Knicks / Sixers / Mavs Deal

[avon barksdale]

A backup big is definitely needed by Dallas however felton is an asset to us. As much as he sucked last year his assist to turnover ratio was still nearly 3:1 and our offensive system is far more efficient than the Iso system the knicks run. Now I'm not saying he's a great player or even a real good one but with Harris and Nelson being injury prone and mekel being terrible, I trust that Rc can help feltons game a lot he could easily be a 10 3 5 guy shooting 43-44 from the floor and 35-36 from three in 25mpg here.

[Jaseface]

When it comes to Dallas trades, I trust Chuck's opinion.

That said, I like this deal a lot for the Mavericks. First of all, they unload Felton. Addition by subtraction right there. Second, Shumpert would be a nice fit next to Nelson. I like him as a defender better than Harris and offensively better than Jae. I think he would do well in a new setting, out of New York, on a team with some direction.

[the_process]

This would be ok at the deadline. Dallas might be a bit less enthused if they didn't get a full yr to audition Shumpert, but otherwise I think it's fine.

I'm sure the Knicks would give philly 2 million to save 20. I am a math genius.


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According to Knicks fans, they don't care about saving money or paying the repeater tax into infinity. So it's not necessarily true they would give 2 to save 20.

Also, if you expand this slightly...

BOS gets Amare for Wallace, Bass, and J. Anthony
DAL gets Bass for Felton, Ledo, and 2015 1st lotto protected
NYK gets Wallace, JRich, J. Anthony, and Ledo for Amare, Bargnani, and T. Antetokounmpo
PHI gets Bargnani, Felton, T. Antetokounmpo, and 2015 DAL 1st lotto protected for JRich

8m for a late first and a borderline prospect is infinitely better than 15m for a late 1st. Just saying.

[Ricepilar]

Why would the Knicks take Wallace?


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[moocow007]

Wow, very Knicks wish-list .....Philly get the two worst players in the deal and only get a lotter protected #1 ???

Gotta laugh at this one.

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

[moocow007]

Why would the Knicks take Wallace?


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Because the players on the other teams aren't bad and don't have bad contracts UNTIL they officially don the Knicks jersey? The conundrum is, what happens when they do become Knicks? Ahhhh...

[moocow007]

A backup big is definitely needed by Dallas however felton is an asset to us. As much as he sucked last year his assist to turnover ratio was still nearly 3:1 and our offensive system is far more efficient than the Iso system the knicks run. Now I'm not saying he's a great player or even a real good one but with Harris and Nelson being injury prone and mekel being terrible, I trust that Rc can help feltons game a lot he could easily be a 10 3 5 guy shooting 43-44 from the floor and 35-36 from three in 25mpg here.

Yes. Felton should be fine as a backup. Not sure with Ellis, Harris and Nelson there that there'll be much time for him at point but he can play SG some as well.

[skywalker33]

Wow, very Knicks wish-list .....Philly get the two worst players in the deal and only get a lotter protected #1 ???

Gotta laugh at this one.

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

No, but they are wishing to have some way to rid themselves of the dead-weight, over-paid salary of a player like Bargnani....and for a salary that they could easily waive w/o a 2nd thought. That is their true wish, Moultrie wouldn't even stay on the Knicks roster, we both know that !!

[HartfordWhalers]

Wow, very Knicks wish-list .....Philly get the two worst players in the deal and only get a lotter protected #1 ???

Gotta laugh at this one.

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

Swap Moultrie's highly offensive 1.1m salary for a top 55 protected 2nd.

[ckchen]

1. I don't see Dallas wanting to trade/dump Felton when their only other PG option is a often injured Jameer Nelson. Between the two of them and for the (somewhat) reasonable salaries, I don't see why Dallas would even try to trade Felton. It's not like dumping his salary lets them do anything with the money.

2. Also have no idea why Dallas would trade a lottery protected 1st rounder for Iman Shumpert. This is still Knicks fantasy land where they believe Shump can return a 1st round pick from anyone at this point. Shump is at the end of his rookie deal. Any team that trades for him has no guarantee to hold onto him, and frankly his production/injury history doesn't even warrant wanting to trade for him in the first place, especially when Dallas has Monta there playing 35+ MPG at SG and a newly signed Parsons at SF. This is Evan Turner all over again, except Shump hasn't even produced anywhere near ET's level. ET barely returned a 2nd draft pick. Why would anyone trade a protected 1st rounder for an inferior Shump?

3. In one of the subsequent deals, someone threw in Sims as an afterthought. It's scary to think, but Sims will likely start for the Sixers this year. They're not going throw in anything even remotely of value in a salary dump. At this point JRich or Moultrie are probably the only things that would go out for no return.

[moocow007]

Wow, very Knicks wish-list .....Philly get the two worst players in the deal and only get a lotter protected #1 ???

Gotta laugh at this one.

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

No, but they are wishing to have some way to rid themselves of the dead-weight, over-paid salary of a player like Bargnani....and for a salary that they could easily waive w/o a 2nd thought. That is their true wish, Moultrie wouldn't even stay on the Knicks roster, we both know that !!

But why would they need to trade their best perimeter defender to do so? Why not just waive Bargnani? The Knicks are trying to win right now. Carmelo Anthony has already been moved back to SF (Phil loves his big lineups). With Stoudemire and Jason Smith hardly known for their durability, they really don't have to shed Bargnani at all. That's the thing. At best he fits better in the Triangle. At worst he's an insurance policy in case Stoudemire and Smith get injured or banged up (everyone knows about Stoudemire's durability issues, but folks may not know that Jason Smith also is injury prone). Same with Dalembert at C wher Bargnani can also provide depth/insurance at. Bargnani is not worth a no.1 overall pick and he's been a disappointment based on what most everyone expected, but he's not useless.

[moocow007]

Wow, very Knicks wish-list .....Philly get the two worst players in the deal and only get a lotter protected #1 ???

Gotta laugh at this one.

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

Swap Moultrie's highly offensive 1.1m salary for a top 55 protected 2nd.

There's really no reason though. Folks hate Bargnani (including many Knick fans) but there really is no real need for the Knicks to look to shed his contract. For salary and tax reasons? For the last 13+ years Dolan have thumbed his nose at salaries and taxes in an attempt to win. Keeping Shumpert and having Bargnani at best as a viable fit in the Triangle and at worst an insurance policy at PF and C (the Knicks bigs are not the most durable bunch) is worth just keeping the two instead of bringing on Moultrie or a useless 2nd rounder. The only way this would have made sense was early in the offseason when this would have theoretically allowed them to get under the apron so they can do sign-and-trades. But at this point, there really aren't any real options left that would make shedding salary useful from a team building standpoint. They aren't getting Bledsoe in a sign-and-trade (not enough talent to offer the Suns)...what other free agent out there is worth needing to have this flexibility created for? Jordan Crawford?

[moocow007]

If the Knicks were financially like the Thunder or the Bucks or what not, then yes, this would be a trade that would likely very much interest them since it would save them money. But the Knicks are the absolute last team in the NBA that would think money saving first. They are currently the most valuable team. They charge the highest prices in the NBA for tickets (their nose bleed seats can cost more than some teams near courtside seats) and concessions. They have their own regional TV network. Their arena is funded partially by tax payers money. They are part of the Cablevision conglomerate which is one of the wealthiest holdings in the US. Dolan is an idiot who blows cash up the wazoo all over the place.

[Scoot McGroot]

Certainly seems like Philly should get more value out of this; not just for eating Barg's expiring contract, but for eating both this year and next year's salary of Ray Felton. I imagine they would want extra value for that 2nd year of Felton. A lotto protected 1st seems a little low for all that, even with the market for salary dumps tightening up a bit.

[skywalker33]

So the Knicks are wishing for a player that has shown nothing in 2 years in the NBA, that is poorly conditioned and that has violated the NBA drug policy 3 times in 2 years? Very odd wish, no? Wait...you mean you didn't know that Moultrie has been basically trying his best to throw his NBA career out the window since he set foot in Philly?

No, but they are wishing to have some way to rid themselves of the dead-weight, over-paid salary of a player like Bargnani....and for a salary that they could easily waive w/o a 2nd thought. That is their true wish, Moultrie wouldn't even stay on the Knicks roster, we both know that !!

But why would they need to trade their best perimeter defender to do so? Why not just waive Bargnani? The Knicks are trying to win right now. Carmelo Anthony has already been moved back to SF (Phil loves his big lineups). With Stoudemire and Jason Smith hardly known for their durability, they really don't have to shed Bargnani at all. That's the thing. At best he fits better in the Triangle. At worst he's an insurance policy in case Stoudemire and Smith get injured or banged up (everyone knows about Stoudemire's durability issues, but folks may not know that Jason Smith also is injury prone). Same with Dalembert at C wher Bargnani can also provide depth/insurance at. Bargnani is not worth a no.1 overall pick and he's been a disappointment based on what most everyone expected, but he's not useless.

If you waive Barg's, you'd have a $12M cap hit, waiving Moultrie hit $1.5M HUGE difference there bud. Plus it'd reduce the tax hit by probably another $20M, I'm sure Dolan would be all over that !! You defend Barg's but I'd bet you $1000 that the Knicks won't re-sign him when his contract ends, he's a big body with a big contract, not much more IMO. It'll be interesting to see him in the Triangle, but I doubt it salvages his career, would expect to see him back in Europe after his contract expires.

[Scoot McGroot]

A backup big is definitely needed by Dallas however felton is an asset to us. As much as he sucked last year his assist to turnover ratio was still nearly 3:1 and our offensive system is far more efficient than the Iso system the knicks run. Now I'm not saying he's a great player or even a real good one but with Harris and Nelson being injury prone and mekel being terrible, I trust that Rc can help feltons game a lot he could easily be a 10 3 5 guy shooting 43-44 from the floor and 35-36 from three in 25mpg here.

Easily? 10/3/5/44%/36% in 25 mpg would be the best season of his career, by far!


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[Scoot McGroot]

No, but they are wishing to have some way to rid themselves of the dead-weight, over-paid salary of a player like Bargnani....and for a salary that they could easily waive w/o a 2nd thought. That is their true wish, Moultrie wouldn't even stay on the Knicks roster, we both know that !!

But why would they need to trade their best perimeter defender to do so? Why not just waive Bargnani? The Knicks are trying to win right now. Carmelo Anthony has already been moved back to SF (Phil loves his big lineups). With Stoudemire and Jason Smith hardly known for their durability, they really don't have to shed Bargnani at all. That's the thing. At best he fits better in the Triangle. At worst he's an insurance policy in case Stoudemire and Smith get injured or banged up (everyone knows about Stoudemire's durability issues, but folks may not know that Jason Smith also is injury prone). Same with Dalembert at C wher Bargnani can also provide depth/insurance at. Bargnani is not worth a no.1 overall pick and he's been a disappointment based on what most everyone expected, but he's not useless.

If you waive Barg's, you'd have a $12M cap hit, waiving Moultrie hit $1.5M HUGE difference there bud. Plus it'd reduce the tax hit by probably another $20M, I'm sure Dolan would be all over that !! You defend Barg's but I'd bet you $1000 that the Knicks won't re-sign him when his contract ends, he's a big body with a big contract, not much more IMO. It'll be interesting to see him in the Triangle, but I doubt it salvages his career, would expect to see him back in Europe after his contract expires.

Close to $36m in luxury tax savings. Add in the close to $14m in pure salary savings, and it's almost $50m in cash savings


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[avon barksdale]

A backup big is definitely needed by Dallas however felton is an asset to us. As much as he sucked last year his assist to turnover ratio was still nearly 3:1 and our offensive system is far more efficient than the Iso system the knicks run. Now I'm not saying he's a great player or even a real good one but with Harris and Nelson being injury prone and mekel being terrible, I trust that Rc can help feltons game a lot he could easily be a 10 3 5 guy shooting 43-44 from the floor and 35-36 from three in 25mpg here.

Easily? 10/3/5/44%/36% in 25 mpg would be the best season of his career, by far!


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He was 12-4-6 in 09-10 with better percentages than what I listed so it's definitely doable and carlisle is an offensive coach this will be the most offensive talent hes ever played with so I doubt itll be a stretch like u assume

[slicedbread2]

It's ok. I like the premise of the deal, but I'd rather send Moultrie to Dallas as they need a backup big and Carlisle could try and work his magic on Moultire as a fresh start may be what he needs to thrive. Won't bet house money on that though.

For New York, I think Phil has made it a priority to be responsible financially and due to the crippling repeater tax penalties, I think he'd be open to this. Personally, if I were him, I wait till 2016 to strike as I think that will be the most loaded free agency class in years. Plus you get rid of Primo boy or Lolnani.

For Dallas, giving up a lotto protected first to dump Felton ain't great, but I think they'd rather move him plus they have Harris and Nelson as stopgaps to run the point for now.

Philadelphia would do this if it's a deadline deal, but early in the year? Yea they'd want a bit more like cash to cover Felton's deal/an additional pick or prospect.

[Scoot McGroot]

A backup big is definitely needed by Dallas however felton is an asset to us. As much as he sucked last year his assist to turnover ratio was still nearly 3:1 and our offensive system is far more efficient than the Iso system the knicks run. Now I'm not saying he's a great player or even a real good one but with Harris and Nelson being injury prone and mekel being terrible, I trust that Rc can help feltons game a lot he could easily be a 10 3 5 guy shooting 43-44 from the floor and 35-36 from three in 25mpg here.

Easily? 10/3/5/44%/36% in 25 mpg would be the best season of his career, by far!


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He was 12-4-6 in 09-10 with better percentages than what I listed so it's definitely doable and carlisle is an offensive coach this will be the most offensive talent hes ever played with so I doubt itll be a stretch like u assume

He was 12/3.5/5.5/46%/39% on 33 minutes a night. You're asking him to do just as well, in only 75% of the playing time, when that was BY FAR his best season in terms of shooting percentages and whatnot. And 5 years ago. That'd be wonderful, and I respect Carlisle more than most as I saw him work wonders with my Pacers for many years. But, take out that one outlier season in his career, and he's shooting a career 40.7% otherwise.

Also, Carlisle was always a defensive coach in Indy and Detroit. He was technically the offensive assistant under Bird, but he talked often of how that went against his nature. Has he completely changed his style this late in his coaching career?