Rondo/Powell for Wright/Nelson/Crowder/1st/2nd- official?

[LloydFree]

As a 76ers fan who loves Rondo, but hates the Celtics, I thought I'd be happy when they traded him. But the Celtics ruined it, because I don't like the Mavericks either.

[HartfordWhalers]

Kevin Pelton of ESPN's take on the trade (Boston won):

It's easy to look at the Celtics' haul for a four-time All-Star and think, "That's it?" But other teams have scouts, and have seen the same issues with Rondo that could limit his value to the Mavericks. There's also the question of how much teams are willing to surrender for a player who will become a free agent at season's end.

...

The most important is Wright, and a case could be made that he's actually the most valuable player in this deal...

Do not post entire contents of paid content such as ESPN insider. Small snippets please.

In terms of the Pelton grades, he had:

Boston: B+
Dallas B-

(I would lean that closer to both won then Boston only, but interesting to see Boston with the better grade)

[CBA]

I think it's more likely than not that Rondo doesn't make the Mavs significantly better, but I suppose the small chance that he could return to his peak play was enough to risk losing Wright's contributions knowing their current squad wasn't a real contender.

[Knosh]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/545761598338772992[/tweet]

Doesn't change things that much, but makes it better for Boston.

[HartfordWhalers]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/545761598338772992[/tweet]

This makes so much more sense.

[old rem]

Huge for Dallas. Makes them dangerous as hell in the playoffs.

Probably a short term + for Dallas but it likely does not get them far enough. Boston gets quality depth.. but not enough. It's a deal that can work either way. I expected Boston wanted a bit more "impact" but They do get some value back.

[DusterBuster]

Yeah, Rondo doesn't seem like the same player he used to be, so this doesn't seem as crazy is it might on initial viewing. Including the fact that he a FA this summer, his value wasn't going to be all that high.

Ainge should have cashed out on Rondo earlier.

[jayjaysee]

Can't Milwaukee just agree to Felton+two 2nds for Zaza.... Or Indy with Ian?... Or Jason Thompson..Sac could save three million next year and get two 2nds :/ I'd really like any of those three players on the Mavs in the next two weeks. Christmas list status.

Obviously love it for Dallas. Think anyone saying it's not that big of a win for Dallas is thinking too much about Rondo's free agency pending and not the on court boost. Cuban can afford to pay Rondo whatever need be to give the team a new face post-Dirk..

Parsons , Harris-or-Felton and two firsts for Melo? Yeah.... Tyson and Rondo are really good friends with Melo right?! dreaming big.

[The59Sound]

And now I'm sad. Full on 100% sad.

Dude your post on the Celtics board had me a little sad....

I feel your pain. The first two years after our championship were hard hard days to be a Mavs fan.

It is funny, I've found myself over the last few years starting to be less and less a fan and more of a dispassionate observer. Zach Lowe wrote an article last year about how is fandom died. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he wrote. But Rondo was my guy. I loved him at UK. I was beyond excited when the Celtics traded for him during the Draft. I worried he would be part of the KG trade. I knew he would be fine as our PG for that team. He always carried himself from day one as a warrior. He won KG over. He went from the little brother to a complete badass. Those guys were like a little family. Then Perkins got dealt. Allen left. Pierce and KG got traded. And now Rondo. And I'm reminded that we root for laundry. Laundry. Colors, letters and numbers. The people inside the uniform only matter as long as they wear that uniform. We can still like them after they go, but we really don't care anymore. The next guy in that jersey matters. Not the guy who wore it before him. Laundry.

I love the game. I love everything about basketball. It is the only game to me that melds teamwork and individual performance in a perfect way. I find myself caring far more about how the teams are built and the end results, far more than rooting for my team. I can't believe I'm here, but I get it. I think this was the final blow for my fandom. Maybe Smart emerges and sucks me back in. But for now, the Celtics will always be my team. My first love. I just don't know how much of a fan I will be anymore.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I had to get this out there.

I think I just cried more than the Tesseract scene in "Interstellar." Sorry you're so down, sir. I do know how you feel; I went through the same thing when Stockton retired. But all these years later, I'm finally becoming "attached" to a new crop of guys. I think your fandom is in hyper-sleep -- not dead.

[HornetJail]

Kevin Pelton of ESPN's take on the trade (Boston won):

It's easy to look at the Celtics' haul for a four-time All-Star and think, "That's it?" But other teams have scouts, and have seen the same issues with Rondo that could limit his value to the Mavericks. There's also the question of how much teams are willing to surrender for a player who will become a free agent at season's end.

...

The most important is Wright, and a case could be made that he's actually the most valuable player in this deal...

And is also a free agent at season's end

[RightToCensor]

Hallelujah!

So glad we didn't get Rondo. I an hoping though we get Dragic or trade for better depth on all cylinders.

[campybatman]

Basically this excerpt sums it up for me. Ainge sat on his hands knowing he'd intentions of trading Rondo. Unfortunately, the ideal trade never happened for Ainge. So he'd waited and waited and waited some more. No, you don't wait until the last year to trade him is my point. What is it that the media says about Belichick? He'll trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late.

But after that knee surgery, Rondo has been slow to return to form, as is usually the case for players that tear their knee. In waiting until his impending free agency this summer to move him, Ainge has maybe failed to get a big return for his former All-Star point guard. With Rondo being in trade rumors for years, it's hard not to think about whether or not they sold a couple years too late on such a talented player.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... other-pick

[Ascrilas]

I am a Celtic and Mavericks fan, my two favorite players are Dirk Nowitzki and Rajon Rondo, so I think, I can be kinda objective on this one. I voted neither (with slight advantage to Boston), but think, it might work out for both teams.

For Boston:
First of all, Brendan Wright is not a minor asset. He is a valuable role player, excelling in various advanced stats (PER 26.1, WS/48 .247, RPM 2.42, ORtg 149). Also, the 12 million-TPE is an underrated part of the deal that will surely be used to get either a useful player or, more likely, a pick.

Now regarding Rondo, I think Boston got fair value. He just isn't very good anymore. He's averaging 8 points on 40/25/33. He's rocking an average PER of 15.2, his WS/48 is poor (.056). He hasn't led an above-average offense once in his career. The C's have been better with him off the court for the last three years on both ends. In 2012-13, the Celtics were 18-20 when he played. 23-20 when he didn't. In 2013-14, the Celtics were 6-24 when he played, 19-33 when hedidn't. No stat suggests he is able to make a team better, at least when he is deployed in an focal role.
Injury plays a role, but people tend to focus on his 2012 playoff run (which was great) and forget that he had already been in decline when he was injured. Right now, Paul, Curry, Westbrook, Lowry, Conley, Irving, Wall, Dragic, Parker, Rubio (in no order) are clearly better than him, with guys like Lawson, Knight, Holiday, Williams, Teague, Walker, Bledsoe, Beverley (again, in no order) being arguable.

Considering this, I think the Celtics got solid value. Not great, but absolutely ok, a late-first rounder plus Wright seems fair. The trade exception is very valuable and an aspect many people forget: It gives Smart more playing time.
I don't think trading Rondo will worsen their pick a lot, though. They still might be in contention for a playoff spot, given how abysmal the EC is right now.

I am not sure whether Ainge should've pulled the trigger earlier, but trading him while being injured or still being rusty would've obviously been rather dumb. He gambled on Love, and maybe it would've even worked (without Cleveland's lottery luck), then he gambled on Rondo, expecting him to play better. Well, maybe this was his mistake, because given his current play, he'd never get more than what he got today. (No matter what some Celtic fans think.) Looking at the whole extended time period where Rondo had been on the trading block, Ainge maybe could've got more, but he is surely not the idiot some guys try to paint him.


For Dallas:
Giving up Wright is a severe loss, not only because he is good, but also because Greg Smith is now the back-up center. If Jermaine O'Neal signs in Dallas, losing Wright will be much less hurtful.
I've always like Crowder, too, although he never became what many hoped for.

Concering Rondo, like many other guys, I don't like the fit.
The Mavericks' problem is defense, and while he is better than Nelson or Barea, he is still pretty bad. In addition to his gambling for steals, Rondo has developed some other bad habits. His effort and motivation has been dwindling for years, he sometimes loses his man or forgets to rotate over. Post-ACL, he has struggled to contain penetration. Several stats paint him as an atrocious defender (see here, here and here). Well-known experts like Voulgaris and Lowe also don't see Rondo as a good defender.
On the other hand side, I don't see how he can improve the Mavs' offense. His assist numbers are overrated and padded due to Rondo's ball-dominance (ball-hogging?) which won't fit well in Dallas's Spurs-esque offense (not to mention his turnovers). Fit with Ellis is also a problem, obviously.
Even worse, he kills spacing. While guys like Kirk Goldsberry have tried to paint him as a capable shooter, he is not. From 10-16 ft, he hasn't been shooting over 43% since 2009-10. From 16-23 ft, he had one outlier (50,8% in 2012-13), apart from that, he hasn't been over 42% since 2008-09. And note that these shots are mostly wide open. He actually had been improving pre-ACL, but right now, he's terrible again. Nobody respects his shot, his opponents always go under in the P'n'R which also explains why he is so bad as a pick-and-roll ballhandler. That he can't shoot threes at all, well, we already know that.
Also, one short note: Rondo won't solve Dallas's rebounding problems either. This year, his rebounding totals are skewe (also: see here) because (apart from his regular padding) frequently, his teammates would give him the rebound so he can initiate the offense in their high-pace system. (Also evidenced by his OREB which is stil the same.)

Could it still work? Well, I'm skeptical, but Rick Carlisle is a genius. Rondo is also obviously a huge talent upgrade over Nelson (although I don't think it can negate the talent downgrade from Wright to Smith) and still a player with unique traits, so maybe Carlisle will find a way. If he, Dirk and the new situation can motivate Rondo to play defense, it'd help a lot. Also, it'll help that Rondo doesn't have to be 'the guy'. I always thought he was some super role-player who should've stayed a role-player. Now he is the 5th best player of their team which is more fitting considering what he is right now.
Not excited at giving him near-max money though. But it's Cubes' money.

[cucad8]

the 13million trade exception is key from c's pov

Can someone give me a quick explanation of how the TPE was generated. I know that Boston had TPEs to acquire Nelson and Wright, but how does the full ROndo salary get generated exactly?

[nykballa2k4]

Celtics fans talking about the reality VS what real fans think

Guess what. Realgm fans were absolutely right about Rondo's value. Nobody would give up a ton for an expiring Rondo coming off a big surgery playing like crap.

Still, it's a robbery for Dallas. They give up nothing here. a late 1st, a 2nd round pick and some really meh assets.

I gotta say though, the fact that this trade happened really indicates how far Rondo has fallen and where his perceived value is. Dallas is a great fit because he is the closest thing out there to JKidd (when healthy) BUT if Rondo now was as good as Kidd at "end of NJ" days Boston would have gotten more.

There is one of two ways this goes for Dallas:
1) bad -- Rondo plays like a 6'4'' version of Ray Felton
2) adequate -- Rondo player alright, improves steadily as the season reaches its climax, then leaves Dallas has to pay him big money.

I really believe that the only reason Boston traded Rondo was because they realized he was done. He was a very athletic point guard who played good defense and distributed the ball well. However, his athleticism declined making him overall much less valuable.

I only say that because Wright is a "nice" center. He can stop-gap as a starter, but he is not a franchise center. He also is expiring, thus is about to earn 10M/year.
1 pick will be almost worthless.

That "package" could have been beaten by other teams in the sweepstakes

[HartfordWhalers]

the 13million trade exception is key from c's pov

Can someone give me a quick explanation of how the TPE was generated. I know that Boston had TPEs to acquire Nelson and Wright, but how does the full ROndo salary get generated exactly?

Boston gets to lump the trade as:

Wright and Nelson into existing TPE's
Rondo for nothing.

Since its lumped Rondo for nothing, they get a TPE the full size of Rondo's salary as the difference in salary between Rondo and nothing is Rondo's salary.

[Trader_Joe]

Love it for Dallas....it's OK for Boston.
Boston turns it over to Smart and gets an athletic shot blocker along with major salary relief and a decent pick. Also, I think Crowder could be a contributor. Good, but I am surprised they didn't so slightly better.

Dallas sees if Rondo is the final piece to this current roster but needs to add back some depth up front.

Also..I think Rondo's decline is severely over blown by some. Still an elite rebounder for a PG, a great passer and one of the better defenders. He's going to be big for them come March and beyond.

[bondom34]

Just for fun, per SB Nation:
29 Rondo rumors that didn't happen:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/ ... ry-celtics

[jbk1234]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/545761598338772992[/tweet]

This makes so much more sense.

It does. But I'm surprised that the league let those picks go with protections through 2020. There was talk about removing, or not letting teams trade protected picks.

[SMTBSI]

the 13million trade exception is key from c's pov

Can someone give me a quick explanation of how the TPE was generated. I know that Boston had TPEs to acquire Nelson and Wright, but how does the full ROndo salary get generated exactly?

Boston gets to lump the trade as:

Wright and Nelson into existing TPE's
Rondo for nothing.

Since its lumped Rondo for nothing, they get a TPE the full size of Rondo's salary as the difference in salary between Rondo and nothing is Rondo's salary.

The fine print:


From Dallas' perspective, this is largely a simultaneous trade, where Wright, Nelson, and Crowder are aggregated to acquire Rondo (and Powell is acquired via the minimum salary exception).

From Boston's perspective, it's a slew of individual, mostly non-simultaneous trades.

1.) Wright is acquired via the Bogans TPE, "completing" the earlier trade that generated that TPE for us.
2.) Nelson is acquired via the Anthony TPE, "completing" the earlier trade that generated that TPE for us.
3.) Crowder is acquired via the minimum salary exception.
4.) Rondo is sent to Dallas for "nothing", generating a 12.9mil TPE that we have one year to use.
5.) Powell is sent to Dallas for "nothing", generating a 0.507336mil TPE that we have one year to use.