the playoffs, and it probably won't be a nail-biter either.

So sig bet?
Any team that misses in the East is down a couple slots to West teams.
Mid lotto 6-9 range...you win
Not that range...I win.

I don't know if I'm sure enough on that, because of how turbulent the Nets have been. That seems to be the best case scenario for the Hawks, but there's always a good chance Williams and Lopez are better than they were last season (when both were more or less non-existent- Lopez was great when he played but rarely played, Williams was "meh" when he played). If Lopez misses half or more of the season, and Williams has a repeat season, only then do I put them in the 6-8 range. Otherwise, they may contend for a playoff spot but will be on the outside looking in for sure.

I'll make you a sign bet. if Lopez misses 60+ games i gaurantee the nets make the playoffs.

[HornetJail]

So sig bet?
Any team that misses in the East is down a couple slots to West teams.
Mid lotto 6-9 range...you win
Not that range...I win.

I don't know if I'm sure enough on that, because of how turbulent the Nets have been. That seems to be the best case scenario for the Hawks, but there's always a good chance Williams and Lopez are better than they were last season (when both were more or less non-existent- Lopez was great when he played but rarely played, Williams was "meh" when he played). If Lopez misses half or more of the season, and Williams has a repeat season, only then do I put them in the 6-8 range. Otherwise, they may contend for a playoff spot but will be on the outside looking in for sure.

I'll make you a sign bet. if Lopez misses 60+ games i gaurantee the nets make the playoffs.

You think the Nets will make the playoffs WITHOUT Lopez?

[Prokorov]

I don't know if I'm sure enough on that, because of how turbulent the Nets have been. That seems to be the best case scenario for the Hawks, but there's always a good chance Williams and Lopez are better than they were last season (when both were more or less non-existent- Lopez was great when he played but rarely played, Williams was "meh" when he played). If Lopez misses half or more of the season, and Williams has a repeat season, only then do I put them in the 6-8 range. Otherwise, they may contend for a playoff spot but will be on the outside looking in for sure.

I'll make you a sign bet. if Lopez misses 60+ games i gaurantee the nets make the playoffs.

You think the Nets will make the playoffs WITHOUT Lopez?

Yes, I think we are a (much) better team without him. As we were last season. I also think there is a good chance we miss the playoffs if he stays healthy and gets heavy minutes. I think his impact is nowhere near what his stats suggest. His scoring while super efficient changes the way his 4 teammates play, and does so in a negative manner. He ball stops a bit, and since he handled the double team so poorly, its hard to get motion going around him. you kind of just need to iso him on one side.

Defensively, in my opinion, he is among the worst starting 5's in the game at defending the pick and roll... so extreme to the point where it breaks down the defense so poorly that it makes it near impossible to cover up for. he is a decent post defeder with some size, but since there are really no back to the basket bigs anymore, that really becomes irrelevant

I think his overall value is pretty nuetral, and you have to REALLY change the way you play and you need specific types around him to make up for his defensive rebounding and pick and roll and team defense as well as his requirements on offense.

I think the nets are much better with plumlee or KG at center. And I dont think it was a coincidence that we were a poor team last season before he got injured, IN SPITE of him putting up outstanding stats. I know there were alot of changes after he went down that led to our turnaround... but those were the kind of changes you cant make with lopez still in the lineup. you cant put a 6'7" SF at the 4 next to lopez, because of his rebounding issues. you cant run alot of motion on offense wit lopez, because of his slow decision making, inability to handle the double team, and reliance on isolation scoring. and you arent generating turnovers and getting out in transition with him as a 5 in your small ball lineup.

thats the issue with brook. you cant be very fleixible or adjust much. you have to play a certain way, with certain specific types around him, and have to bite the bullet big time on defense