DAL/DET/WAS/IND/CHI - Point Guard Super Swap

HornetJail · Post #1 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:29 pm

Dallas trades Raymond Felton, Gal Mekel, Bernard James, Ricky Ledo for Brandon Jennings
Detroit trades Brandon Jennings, future 1st (lotto prot until 2016 otherwise 2nds) for Andre Miller, Mike Dunleavy, Ricky Ledo
Washington trades Andre Miller, future 2nd for Raymond Felton, future DET pick
Indiana trades George Hill for Bernard James, Gal Mekel, CHI 2nd, WAS 2nd
Chicago trades Kirk Hinrich, Mike Dunleavy, future 2nd for George Hill

Dallas does this because I've always been intrigued to see what Jennings could do in a lesser role where it's not necessary for him to always have the ball in his hands. Jennings would be a Crawford-esque sixth man for Dallas playing alongside veterans, and a tough coach that will keep him straight. I think this is the one scenario that truly makes sense for Jennings.

For Detroit, Jennings simply isn't the answer at point guard. For the young bigs Drummond and Monroe, and for Smith, Detroit needs a veteran point guard who will create shots for his teammates and not chuck up bad ones himself. They give up a 1st in the process, but also get back Dunleavy, a veteran floor spacer. Could this team make the playoffs? Yes Miller is ancient, but Augustin isn't a bad backup either.

Washington picks up an extra pick to take on the extra year of Felton's 2016 expiring contract. I think Felton could have a career revival behind Wall. He's a backup caliber PG at this point, and he is capable of playing on or off the ball if needed.

Indiana dumps the extra years of Hill's contract and sets the stage for a full tilt rebuild around George. The Pacers move well away from the tax and they receive an $8M TPE that could be used to absorb salary for more assets.

Chicago upgrades the backup PG position. Given the uncertainty that hangs over Derrick Rose due to his knees, Chicago should always have a solid backup PG for him. Hill definitely seems like the guy they would want. His spreads the floor for the bigs and competes on defense, not to mention he can play alongside Rose.

Post #2 » by **pacers33granger** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:07 pm

George Hill is overpaid, but I wouldn't do this since we really have no use for savings this year and it wouldn't make a difference next year.

Post #3 » by **dVs33** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Seems pretty bad for Chicago.

Even after jennings' disappointing season, I can't see detroit trading away a 1st to dump his salary.

Post #4 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:12 pm

Dallas is not adding salary next year so we can have Brandon Jennings pick up DNP-CD's. No way Rick plays him in front of Nelson or Harris and he's certainly not a 2.

Post #5 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:52 pm

If Detroit is taking back Felton, they shouldn't and wouldn't be sending a future first out with Jennings. Jennings has value as a sixth man. Felton has none.

HornetJail · Post #6 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:If Detroit is taking back Felton, they shouldn't and wouldn't be sending a future first out with Jennings. Jennings has value as a sixth man. Felton has none.

Detroit's getting Andre Miller and Mike Dunleavy. It's Washington that moving down from Miller to Felton, and they snatch up a pick in the process.

Post #7 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:46 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If Detroit is taking back Felton, they shouldn't and wouldn't be sending a future first out with Jennings. Jennings has value as a sixth man. Felton has none.

Detroit's getting Andre Miller and Mike Dunleavy. It's Washington that moving down from Miller to Felton, and they snatch up a pick in the process.

Detroit needs to stop trading picks in trades like this. Dre is well past his sell by date and Dunleavy is a journeyman wing. They had an opportunity to draft a good point guard this year but they traded their pick. This team just isn't close enough to being good to keep trading away their picks.

HornetJail · Post #8 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:50 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
BizGilwalker wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If Detroit is taking back Felton, they shouldn't and wouldn't be sending a future first out with Jennings. Jennings has value as a sixth man. Felton has none.

Detroit's getting Andre Miller and Mike Dunleavy. It's Washington that moving down from Miller to Felton, and they snatch up a pick in the process.

Detroit needs to stop trading picks in trades like this. Dre is well past his sell by date and Dunleavy is a journeyman wing. They had an opportunity to draft a good point guard this year but they traded their pick. This team just isn't close enough to being good to keep trading away their picks.

I don't disagree, but the Van Gundy hire makes me think they want in on the playoffs. The difference between the pick they trade here and the one they traded to Charlotte (which ended up as Vonleh) to dump Ben Gordon, is that the protection I proposed here doesn't go away. If Detroit still sucks in two years, then all they give up is 2nd rounders. Worst case scenario, they give up the 15th or 16th pick in a substandard draft, but at that point, they're already a playoff team and all they've really lost is someone who may or may not contribute as a role player.

Laimbeer · Post #9 » by **Laimbeer** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:06 pm

Detroit cuts out everyone but Dallas and trades Brandon Jennings for Raymond Felton, Gal Mekel, Bernard James, Ricky Ledo. Then the waiver wire gets a workout.

Post #10 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:12 pm

Eh, so Indy runs with CJ Watson starting at PG and playing 35 minutes a night? Hill gets a lot of hate, but I'm decently interested in seeing him run without having to defer to Lance (to keep Lance interested and locked in mentally).

HornetJail · Post #11 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:08 am

Laimbeer wrote:Detroit cuts out everyone but Dallas and trades Brandon Jennings for Raymond Felton, Gal Mekel, Bernard James, Ricky Ledo. Then the waiver wire gets a workout.

That was my original plan actually. But I didn't think Detroit would want take two of the ugly Augustin/Felton Wars. Even when those guys were at their best here in Charlotte, that PG rotation wasn't always pretty.

Captain_Obvious · Post #12 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:39 am

Just coming from Dallas, I think our FO would do this. They actually were after Jennings after he first was available. But maybe Monta has a thing to say about that.

Post #13 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:25 pm

Captain_Obvious wrote:Just coming from Dallas, I think our FO would do this. They actually were after Jennings after he first was available. But maybe Monta has a thing to say about that.

I think they had some mild interest, but certainly not at that contract level. Dallas does a great job of kicking the tires on lots of players, but sticking to their price point. If the guy comes down to that point:Monta, Nelson, Devin, Aminu, Blair, etc then sure they take them on and see if they can rejuvenate a career.

But in this new era of operating with cap space the Mavs are never going to take on a contract like that for a guy who doesn't move the needle. 5 years ago, sure Dallas would send whatever expiring they had and take on his money. But those days are long gone.

Captain_Obvious · Post #14 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:30 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:Just coming from Dallas, I think our FO would do this. They actually were after Jennings after he first was available. But maybe Monta has a thing to say about that.

I think they had some mild interest, but certainly not at that contract level. Dallas does a great job of kicking the tires on lots of players, but sticking to their price point. If the guy comes down to that point:Monta, Nelson, Devin, Aminu, Blair, etc then sure they take them on and see if they can rejuvenate a career.

But in this new era of operating with cap space the Mavs are never going to take on a contract like that for a guy who doesn't move the needle. 5 years ago, sure Dallas would send whatever expiring they had and take on his money. But those days are long gone.

They were very quick to burn money on Calderon. Day 1 of free agency just one year ago. Just saying.

I would not do this trade. I would also not sign Calderon to such a contract. And draft a point guard in lottery to be 3rd string.

Post #15 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Calderon is also a much better player than Brandon Jennings. Not sure why his name comes up here. They targeted him for a specific reason and he came in and gave the team exactly what was expected and on a very fair $$ contract.

I understand most Mavs fans don't like the guy, but the guy is one of the 10 best offensive PG's in basketball and has been for a long time. He and Brandon Jennings aren't remotely the same thing.

And they have never drafted a PG in the lottery to be 3rd string. Devin and Kidd were the last 2 PG lotto picks and Kidd started immediately and Devin started the first game of his career and was a starter or primary back-up his entire Mavs career. Now if you mean Larkin, well he wasn't a lotto pick and I don't believe the plan was for him to be 3rd string, but he got hurt and never really got a fair chance to compete for a job.

Post #16 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:30 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:
I understand most Mavs fans don't like the guy, but the guy is one of the 10 best offensive PG's in basketball and has been for a long time. He and Brandon Jennings aren't remotely the same thing.

Even without ranking him, I'd happily take Calderon and his 3/$22m remaining over Jennings and his 2/$16m 8 days a week. One guy does everything he can on one end of the floor to help you win, and at least tries hard, though he's limited, on the other end. The other guys just actively loses games for you, and doesn't make anyone else on the roster better.

Post #17 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:31 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:Detroit cuts out everyone but Dallas and trades Brandon Jennings for Raymond Felton, Gal Mekel, Bernard James, Ricky Ledo. Then the waiver wire gets a workout.

That was my original plan actually. But I didn't think Detroit would want take two of the ugly Augustin/Felton Wars. Even when those guys were at their best here in Charlotte, that PG rotation wasn't always pretty.

Eh, can't imagine the Felton/Augustin wars are going to be any, if at all, worse than the Jennings/Augustin wars.

HornetJail · Post #18 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:24 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
BizGilwalker wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:Detroit cuts out everyone but Dallas and trades Brandon Jennings for Raymond Felton, Gal Mekel, Bernard James, Ricky Ledo. Then the waiver wire gets a workout.

That was my original plan actually. But I didn't think Detroit would want take two of the ugly Augustin/Felton Wars. Even when those guys were at their best here in Charlotte, that PG rotation wasn't always pretty.

Eh, can't imagine the Felton/Augustin wars are going to be any, if at all, worse than the Jennings/Augustin wars.

Well, the Felton/Augustin war sucked five years ago, when they were both better than they are now.

Captain_Obvious · Post #19 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:00 am

Chuck Texas wrote:Calderon is also a much better player than Brandon Jennings. Not sure why his name comes up here. They targeted him for a specific reason and he came in and gave the team exactly what was expected and on a very fair $$ contract.

I understand most Mavs fans don't like the guy, but the guy is one of the 10 best offensive PG's in basketball and has been for a long time. He and Brandon Jennings aren't remotely the same thing.

And they have never drafted a PG in the lottery to be 3rd string. Devin and Kidd were the last 2 PG lotto picks and Kidd started immediately and Devin started the first game of his career and was a starter or primary back-up his entire Mavs career. Now if you mean Larkin, well he wasn't a lotto pick and I don't believe the plan was for him to be 3rd string, but he got hurt and never really got a fair chance to compete for a job.

Why did I bring up Calderon? Isn't it obvious?

a) They liked Calderon before as they flirted trading for him during our champions season. Didn't happen, thank god.
b) You said the FO only signs guys who "move the needle". I don't know if Jennings is much worse than Calderon. I know he was and still is in a much worse situation than Calderon who could play next to veterans and a good coach. And still got exposed as at best a 6th man. Calderon does not move the needle. Period.
c) They targeted Calderon because they wanted a potent PG after Kidd and the disaster that was Collison. Lets be clear here: There was no other PG available. And they grossly overpaid.

I see so many parallels to Jennings. At least he is young and could actually improve.

Larkin may not have been lottery. But we were in it and decided to trade down 2-3 spots to grap him. Thats close enough for me.
So:
NBA draft 2013: Thursday, June 27 013
They find out Devin Harris is injured: Fri Jul 12, 2013 (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1263751&p=36549548)
Larkin Injury: Jul 12, 2013 (http://watch.nba.com/nba/video/channels ... injury.nba)

They drafted him and signed Calderon/Harris. Thats great FO stuff right there.