Could Denver upgrade their wing position with the NY 16 1st?

[youngthegiant]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I think it's too early to tell what that pick is going to be, and thus be able to gauge its value. After next summer that pick could be very valuable or in the 20s, that's a better time to move it. Not a lot of certainty right now.

[giberish]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

First, to clarify, Denver has the better of their own and NYK's 1st round picks. If they trade that to some other team X - team X doesn't get the right to swap picks with NYK, they get the better or Denver's and NYK's 1sts (I've seen confusion when it's worded as a 'right to swap').

Second - Gallo is very good, and Afflalo is seen as good around the league. The # of clear improvements at SG and SF is relatively small and those players are tough to get.

[cl2117]

I could be way off with this (and I'm not sure if I even like it as a Celtics fan), but just for kicks:

Boston: McGee, Arthur, NYK 2016 first

Denver: Green, Thornton, multiple seconds (Cleveland and Miami 2016's?)

I don't think either Green or Thornton are improvements over Gallo or Afflalo, but they would provide some really strong depth. Green can be an insurance policy on Gallo getting injured again and plays both SF and the stretch 4 position (plus I think he is athletic enough to play some 2 if you want to get really creative). Thornton can provide the scoring at the 2 position you requested, but not the defensive punch you asked for. Plus you can cut bait with McGee if you're a Nuggets fan who is tired of him and get at least one expiring if not two since Green has the player option next year that I think he exercises. And the seconds lessen the blow slightly. I can understand if it doesn't move the needle enough to be bothered with though.

For Boston they get a chance to try and work with McGee and get a 2016 first that has potential. It might not be worthwhile to handcuff Ainge by taking on McGee's 11m salary for next season if he thinks he can still build around Rondo with free agency and trades, but the pick has to be appealing to a guy who seems to be stockpiling them like a doomsday prepper does with canned goods.

[jayjaysee]

Is this just a sly attempt at hearing how good Afflalo is? Cause that's what I'm seeing it as.


A late lotto pick can't get a better player than Afflalo.

Afflalo+a late lotto pick wouldn't interest anyone with a better player than Afflalo. No one wants to divide their good player into two lesser pieces without good reason - IE that guy demanding out.. And no 2guards are doing that ATM.

Denver's "real success" is all on Gallo's shoulders/legs..


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[Warspite]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

This doesnt make sense to me because the wing is Denvers strength. I dont why you want to upgrade the best part of your team and ignore all the holes in it.

We are in currently the worst era for wing scoring in the history of the league. A good 2 way SF might have as much value as a good 2 way bigman.

[Scoot McGroot]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

First, to clarify, Denver has the better of their own and NYK's 1st round picks. If they trade that to some other team X - team X doesn't get the right to swap picks with NYK, they get the better or Denver's and NYK's 1sts (I've seen confusion when it's worded as a 'right to swap').

Second - Gallo is very good, and Afflalo is seen as good around the league. The # of clear improvements at SG and SF is relatively small and those players are tough to get.

Pretty sure the Denver part is "right to swap" which can be traded. The whole NY to Toronto would then shuffle out as Toronto getting the lesser of NY and whatever team holds the pick swap's selection.

[giberish]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

First, to clarify, Denver has the better of their own and NYK's 1st round picks. If they trade that to some other team X - team X doesn't get the right to swap picks with NYK, they get the better or Denver's and NYK's 1sts (I've seen confusion when it's worded as a 'right to swap').

Second - Gallo is very good, and Afflalo is seen as good around the league. The # of clear improvements at SG and SF is relatively small and those players are tough to get.

Pretty sure the Denver part is "right to swap" which can be traded. The whole NY to Toronto would then shuffle out as Toronto getting the lesser of NY and whatever team holds the pick swap's selection.

No, it's not.

Denver has the better pick between their own and NYK's. They can trade that pick, but it's still the better pick between Denver and NYK. The 'right to swap' isn't really a thing, and can't be traded. It's a poorly worded description of Denver having the better of the two picks. People really shouldn't talk/write about a 'right to swap', because that's not what's really done and just causes confusion.

Toronto has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK. Even if Denver trades their half, Toronto still has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK, not the lessor pick between NYK and the team Denver trades with. Toronto doesn't have to worry about Denver trading their half to an elite team - Toronto only has to worry about Denver or NYK being good in 2016.

[HartfordWhalers]

Denver has the rights to swap picks with the New York Knicks in 2016. Could they package that Pick and Afflalo to upgrade their wing position. Afflalo is good but Denver could use a really good defender and scorer at the 2 position. Just for conversation, it doesn't even necessarily need to be a wing player, I just want to know what kind of value this package would carry.

First, to clarify, Denver has the better of their own and NYK's 1st round picks. If they trade that to some other team X - team X doesn't get the right to swap picks with NYK, they get the better or Denver's and NYK's 1sts (I've seen confusion when it's worded as a 'right to swap').

Second - Gallo is very good, and Afflalo is seen as good around the league. The # of clear improvements at SG and SF is relatively small and those players are tough to get.

Pretty sure the Denver part is "right to swap" which can be traded. The whole NY to Toronto would then shuffle out as Toronto getting the lesser of NY and whatever team holds the pick swap's selection.

Yeah, as giberish said, it is explicitly tied to a team, in this case Denver.

[Scoot McGroot]

First, to clarify, Denver has the better of their own and NYK's 1st round picks. If they trade that to some other team X - team X doesn't get the right to swap picks with NYK, they get the better or Denver's and NYK's 1sts (I've seen confusion when it's worded as a 'right to swap').

Second - Gallo is very good, and Afflalo is seen as good around the league. The # of clear improvements at SG and SF is relatively small and those players are tough to get.

Pretty sure the Denver part is "right to swap" which can be traded. The whole NY to Toronto would then shuffle out as Toronto getting the lesser of NY and whatever team holds the pick swap's selection.

No, it's not.

Denver has the better pick between their own and NYK's. They can trade that pick, but it's still the better pick between Denver and NYK. The 'right to swap' isn't really a thing, and can't be traded. It's a poorly worded description of Denver having the better of the two picks. People really shouldn't talk/write about a 'right to swap', because that's not what's really done and just causes confusion.

Toronto has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK. Even if Denver trades their half, Toronto still has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK, not the lessor pick between NYK and the team Denver trades with. Toronto doesn't have to worry about Denver trading their half to an elite team - Toronto only has to worry about Denver or NYK being good in 2016.

Sorrrrrrrrry. I just assume it was dealt as it's written up. Didn't realize they were the first to tie it up specifically to save the swap from being further dealt. Good for them.

[skywalker33]

I could be way off with this (and I'm not sure if I even like it as a Celtics fan), but just for kicks:

Boston: McGee, Arthur, NYK 2016 first

Denver: Green, Thornton, multiple seconds (Cleveland and Miami 2016's?)

I don't think either Green or Thornton are improvements over Gallo or Afflalo, but they would provide some really strong depth. Green can be an insurance policy on Gallo getting injured again and plays both SF and the stretch 4 position (plus I think he is athletic enough to play some 2 if you want to get really creative). Thornton can provide the scoring at the 2 position you requested, but not the defensive punch you asked for. Plus you can cut bait with McGee if you're a Nuggets fan who is tired of him and get at least one expiring if not two since Green has the player option next year that I think he exercises. And the seconds lessen the blow slightly. I can understand if it doesn't move the needle enough to be bothered with though.

For Boston they get a chance to try and work with McGee and get a 2016 first that has potential. It might not be worthwhile to handcuff Ainge by taking on McGee's 11m salary for next season if he thinks he can still build around Rondo with free agency and trades, but the pick has to be appealing to a guy who seems to be stockpiling them like a doomsday prepper does with canned goods.

How does this help Denver ?? We pay to rid ourselves of McGee's salary plus his rim-protecting ability (but get to add $8M in return for this year btw, so a $4M savings )...we get to give our swap of NYK pick, we get Thornton and Green plus two worthless seconds ?? Change out the 2nds for one of their 1st and it may look palpitate to Denver. CLE & MIA';s 2nds which s/b somewhere 50+...get real.

[giberish]

Pretty sure the Denver part is "right to swap" which can be traded. The whole NY to Toronto would then shuffle out as Toronto getting the lesser of NY and whatever team holds the pick swap's selection.

No, it's not.

Denver has the better pick between their own and NYK's. They can trade that pick, but it's still the better pick between Denver and NYK. The 'right to swap' isn't really a thing, and can't be traded. It's a poorly worded description of Denver having the better of the two picks. People really shouldn't talk/write about a 'right to swap', because that's not what's really done and just causes confusion.

Toronto has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK. Even if Denver trades their half, Toronto still has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK, not the lessor pick between NYK and the team Denver trades with. Toronto doesn't have to worry about Denver trading their half to an elite team - Toronto only has to worry about Denver or NYK being good in 2016.

Sorrrrrrrrry. I just assume it was dealt as it's written up. Didn't realize they were the first to tie it up specifically to save the swap from being further dealt. Good for them.

It's not new at all. There has never been a 'right to swap picks' traded. It's always been that one team gets the better pick between specific teams, while someone else gets the lessor pick.

It gets reported as a pick swap for connivence, even though it's not really accurate (it's only true as long as there aren't any further trades). It's a minor annoyance of mine, which is why I clarified it early in the thread.

[cl2117]

I could be way off with this (and I'm not sure if I even like it as a Celtics fan), but just for kicks:

Boston: McGee, Arthur, NYK 2016 first

Denver: Green, Thornton, multiple seconds (Cleveland and Miami 2016's?)

I don't think either Green or Thornton are improvements over Gallo or Afflalo, but they would provide some really strong depth. Green can be an insurance policy on Gallo getting injured again and plays both SF and the stretch 4 position (plus I think he is athletic enough to play some 2 if you want to get really creative). Thornton can provide the scoring at the 2 position you requested, but not the defensive punch you asked for. Plus you can cut bait with McGee if you're a Nuggets fan who is tired of him and get at least one expiring if not two since Green has the player option next year that I think he exercises. And the seconds lessen the blow slightly. I can understand if it doesn't move the needle enough to be bothered with though.

For Boston they get a chance to try and work with McGee and get a 2016 first that has potential. It might not be worthwhile to handcuff Ainge by taking on McGee's 11m salary for next season if he thinks he can still build around Rondo with free agency and trades, but the pick has to be appealing to a guy who seems to be stockpiling them like a doomsday prepper does with canned goods.

How does this help Denver ?? We pay to rid ourselves of McGee's salary plus his rim-protecting ability (but get to add $8M in return for this year btw, so a $4M savings )...we get to give our swap of NYK pick, we get Thornton and Green plus two worthless seconds ?? Change out the 2nds for one of their 1st and it may look palpitate to Denver. CLE & MIA';s 2nds which s/b somewhere 50+...get real.

The OP asked if there was a way to upgrade their wing position with the 2016 first, which as someone else pointed out is not really a possibility because they already have two great starters in Gallo and Afflalo and any team with a better wing player is likely not willing to swap them for the NYK 2016 first. So my logic is that if they can't get someone better they could at least add really good depth at the wing. Green is a great insurance policy on Gallo, is athletic enough to play 3/4 and is an excellent 6th man option since he is already a solid starter. Thornton is an expiring wing who can actually produce offensively and if he gets hot he can win you a couple ball games off the bench.

Denver actually only adds $3m in salary for this year ($14.7 going out $17.7 coming in). Boston could eat more if there was a player the Nuggets wanted to move as well. I think Green opts out next year so it'd be all expirings heading to Denver, which would get you out of McGee's deal a year early (and I acknowledged that'd only be appealing if you were one of the Nuggets' fans who has given up on McGee).

I understand if it's not appealing, you'd have to want to move Javale and be confident in Mozgov/Nurkic/Hickson manning the 5. I can see how it seems like an overpay and why you'd want a first instead of seconds to make it more palatable, but at that point you're just swapping firsts and exchanging McGee for productive expiring deals (assuming Green opts out, which I am) and I don't think many teams would be willing to handicap their 2015 offseason by taking on McGee's $11m deal just to do that especially since the value of that pick could fluctuate significantly depending on how things shake out over the next two years.

[Scoot McGroot]

No, it's not.

Denver has the better pick between their own and NYK's. They can trade that pick, but it's still the better pick between Denver and NYK. The 'right to swap' isn't really a thing, and can't be traded. It's a poorly worded description of Denver having the better of the two picks. People really shouldn't talk/write about a 'right to swap', because that's not what's really done and just causes confusion.

Toronto has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK. Even if Denver trades their half, Toronto still has the lessor pick between Denver and NYK, not the lessor pick between NYK and the team Denver trades with. Toronto doesn't have to worry about Denver trading their half to an elite team - Toronto only has to worry about Denver or NYK being good in 2016.

Sorrrrrrrrry. I just assume it was dealt as it's written up. Didn't realize they were the first to tie it up specifically to save the swap from being further dealt. Good for them.

It's not new at all. There has never been a 'right to swap picks' traded. It's always been that one team gets the better pick between specific teams, while someone else gets the lessor pick.

It gets reported as a pick swap for connivence, even though it's not really accurate (it's only true as long as there aren't any further trades). It's a minor annoyance of mine, which is why I clarified it early in the thread.

[jbk1234]

Let's start with the obvious question: Who do you consider an upgrade at the 2 over AA?