Source: Wolves Offer Max deal for Bledsoe

[AQuintus]

LaVine was pitched as a point guard,

By who?

he has SG size I was just going by the draft info on him.

He was drafted to play SG, but he'll likely play some spot minutes at PG.

So he's gonna be a back up to Wiggins?

What? No. Wiggins is a SF. LaVine will backup Kevin Martin.

[basketballwacko2]

Humm seems the draft scouts had me all screwed up.

[loserX]

Damn the Wolves would be athletic.

I can't see Pekovic fitting with Phoenix (he doesn't really fit with Minny anymore either), but a Bledsoe for Pekovic+someone (Shabazz? Martin?) certainly has its merits. I wouldn't want to be the team to give Bledsoe a max deal, but I've come to grips with the fact that somebody is going to one way or another.

If you consider what Hayward and Parsons got, I'd definitely give it to Bledsoe who I think is worth more than those two guys. Funny, if Minny did offer him a max deal (which I think was being reported initially but apparently may have been false) will Phoenix match? I'm pretty sure before all is said and done, someone will, and then what are they going to do? Force a S & T with somebody? Should prove interesting.

But see, Hayward and Parson arnt worth max deals, there are just stupid GM's out there that are desperate and gave them those deals. Teams so far under the cap that they have money to blow, and when none of the top FA's are looking at your team, you get desperate and go all out for a mid-tier player. I put Bledsoe on Kyle Lowery's level, and we offered him the same contract that Lowery got, which is more than fair.

Genuine question: if all S&T possibilities fall through (seems likely at this point), and Bledsoe says "give me my max or I take the QO", what do you see Phoenix doing?

[thamadkant]

Not a follower of either team, but just throwing this idea out there. Who says no?

Eric Bledsoe, Gerald Green, Alex Len
for
Ricky Rubio, Kevin Martin, Nik Pekovic

Picks can be thrown whichever way deemed fit.

Suns GM probably stay silent waiting for Wolves GM to mention first rounders or Wiggins.... because that offer is not even worth consideration.

Bledsoe impacts the game so much more than Rubio... If Rubio was atleast Jason Kidd like in terms of being a 3pt threath and an elite team captain, then it'll be worth it.

Pekovic is a beast, but not the beast Suns want... they want a shot blocker who can also finish above the rim.... Dieng is a lot closer to what Suns want.

[Takingbaconback]

Not a follower of either team, but just throwing this idea out there. Who says no?

Eric Bledsoe, Gerald Green, Alex Len
for
Ricky Rubio, Kevin Martin, Nik Pekovic

Picks can be thrown whichever way deemed fit.

Suns GM probably stay silent waiting for Wolves GM to mention first rounders or Wiggins.... because that offer is not even worth consideration.

Bledsoe impacts the game so much more than Rubio... If Rubio was atleast Jason Kidd like in terms of being a 3pt threath and an elite team captain, then it'll be worth it.

Pekovic is a beast, but not the beast Suns want... they want a shot blocker who can also finish above the rim.... Dieng is a lot closer to what Suns want.

first round/Wiggins is not even close. That's never going to happen. Dieng probably not a guy wolves are going to give up to have to pay the max for EB and his significant injury risks. Nothing is going to happen and this is just a rumor for certain camps to try and utilize.

[HartfordWhalers]

LaVine was pitched as a point guard,

By who?

LaVine himself.

LaVine played shooting guard at UCLA, but said he is most comfortable playing point guard. He said several teams have asked for video of him running the point for Seattle Bothell High School.

"I played point guard my whole life," said LaVine, the son of former NFL and USFL football player Paul LaVine. "I feel comfortable with the ball in my hands. I'm still working at it just like everyone is at the next level."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ucla-s-zac ... 42299.html

Also, a few other places:

When he is drafted on Thursday and starts his NBA career, it will be as a 6-6 point guard. LaVine played out of position at UCLA as a freshman, which was his first experience as a shooting guard and wing player. But when draft workouts started, LaVine competed with point guards.

"I try to take a little of their game and put it into mine," LaVine said of Westbrook and Holiday. "I look at a lot of their film. Russell Westbrook and me have a lot of similarities and at the same time we don't. He's really aggressive going to the hoop, I feel I'm more of a finesse player but I still get there."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ach-lavine

NBA.com listed him as a pg prospect, although like LaVine in his pre-draft media interview and nbadraft.net, noted he can play either position and has learned to play offball:

http://www.nba.com/draft/2014/prospects/zach_lavine
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/zach-lavine
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Zac ... mbJfHr_4EG

UCLA has a tradition of pg's playing offball there (Westbrook, Holiday), and going on to become NBA point guards, so when combined with being a point guard in high school, and his comments about this.


Heck, at the draft combine he slotted in to be grouped with the point guards -- which agents and players pick -- and Chad Ford actually thought he looked good there:

Of the players who did show, a handful really stood out. The drills aren't really designed to necessarily make one player look good or bad, but a few players made an impression.

UCLA's Zach LaVine was the big winner Thursday. Not only did he look the part of a big NBA point guard (he measured 6-foot-5.75 with a 6-8.25 wingspan) but he showed off some terrific athleticism and shooting ability. With most of the rest of the potential lottery picks sitting out, LaVine was the one guy who really looked like he had star potential.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft201 ... -nba-draft

Surely this is not new info to you?

[Foshan]

Could a team with Cap space get involved... say Philly, who takes on a lot of Min's salary (Bennett/Barea/Bud?) for an incentive, that gives MIN the ability to sign Bledsoe straight up. Then if PHX matches Bledsoe's deal, PHI/MIN come up with a reason to nix the trade? (Trade someone with lingering injury issues, ala Tyson Chandler's toe issue with OKC)

[Takingbaconback]

LaVine was pitched as a point guard,

By who?

LaVine himself.

LaVine played shooting guard at UCLA, but said he is most comfortable playing point guard. He said several teams have asked for video of him running the point for Seattle Bothell High School.

"I played point guard my whole life," said LaVine, the son of former NFL and USFL football player Paul LaVine. "I feel comfortable with the ball in my hands. I'm still working at it just like everyone is at the next level."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ucla-s-zac ... 42299.html

Also, a few other places:

When he is drafted on Thursday and starts his NBA career, it will be as a 6-6 point guard. LaVine played out of position at UCLA as a freshman, which was his first experience as a shooting guard and wing player. But when draft workouts started, LaVine competed with point guards.

"I try to take a little of their game and put it into mine," LaVine said of Westbrook and Holiday. "I look at a lot of their film. Russell Westbrook and me have a lot of similarities and at the same time we don't. He's really aggressive going to the hoop, I feel I'm more of a finesse player but I still get there."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ach-lavine

NBA.com listed him as a pg prospect, although like LaVine in his pre-draft media interview and nbadraft.net, noted he can play either position and has learned to play offball:

http://www.nba.com/draft/2014/prospects/zach_lavine
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/zach-lavine
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Zac ... mbJfHr_4EG

UCLA has a tradition of pg's playing offball there (Westbrook, Holiday), and going on to become NBA point guards, so when combined with being a point guard in high school, and his comments about this.


Heck, at the draft combine he slotted in to be grouped with the point guards -- which agents and players pick -- and Chad Ford actually thought he looked good there:

Of the players who did show, a handful really stood out. The drills aren't really designed to necessarily make one player look good or bad, but a few players made an impression.

UCLA's Zach LaVine was the big winner Thursday. Not only did he look the part of a big NBA point guard (he measured 6-foot-5.75 with a 6-8.25 wingspan) but he showed off some terrific athleticism and shooting ability. With most of the rest of the potential lottery picks sitting out, LaVine was the one guy who really looked like he had star potential.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft201 ... -nba-draft

Surely this is not new info to you?

He could play PG but he would be best utilized as SG. Silky smooth shooting touch and has good enough vision to be a PG but I think he would be better off focusing on scoring.

[jayjaysee]

Not a follower of either team, but just throwing this idea out there. Who says no?

Eric Bledsoe, Gerald Green, Alex Len
for
Ricky Rubio, Kevin Martin, Nik Pekovic

Picks can be thrown whichever way deemed fit.

Suns GM probably stay silent waiting for Wolves GM to mention first rounders or Wiggins.... because that offer is not even worth consideration.

Bledsoe impacts the game so much more than Rubio... If Rubio was atleast Jason Kidd like in terms of being a 3pt threath and an elite team captain, then it'll be worth it.

Pekovic is a beast, but not the beast Suns want... they want a shot blocker who can also finish above the rim.... Dieng is a lot closer to what Suns want.

People can call this picking..or just ignore it like they do most stats about Rubio..

But since you went to that detail..

Rubio - first three seasons - 0.6-3made-pg 1.8-3attemppg 323% from three
Kidd - first three seasons - 1.2-3made-pg 3.8-3attemppg 323% from three

So yeah he took more - but is that really a good thing at that percentage?

I agree the Suns would rather a defensive center, but I don't agree that they wouldn't happily settle with Pekovic. But I think one of Len/Plumlee would have to be going out in that idea and then either the Wolves or a third team would have to pay for the Suns young center at a premium (to make it worth it)

- I say premium because there's no need for the Suns to trade either for the win-now upgrade of Pekovic. The upgrade does what? Takes them from fighting for the 9th seed to being the 8th seed? Maybe? Not a big enough jump to sell Plumlee/Len cheap.

I think Martin has very little value to the Suns with Green/Dragic (not looking deeper at the Suns prospects).. Brewer has less value with Tucker... So I do think if it was based around the Suns wings - a third team would be necessary. But Brewer/Martin should have value to a decent amount of teams so something around that would work.

[AQuintus]

Snip

So, not Flip Saunders, the only guy whose opinion actually matters, then?

[HartfordWhalers]

By who?

LaVine himself.
Lots of stuff

He could play PG but he would be best utilized as SG. Silky smooth shooting touch and has good enough vision to be a PG but I think he would be better off focusing on scoring.

Oh, I agree he should play a swing spot for now. But I'm shocked anyone could be a fan of the team that drafted him and missed that he had been a pg, and was repeatedly pitched as such.

[HartfordWhalers]

Snip

So, not Flip Saunders, the only guy whose opinion actually matters, then?

So, when you asked who, you were indeed aware by lots of people, including LaVine? Kinda stupid to question the guy who pointed out correctly he was pitched as it then.

[AQuintus]

So, when you asked who, you were indeed aware by lots of people, including LaVine? Kinda stupid to question the guy who pointed out correctly he was pitched as it then.

Does it matter?

Plenty of guys have pitched themselves as playing at a position that they don't actually play at.

The reality is that LaVine is a shooting guard.

Edit:

Also, I know about and wasn't questioning that he's been called a PG. I've heard the Russell Westbrook comparisons.

The whole point of questioning who was saying these things is that Flip Saunders isn't one of those people.

[AQuintus]

Rubio - first three seasons - 0.6-3made-pg 1.8-3attemppg 32.3% from three
Kidd - first three seasons - 1.2-3made-pg 3.8-3attemppg 32.3% from three

More examples (all first three seasons):

Chauncey Billips - 1.44-3made-pg 4.35-3attemppg 33.1% from three
John Stockton - 0.04-3made-pg 0.26-3attemppg 16.9% from three
Derrick Rose - 0.66-3made-pg 2.15-3attemppg 30.9% from three
Chris Paul - .86-3made-pg 2.56-3attemppg 33.7% from three
Russell Westbrook - 0.37-3made-pg 1.36-3attemppg 27.4% from three

The conclusion that I come to from these numbers is that despite the constant harping on Rubio's three point shooting, the real main issue people seem to have with him is that A) he doesn't shoot enough to have high volume PPG numbers, and B) he isn't good at finishing at the rim.

The rest of these guys don't (and didn't) get anywhere near as much flack for their shooting despite similar percentages in large part because they could finish at the rim and they did shoot a lot.

[SideSwipe]

As suspected this is being reported in PHX as Minny trying to dump bad contracts in PHX. I honestly think that if a team made Bledsoe a max offer, they would match- even if it is an overpay. Beyond that Minny's offer of Max is really Existing less-usable overpaid contracts being traded for new overpaid contract that is usable. If Minny could get that done, that would be great for Minny. Only problem is that it won't get done like that. If Bled wants Minny and Minny wants bled, then real value will need to come back. Otherwise Minny will not get Bledsoe.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for PHX to do this deal without value coming back. Even Bledsoe on the QO has value to PHX.

Incidentally, even this offer is bad news for PHX. Even if MIN can't offer a max deal next year, Bledsoe will now believe somebody else will give him the max. If PHX was hoping to get him for less than the max, I don't think Bledsoe will agree, and they will be looking at the QO.

EDIT: it's worse than that. What must Bledsoe be thinking about PHX now? They refused to offer him a max deal he felt he deserved. However, if some other team gives him what they wouldn't, the Suns still think Bledsoe on a max deal is worth an All Star or potential All Star? He's got to think they are complete crooks.

I honestly think PHX will pay Max if they have to, I just don't think they want to. In the minny case, they don't have to. Minny has to include bad contracts to make it worth it to them to give Bledsoe his max. If Minny ups their offer, I think there may be enough pieces on Minny's roster to get a deal done direct or as a 3-way. Minny has done a good job of stacking youth and prospects. If Minny is trying to dump Barea, Martin and Brewer on PHX eithout any youth or picks, it will not be enough.

[slicedbread2]

I think most likely the Suns will keep him due to the fact that not matching for E-Bled could be a tough sell to the fans where you had an amazing year for a team expected to be a bottom feeding squad. Sarver ain't generous with the pocketbook, but even he knows that it wouldn't be the wisest move to let him go. Plus him+Dragic+IT would be a nice guard rotation with Green around.

In order for the Suns to even consider this proposal, you'd have to make it a 3 way deal or a possible 4 way. Here'd be my 3 way with NOLA:

NOLA: Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger, Kevin Martin
Minnesota: Eric Bledsoe
Phoenix: J.J. Barea, Eric Gordon, Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III, first rounder protection removed, 2 seconds(MIN 2015 and 2018)

I don't think this would move the needle at all for Phoenix, but if Gordo ends up having a career year due to the Suns' amazing medical staff, he will definitely opt out and this would open up cap space for the Suns to make some moves. Probably would not be wise at this juncture.

NOLA would definitely love to move on from EG and find more role/complimentary players. I think they'd become very deep and could make some noise.

For the fourth deal, if they are trying to move Pek, it's a limited market and not too many teams would have a piqued interest in him. OKC maybe, but the T-wolves aren't trading him to a division rival.

Yea I just can't see a S&T with Minnesota getting done.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

I wonder how legitimate it is that the wolves offered a max deal for Bledsoe. Seems like the rumor could have been leaked by the wolves to try and make Bledsoe's camp take drastic measures vs Suns/help get a cheap price on Rubio's extension or by Bledsoe's camp to gain leverage vs Suns. I'm sure Wolves have inquired about Bledsoe but I wonder if they really would pay that much money for him + give up reasonably good assets.

Only if Kahn was still around.

[shrink]

It's an odd question indeed.

MIN's "bad contracts" (i don't think this is a fair representation) are at worst, slightly overpaid.

But if PHX believes Bledsoe is worth 4 years, $48 mil (and I think that was a fair offer too), it's hard to say that if you add $15 mil to it to get to the max, that Bledsoe doesn't also become at least "slightly overpaid."

Unfortunately, since he has talent and optimistic fans ignore injuries and expected production, they will demand a return that puts a great deal of value on him - and that pressure is something any front office would feel.

[shrink]

I think most likely the Suns will keep him due to the fact that not matching for E-Bled could be a tough sell to the fans where you had an amazing year for a team expected to be a bottom feeding squad. Sarver ain't generous with the pocketbook, but even he knows that it wouldn't be the wisest move to let him go. Plus him+Dragic+IT would be a nice guard rotation with Green around.

In order for the Suns to even consider this proposal, you'd have to make it a 3 way deal or a possible 4 way. Here'd be my 3 way with NOLA:

NOLA: Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger, Kevin Martin
Minnesota: Eric Bledsoe
Phoenix: J.J. Barea, Eric Gordon, Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III, first rounder protection removed, 2 seconds(MIN 2015 and 2018)

I don't think this would move the needle at all for Phoenix, but if Gordo ends up having a career year due to the Suns' amazing medical staff, he will definitely opt out and this would open up cap space for the Suns to make some moves. Probably would not be wise at this juncture.

NOLA would definitely love to move on from EG and find more role/complimentary players. I think they'd become very deep and could make some noise.

I was about to say the same thing. Eric Gordon, like Bledsoe on a max deal, is a risky but potentially very talented player that could get the Suns in the playoffs even if they lose Bledsoe next year. Gordon liked PHX, and PHX liked Gordon enough to offer him the max until NOLA matched. Bledsoe is worth more, so MIN would have to compensate by including their first (i don't think PHX needs the extra salary players).

MIN may be willing to slightly overpay Bledsoe rather than slightly overpay three of their current players to ease roster cluster, though The extra years on Bledsoe would be worrisome. Would they be willing to throw in their 1st without protections?

NOP is the question here. I agree that three MIN players would fill their roster nicely, alleviate risk, and probably put them close to making the playoffs. but would they prefer Bledsoe? perhaps not if he was on a max deal, and they needed to come up with additional value matching MIN's first. They have already traded their own first.

I think I would do the deal you mentioned as:

NOP GETS: Martin, Budinger, Barea (exp)
PHX GETS: Gordon, MIN 1st (unprotected)
MIN GETS: Bledsoe

[GopherIt!]

Not confident that EBs knee will hold up.

I'd rather the Wolves stay the course & semi-tank their way to a top five pick next year.