Demarcus Cousins Value Score

[jimmy keys]

I am old school I want that top big man on my team and Cousins is the best big man in the game. I voted Curry but as a blazer fan I would trade Lillard though I doubt many blazer fans would agree with me.

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I am old school I want that top big man on my team and Cousins is the best big man in the game. I voted Curry but as a blazer fan I would trade Lillard though I doubt many blazer fans would agree with me.

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

I am no NBA history scholar... but from what I've read bigs didn't really focus on defense until Russell.

[SideSwipe]

I went Holiday. I have seen a fair amount of Cousins play and while I have seen good bits here and there, I have not seen enough to warrant the value many of you are placing on him. He wasn't dominant at the world cup and didn't have enough presence to impose his will on the game. Manimal and the Brow did.

Also, his pouty emotions and lack of maturity(though I did notice some growth here) keep his value down.

I am not even that huge of a Horford fan, but if I'm a gm, I think I would be willing to give slightly more for Horford in trade than Cousins all things considered.

If cousins continues to progress, then maybe, but not now.

[Takingbaconback]

I am old school I want that top big man on my team and Cousins is the best big man in the game. I voted Curry but as a blazer fan I would trade Lillard though I doubt many blazer fans would agree with me.

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

Cousins is getting lynched pinned by Marc Gasol and AD. I doubt he will ever be the best big man in the league. M Gasol will still probably be the best for about a year or two until AD takes over. Yeah he's promising but what is his elite "go-to" strength? Doesn't have great control/footwork inside, isn't a great perimeter shooter, isn't a stout rim protector, or a fantastic rebounder (although he is decent to good all around). I would probably say he's the third best C if we are counting AD, but he struggles mightily with consistency and he still needs to elucidate his identity on the court.

[boogie-reke]

Isn't a fantastic rebounder? doesn't have great footwork?

What in the world? Who the hell have you been watching? Are you kidding me?

[bpcox05]

I am old school I want that top big man on my team and Cousins is the best big man in the game. I voted Curry but as a blazer fan I would trade Lillard though I doubt many blazer fans would agree with me.

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, and Derrick Rose are a few that won the MVP award in the last 10 years with below average to average defense. Come on now.

But that's not even the point with Cousins. Cousins made great strides last year with his defense. His post defense was very good. He rarely bit on fakes and was very difficult to back down. He would keep his hands straight up and force his opponent to shoot over his long frame (6'11"; 7'6" wingspan). He also had a knack for poking the ball away when his man was backing him down or trying to take him off the dribble.

His defensive rotations were also much improved this year, and he was the league leader in charges (which can be viewed as better than a block because your team automatically gets the ball). You can tell he's beginning to put it all together defensively. He even became more of a shot blocking presence this year and altered numerous shots.

The only thing he remained weak in was his pick and roll defense, and he has come out and said that it's something he needs to work on defensively.

His defense was even stronger in the FIBA World Cup. Part of it is chalked up to the level of competition, part of it is chalked up to competent teammates, and part of it is chalked up to being asked to focus more on defense rather than offense. I was interested to see how Cuz would do knowing Coach K and Colangelo love to use their guards and wings for the bulk of their scoring. The result? A very effective, defensive player in Cousins.

I'm excited to see how much more he has improved on the defensive side of the ball come opening day.

[bpcox05]

I went Holiday. I have seen a fair amount of Cousins play and while I have seen good bits here and there, I have not seen enough to warrant the value many of you are placing on him. He wasn't dominant at the world cup and didn't have enough presence to impose his will on the game. Manimal and the Brow did.

Also, his pouty emotions and lack of maturity(though I did notice some growth here) keep his value down.

I am not even that huge of a Horford fan, but if I'm a gm, I think I would be willing to give slightly more for Horford in trade than Cousins all things considered.

If cousins continues to progress, then maybe, but not now.

Um Cousins was a stud during the tournament. I'm not sure what you were watching.

Per36 numbers from the FIBA World Cup below:

Cousins: .71 FG% / .67 FT% / 25.3 PPG / 17.0 RPG / 2.6 APG / 3.5 SPG / 1.7 BPG
Davis: .55 FG% / .75 FT% / 22.5 PPG / 10.4 RPG / 1.4 APG / 1.6 SPG / 3.9 BPG
Faried: .64 FG% / .67 FT% / 20.6 PPG / 12.9 RPG / 1.1 APG / 0.9 SPG / 0.9 BPG

Yeah, it's too bad Cousins wasn't able to play up to Davis' or Faried's level...

[bpcox05]

I am old school I want that top big man on my team and Cousins is the best big man in the game. I voted Curry but as a blazer fan I would trade Lillard though I doubt many blazer fans would agree with me.

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

Cousins is getting lynched pinned by Marc Gasol and AD. I doubt he will ever be the best big man in the league. M Gasol will still probably be the best for about a year or two until AD takes over. Yeah he's promising but what is his elite "go-to" strength? Doesn't have great control/footwork inside, isn't a great perimeter shooter, isn't a stout rim protector, or a fantastic rebounder (although he is decent to good all around). I would probably say he's the third best C if we are counting AD, but he struggles mightily with consistency and he still needs to elucidate his identity on the court.

What? You're not serious, are you?

His elite "go-to" strength is that he is an elite "go-to" option. His ability to back down the smaller guys and bully his way for an easy 2, to take the bigger/slower guys off the dribble with his great handles, and to use his array of moves to score on excellent defenders make him a legitimate #1 option.

Doesn't have great control/footwork inside? He has excellent footwork, and is one of the reasons his moves are so effective.

Isn't a great perimeter shooter? Cousins is an excellent perimeter shooter. I read somewhere that he came in 2nd or 3rd in the USA National Team 3 point competition, but besides that. He takes most his jumpers from the top of the key. When he takes jumpers near the baseline, it's usually a bad shot in that the shot clock is winding down, he's doubled, a move didn't work, etc. but when he's actually set at the top of the key, he is one of the best shooting centers from that spot (47%). http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=202326

Isn't a stout rim protector? Not many are, but he has improved defensively and improved as a shot blocker this season. We'll have to see how much better he can become in this department, but he has come out and said that he needs to be the anchor of this defense and that he needs to dictate the energy and effort level.

Isn't a fantastic rebounder?!?! He is one of the best rebounders in the game! This one made me seriously doubt your credibility. Drummond and Jordan were the only two bigs that averaged more rebounds per minute last year. Cousins is an excellent rebounding big.

[jhern87]

If Cousins was as good as some of you guys are claiming, the Kings wouldn't be so bad. He'd be causing double teams and making teammates better but he's still just trying to make the playoffs for the first time.

[Jaseface]

Tricky one.

Cousins arguably has more talent than anyone on the list, Curry included. But he is, indeed, a knucklehead. He could potentially get your coach fired or create a toxic environment in your locker room. If he had the demeanor of Horford, he would be incredible. I can see someone voting Curry, but I wouldn't personally put him that high.

[Takingbaconback]

Where's this coming from? How is Cousins the best big in the league? That's ridiculous.

I am old school too and I want my best big man to play defence.

You can't be the best big/wing/guard in the NBA with average defence. That's never happened, ever!

Cousins is getting lynched pinned by Marc Gasol and AD. I doubt he will ever be the best big man in the league. M Gasol will still probably be the best for about a year or two until AD takes over. Yeah he's promising but what is his elite "go-to" strength? Doesn't have great control/footwork inside, isn't a great perimeter shooter, isn't a stout rim protector, or a fantastic rebounder (although he is decent to good all around). I would probably say he's the third best C if we are counting AD, but he struggles mightily with consistency and he still needs to elucidate his identity on the court.

What? You're not serious, are you?

His elite "go-to" strength is that he is an elite "go-to" option. His ability to back down the smaller guys and bully his way for an easy 2, to take the bigger/slower guys off the dribble with his great handles, and to use his array of moves to score on excellent defenders make him a legitimate #1 option.

Doesn't have great control/footwork inside? He has excellent footwork, and is one of the reasons his moves are so effective.

Isn't a great perimeter shooter? Cousins is an excellent perimeter shooter. I read somewhere that he came in 2nd or 3rd in the USA National Team 3 point competition, but besides that. He takes most his jumpers from the top of the key. When he takes jumpers near the baseline, it's usually a bad shot in that the shot clock is winding down, he's doubled, a move didn't work, etc. but when he's actually set at the top of the key, he is one of the best shooting centers from that spot (47%). http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=202326

Isn't a stout rim protector? Not many are, but he has improved defensively and improved as a shot blocker this season. We'll have to see how much better he can become in this department, but he has come out and said that he needs to be the anchor of this defense and that he needs to dictate the energy and effort level.

Isn't a fantastic rebounder?!?! He is one of the best rebounders in the game! This one made me seriously doubt your credibility. Drummond and Jordan were the only two bigs that averaged more rebounds per minute last year. Cousins is an excellent rebounding big.

You sure throw the word "excellent" out a lot. I claimed he was not GREAT at those things. Look at his shooting % at diff distances. He is a decent big man shooter but he isnt a great or excellent option.

He also doesnt have excellent footwork, he has good enough feet with his height to be a good scorer inside but great footwork is like duncan or gasol brothers.

Then rebounding is an actual skill not just about numbers and height. He is nowhere near the prowess of AD, Love, Faried when it comes to voxing out consistently and anticipating where the ball is going.

Again I said he is good all around but is not great at these things, it is obvious when you watch him play. Some days he's shooting way too many shots outside of the paint, some days he looks slow to the ball and not impacting the game. Sure his handles are better than most big man but it isnt good enough for him to use it enough and effectively. Still needs to figure out how he can estabish himself consistently.

[bpcox05]

You sure throw the word "excellent" out a lot. I claimed he was not GREAT at those things. Look at his shooting % at diff distances. He is a decent big man shooter but he isnt a great or excellent option.

I explained the differences in shooting percentages already, but I guess it makes sense to ignore arguments that disprove your own...

When he is on the wings, he usually has the ball in his hands and is taking shots off the dribble. He's not a very good shooter off the dribble, but then again how many 6'11" 270 lbs centers are? These shots usually come when the shot clock is winding down when they need to get a shot up.

When Cousins is as the top of the key, he is money. Because he's open and/or his feet are set. Most people would say the Gasol brothers are great shooters for their position. However, their numbers aren't nearly as impressive as Cousins from the top of the key.
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2200
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=201188

He also doesnt have excellent footwork, he has good enough feet with his height to be a good scorer inside but great footwork is like duncan or gasol brothers.

I disagree with your assessment and so would many others...
http://www.bleedblackandpurple.com/2014 ... -best.html
http://aroyalpain.com/2012/03/04/nba-sc ... n-mchales/
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/demarcus-cousins
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeM ... sins-1318/
http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/sp ... badraft/5/
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/3/22 ... ct-profile
https://twitter.com/NBA/status/16728498651

I would recommend hitting "CTRL" + "F" and searching for footwork

Then rebounding is an actual skill not just about numbers and height. He is nowhere near the prowess of AD, Love, Faried when it comes to voxing out consistently and anticipating where the ball is going.

No way. Cousins doesn't play above the rim like Drummond, Jordan, or Howard. He has to earn his rebounds by being technically sound and boxing out his man. He consistently gets his body on a man and uses his great instincts to collect boards. He uses his strength and instincts to dominate the offensive glass.

Attacking his rebounding when it is one of the strongest parts of his game makes you come off like you don't know what you're talking about.

Again I said he is good all around but is not great at these things, it is obvious when you watch him play. Some days he's shooting way too many shots outside of the paint,

Does he take bad shots from time to time? Sure. But if you have noticed, he has been able to increase every season he's played. He's playing much smarter than he used to and is limiting those bad shots, but you make it sound like he often has days where he takes nothing but bad shots which is just not true. Superstars take bad shots all the time, but that doesn't mean they are playing inconsistently.

some days he looks slow to the ball and not impacting the game.

I'm sorry, but all Cousins literally has to do is be in a game to impact it. Don't try to play him off as some sluggish guy that shows up when he wants to. He is an extremely compeitive player who absolutely hates to lose. There are people that don't like to lose and then there are people who hate to lose. Cousins belongs to the latter.

Sure his handles are better than most big man but it isnt good enough for him to use it enough and effectively.

What? I'm so confused how you are saying this like it's a fact. Cousins has excellent handles for a center (and I mean excellent). Whenever he faces guys that might be more difficult to take them in the post he brings them out to the perimeter and uses his quickness and handles to get by them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28xEJgN_Fok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6k1kONpbK0
http://thebiglead.com/2012/03/23/demarc ... nter-ever/

Still needs to figure out how he can estabish himself consistently.

Cousins was a very consistent player last season. I'm not sure what you're referring to. You can't average 25.3 PTS, 13.0 REB, 3.2 AST, 1.7 STL, and 1.4 BLK per 36 minutes and not be consistent. For christ sake, he had the third most double doubles last year (53 double doubles out of 71 games = 75%). And Love was the only player who had a higher double/double percentage(65 double doubles out of 77 games = 84%).

It really does seem to come off like you don't know much about Cousins. Watching a few more games would go a long way.

[bpcox05]

If Cousins was as good as some of you guys are claiming, the Kings wouldn't be so bad. He'd be causing double teams and making teammates better but he's still just trying to make the playoffs for the first time.

Right, because a team is just about one player.

Cousins does draw double teams and even triple teams at times. His supporting cast is what needs to pick up the slack. There's only so much Cousins can do (which happens to be a lot), but one guy will never be enough. You need a team. When Cousins would draw doubles and triples, he would have the luxury of kicking the ball out to the 28th worst three point shooting team in the league. That's right. Only the Smith, Monroe, Drummond led Pistons and D-League Sixers were worse from beyond the arc last year. It made it very difficult to punish teams that would slack off and double Cousins. If you put some more shooters around Cousins, you're already winning more games.

If you want to know the other reason why the Kings haven't been successful, look no other place than defense. They were 7th worst at giving up the most points (103.4). If it weren't for their own record in the 2012-13 and 2011-12 seasons, that would have been bad enough to earn them last place in those years. The Kings have been a bad defensive team for awhile. It's very hard to win games when you're supporting cast can't keep their man in front of them (thus causing Cousins to shift and have the opportunity to pick up more fouls) or are slow on their rotations (when Cousins does shift, his team has a hard time shifting to his man).

You put a team of Darren Collison, Danny Green, Rudy Gay, Taj Gibson, DeMarcus Cousins on the floor and you instantly have a team that will win more games because of perimeter shooting and competent defense.

[SideSwipe]

I went Holiday. I have seen a fair amount of Cousins play and while I have seen good bits here and there, I have not seen enough to warrant the value many of you are placing on him. He wasn't dominant at the world cup and didn't have enough presence to impose his will on the game. Manimal and the Brow did.

Also, his pouty emotions and lack of maturity(though I did notice some growth here) keep his value down.

I am not even that huge of a Horford fan, but if I'm a gm, I think I would be willing to give slightly more for Horford in trade than Cousins all things considered.

If cousins continues to progress, then maybe, but not now.

Um Cousins was a stud during the tournament. I'm not sure what you were watching.

Per36 numbers from the FIBA World Cup below:

Cousins: .71 FG% / .67 FT% / 25.3 PPG / 17.0 RPG / 2.6 APG / 3.5 SPG / 1.7 BPG
Davis: .55 FG% / .75 FT% / 22.5 PPG / 10.4 RPG / 1.4 APG / 1.6 SPG / 3.9 BPG
Faried: .64 FG% / .67 FT% / 20.6 PPG / 12.9 RPG / 1.1 APG / 0.9 SPG / 0.9 BPG

Yeah, it's too bad Cousins wasn't able to play up to Davis' or Faried's level...

Yeah, I'm guessing you did not watch him play. Cousins minutes mostly came after the games were won against the lower-level competition. I love how you only did per 36 stats, which makes it easier to hide his turnovers, and the fact that he couldn't earn more minutes over Faried and Davis.

Look Cousins shows some nice skills from time to time, but he is not consistent, he is pouty and despite his physical attributes he was not able to impose his will on the games. I watched them all at FIBA, and watched him 5 or 6 times last year, and followed his box scores.

I will stick by my statement 100% I would not offer more for him than Al Horford in trade.

[bpcox05]

Yeah, I'm guessing you did not watch him play.

No, I watched all nine games and the stats back up what I saw.

Cousins minutes mostly came after the games were won against the lower-level competition.

So you're saying that after we played the worse opponents in the tournament then that's when Cousins saw more minutes thus making his better stats more impressive? Or are you saying that the starters would get a big enough lead in the opening minutes that the game was already out of reach? Either way, both are false.

16, 13, 11, 12 ,15, 14, 13, 13, 17 - that is the minute distribution for Cousins. Seems pretty consistent to me.

Our first half, specifically, our first quarter was our roughest period of play throughout the tournament, so don't give me this "the game was out of reach" argument when Cousins would come in. Our second unit often times was the unit that would get us the lead.

I love how you only did per 36 stats, which makes it easier to hide his turnovers, and the fact that he couldn't earn more minutes over Faried and Davis.

I use per 36 stats to put all 3 guys on a level playing field. Looking into it any further is just plain foolish. It's not my fault the numbers are what they are. Blame Cousins.

The reason Cousins doesn't start/get as many minutes is because Coach K likes his bigs to be athletic who get out on the break and finish above the rim. This is something Cousins is not, but just because Cousins doesn't fit that type of player, it doesn't mean he can't/won't be a very effective player when he was out there.

Look Cousins shows some nice skills from time to time, but he is not consistent

Shows some nice skills from time to time? I didn't know that's how people talk about the best offensive center in the game and perhaps the best all around center in the game after his defensive performance last year and in FIBA.

he is pouty

So? Just because you're pout, it doesn't make you an ineffective player. Look at Duncan. He's always been a pouty player.

Besides Cousins had continued to mature every year since coming into the league (most noticeably this last year). It's hard for those who haven't watched every one of his games to know that and see that progression. Especially with the media taking shots at him every change they get.

and despite his physical attributes he was not able to impose his will on the games. I watched them all at FIBA, and watched him 5 or 6 times last year, and followed his box scores.

I'm sorry, but the tape and the numbers say otherwise. I don't know what else can be said on the matter.

I will stick by my statement 100% I would not offer more for him than Al Horford in trade.

You're entitled to your opinion, but Cousins is already one of the most dominant big men in the league and is on the the road to being the most dominant big man in the league. To me, those types of players are valued a little higher than Horford.

[Beam Me Up Foxy]

Haters are gonna hate.

[SideSwipe]

Haters are gonna hate.

Homers gonna home

[SideSwipe]

You're entitled to your opinion, but Cousins is already one of the most dominant big men in the league and is on the the road to being the most dominant big man in the league. To me, those types of players are valued a little higher than Horford.

These games were won in the first three quarters. If you had watched the games you would have known that. The last game was won in the first half. Also, you are not talking about his per36 turnover rate. For a center, that's not good. The defenses flustered him. In a couple of years if he can calm his game down, the above statement will be true, but for right now Horford is the choice.

Harden controlled the game; Kyrie Did, Manimal Did and Davis did. Nobody else controlled the game offensively or defensively like those guys. All of this best young big man in the game business needs to simmer down a little bit. I'm not sure I would take Cousins over the very raw but promising Andre Drummond.

[jbk1234]

This entire poll is so subjective to begin with. Does Curry really have more trade Value than LMA? How about Ariza and Wes Matthews?

[Cruel_Ruin]

Harden controlled the game; Kyrie Did, Manimal Did and Davis did. Nobody else controlled the game offensively or defensively like those guys. All of this best young big man in the game business needs to simmer down a little bit. I'm not sure I would take Cousins over the very raw but promising Andre Drummond.

Lol what? Cousins dominated inside the paint every time he came in the game with his defense, rebounding and interior scoring. I could dig up multiple articles, quotes from Coach K, etc. How in the world is 25 points per 36 on 70% shooting not controlling the game?