Let the Melo sweepstakes begin

[Birdie]

Ballboy your anti Knick agenda here is so clear. If you were the GM you would buy out an all-star player and have dead money on the books for the next 4 years in order to hand a lotto pick to Denver next year. Isiah, is that you.

Secondly, Carmelo won 54 games with a 3rd tier star in Tyson Chandler and a starting lineup that consisted of Raymond Felton, Ronnie Brewer and a 40 year old Jason Kidd.

Building is a process. Before Miami was a destination for Shaq and Lebron Riley turned them into a contestant playoff team with Zo and Hardaway and developed a young star in Wade. The Knicks will have a top 5 pick this year to develop a young star and with Melo and Phil can start changing the environment about the organization.

Lastly on Kevin Love - you claim how efficient he is yet he shoots 42% on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving then you complain that Carmelo is inefficient yet he's always shooting 45%+ on teams where defenses can throw everything at him. How many playoff games has Kevin Love won? How many 50 win seasons does Kevin Love have? Look, Carmelo's playoff resume is far from impressive but Kevin Love did not experience close to the success in MINN that Carmelo did in DEN and even his first few years in NY. I'm sure you have an excuse, but these are facts. Kevin Love so far has proven to be nothing more than a good stats, bad team guy.

Again, your anti Knick agenda is so clear here. Your new the forums. No need to waste any more time with you. Enjoy school.

Anti-Knicks agenda? I could care less about your Knicks but recognize that if NYK, BOS, LAL franchises are "competitive", it makes the league EVEN more exciting to watch on a night-to-night basis. Clearly, you got your panties all up in a bunch to resort to name calling to make you feel superior in some sort of Internet way. Congrats old timer, you're really doin it.

As for my commenting in buying-out Melo, 1) said in jest and 2) the thread is setup for hypotheticals. Apparently, you're so offended by this thought because of your undying man love for Melo, it's as if I walked into your house and took a dump on your carpet. Calm down old timer, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. Keep it moving.

Umm, even if this hypothetical "buy-out" was feasible, I find it laughable you think NYK are not gonna be in the lotto next year with or without Melo. Like I said, I applaud your optimism but Denver is swapping to get your lotto pick next year, truth hurts.

LBJ took a team of Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Drew Gooden, Boobie Gibson to the 2007 NBA Finals. Your point about 1 54 win season? What happened the following season with pretty much most of the principals returning? That's what we would call an over-achieve.

That's one thing we can agree on, (re)building is a process. But I have no faith in the NYK executing that correctly. They've been "rebuilding" since 2001. Funny you'd bring up MIA as your example though. 1st, MIA traded for those important pieces that turned them into a consistently competitive team (ie. Zo, who CHA didn't want to pay, Tim Hardaway, Mashburn, Shaq) 2nd, they tanked hard the year before they landed D Wade in '03. D Wade led his team to the playoffs in his 1st year. 3rd, LBJ, Bosh, D Wade friendship brought that team together in 2010. I don't see no Melo "friends" dying to join him. He's just as toxic as wanting to play with than Kobe. There's no talent in the 2015 draft that is even close to doing what D Wade did his rookie year. In the last 7 NBA drafts, here are the Knicks 1st rd picks:

2008 #6 Danilo Gallinari
2009 #8 Jordan Hill
2010 None, would've been #9
2011 #17 Iman Shumpert
2012 None, would've been #16
2013 #24 Tim Hardaway Jr.
2014 None, would've been #12

That is just some poop drafting skills but I'm sure you'll tell me Tim Hardaway is the 2nd coming of KD or something.

Oh, this bad team, good stats, no playoffs argument that is always the go to debate involving Kevin Love. I guess Demarcus Cousin is a useless sack of potatoes too because he's going on 5 straight years of no playoff appearances and his stats are empty. Yea, ok buddy. It's comments like yours that make me wonder if you actually watch NBA games. As I said before, you keep harking back to your prisoner of the moment analysis as you keep stating Love's 42% FG THIS season. In his 3rd year, 20.2PPG 15.2REB, 47%FG and 41%3PT and raised his PPG in 4th and 6th seasons while still rebounding at a +10 rate. But NOooooooo, according to you, that doesn't matter, he's suck now. GTFO. Again, it seems you're ride or die with Melo, enjoy missing the playoffs or 1st rd knockouts cuz that's about the ceiling you're gonna get from him on your team in the next 5 years. The only fact is, I'd rather build a team around Love than Melo today.

Yes, I'm new to the forums but only as a poster because it's the best place I've found over the years to discuss NBA with other like minded people. It's not an anti Knick agenda when the live product on the floor validates the points I make but seeing as the tone you've taken with me, it's not worth my time to engage with you anymore, so, good day to you sir. I hope you have a cheerful day in fantasyland and may Phil Jackson tweet you sweet msgs of having "it" when you're (Phil) the one responsible for putting those people on the floor to play. Sorry Phil, less tweeting more GM'ing. I don't want it to happen but I'm rooting for Phil to turn it around in NY because he's the GOAT. It'd be a shame if PJ is the reincarnation of Isiah 2.0 and sets the Knicks back 5-10 years again. That's all I'm sayin.

[Prospect Dong]

Anyone else think the Wizards could be a team that targets him? I know I've seen a number of their fans on here want to hold-out for a shot at Durant, but if their management doesn't think that's feasible I think Anthony makes a lot of sense for them. Maybe something in the summer around Nene's deal (which will be a large expiring next year) and Beal?

I think a Wizards discussion would make more sense in the summer of 2016. This would happening assuming the Knicks don't land a 2nd star in free agency and take the flexibility/Dallas approach and hold onto all their future draft picks. This also would be under the assumption that Durant does not sign with Washington.

It makes very little sense for the Knicks to deal Carmelo this summer.

I think most of the surplus value on Melo's current contract comes next season, which is when he's youngest and cheapest. I can understand wanting to hold onto him for one more season to see what a team with a high draft pick and a few FAs can do, but it's a big ask for them to go from bottom of the league to anything other than a fringe playoff team. If you want to maximise Melo's value he needs to play next season for a team he can turn into a contender.

[Knosh]

This idea that Melo contract is ridiculous is laughable. What do you think contracts are going to look like when the cap going to 90 million with the projected TV deals.

30% of the Cap for 7-9 year players. Can anyone do the math? Oh that right max deal will be starting close the 30 million per.

It might look a little bloated now, but the cap will make his deal a bargain come the new TV agreement.

Did ther math. Melo will probably make more than the 7-9 year max in 16/17.

[R-DAWG]

Anyone else think the Wizards could be a team that targets him? I know I've seen a number of their fans on here want to hold-out for a shot at Durant, but if their management doesn't think that's feasible I think Anthony makes a lot of sense for them. Maybe something in the summer around Nene's deal (which will be a large expiring next year) and Beal?

I think a Wizards discussion would make more sense in the summer of 2016. This would happening assuming the Knicks don't land a 2nd star in free agency and take the flexibility/Dallas approach and hold onto all their future draft picks. This also would be under the assumption that Durant does not sign with Washington.

It makes very little sense for the Knicks to deal Carmelo this summer.

I think most of the surplus value on Melo's current contract comes next season, which is when he's youngest and cheapest. I can understand wanting to hold onto him for one more season to see what a team with a high draft pick and a few FAs can do, but it's a big ask for them to go from bottom of the league to anything other than a fringe playoff team. If you want to maximise Melo's value he needs to play next season for a team he can turn into a contender.

But what does NY get for moving Melo off surgury?? You want to give up superstar value fine, but no one is doing that. If we move him after next season it's to committ to building through the draft, something we can't do next year since we don't own our pick. At this point ride it out with Melo and a high draft pick. It's much easier to trade everything you have and start building through the draft than to get a player of Melo's abilities - contract, knee injury, playoff record included, he's still one of the best players in the league.

[nykballa2k4]

This idea that Melo contract is ridiculous is laughable. What do you think contracts are going to look like when the cap going to 90 million with the projected TV deals.

30% of the Cap for 7-9 year players. Can anyone do the math? Oh that right max deal will be starting close the 30 million per.

It might look a little bloated now, but the cap will make his deal a bargain come the new TV agreement.

Did ther math. Melo will probably make more than the 7-9 year max in 16/17.

yup because Melo math is based on hopes and dreams. In reality Melo will be making, at his greatest number, 27M/season (player option, 2018/19). 30% of a doubled cap would be... in the realm of 40M. So even if Melo isn't a max player, by pay standards, he will look like a role player.

[Prospect Dong]

I think a Wizards discussion would make more sense in the summer of 2016. This would happening assuming the Knicks don't land a 2nd star in free agency and take the flexibility/Dallas approach and hold onto all their future draft picks. This also would be under the assumption that Durant does not sign with Washington.

It makes very little sense for the Knicks to deal Carmelo this summer.

I think most of the surplus value on Melo's current contract comes next season, which is when he's youngest and cheapest. I can understand wanting to hold onto him for one more season to see what a team with a high draft pick and a few FAs can do, but it's a big ask for them to go from bottom of the league to anything other than a fringe playoff team. If you want to maximise Melo's value he needs to play next season for a team he can turn into a contender.

But what does NY get for moving Melo off surgury?? You want to give up superstar value fine, but no one is doing that. If we move him after next season it's to committ to building through the draft, something we can't do next year since we don't own our pick. At this point ride it out with Melo and a high draft pick. It's much easier to trade everything you have and start building through the draft than to get a player of Melo's abilities - contract, knee injury, playoff record included, he's still one of the best players in the league.

Surgery or no you can expect to get a lot more for Melo by moving him this offseason than next. The only thing that changes if you wait a year is that he's a year older and a year more expensive.

Trading him before a season when you don't have your pick stings, sure, and may make it impossible for management, but that pick is a sunk cost at this point. There's no rational difference between not getting the 15th pick and not getting the 5th, so I don't see that there's much benefit in a face-saving "competitive" season where you get swept by the cavs in the first round if your longer term plan is to blow it up.

All that changes if you sign Marc Gasol or Kevin Love, of course. But if it's a choice between Melo plus Tobias Harris and Asik or moving him for maximum value...

[Knosh]

This idea that Melo contract is ridiculous is laughable. What do you think contracts are going to look like when the cap going to 90 million with the projected TV deals.

30% of the Cap for 7-9 year players. Can anyone do the math? Oh that right max deal will be starting close the 30 million per.

It might look a little bloated now, but the cap will make his deal a bargain come the new TV agreement.

Did ther math. Melo will probably make more than the 7-9 year max in 16/17.

yup because Melo math is based on hopes and dreams. In reality Melo will be making, at his greatest number, 27M/season (player option, 2018/19). 30% of a doubled cap would be... in the realm of 40M. So even if Melo isn't a max player, by pay standards, he will look like a role player.

Cap will not be doubled in 16/17. We actuallay know the numbers for the new tv deal and we know how the cap is calculated under the current CBA. Should come out to $87 mil give or take.

7-9 year max actually isn't 30% of the cap. Look at the cap for the last few years: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13
Then look at the 7-9 year max for the last few years: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16
And then do the math based on actual numbers. You should find that for this season that number is 28.05%.

0.2805 * 87 = 24.4035. And now compare that to the 24.559 Melo is making in 16/17.

Maybe the next time you are going to tell someone that his math is based on hopes and dreams, you should actually do the math yourself before.

[R-DAWG]

I think most of the surplus value on Melo's current contract comes next season, which is when he's youngest and cheapest. I can understand wanting to hold onto him for one more season to see what a team with a high draft pick and a few FAs can do, but it's a big ask for them to go from bottom of the league to anything other than a fringe playoff team. If you want to maximise Melo's value he needs to play next season for a team he can turn into a contender.

But what does NY get for moving Melo off surgury?? You want to give up superstar value fine, but no one is doing that. If we move him after next season it's to committ to building through the draft, something we can't do next year since we don't own our pick. At this point ride it out with Melo and a high draft pick. It's much easier to trade everything you have and start building through the draft than to get a player of Melo's abilities - contract, knee injury, playoff record included, he's still one of the best players in the league.

Surgery or no you can expect to get a lot more for Melo by moving him this offseason than next. The only thing that changes if you wait a year is that he's a year older and a year more expensive.

Trading him before a season when you don't have your pick stings, sure, and may make it impossible for management, but that pick is a sunk cost at this point. There's no rational difference between not getting the 15th pick and not getting the 5th, so I don't see that there's much benefit in a face-saving "competitive" season where you get swept by the cavs in the first round if your longer term plan is to blow it up.

All that changes if you sign Marc Gasol or Kevin Love, of course. But if it's a choice between Melo plus Tobias Harris and Asik or moving him for maximum value...

what's the offer from the Wizards? If we can only get something that speeds up the rebuilding process enough to make it worth sitting through the pain to give up another lottery pick for a player not on the team anymore having an all-star season for. So the offer really needs to start with Bradley Beal, which I doubt Washington would do. Otto Porter and late 1st Rd pick level offers will be available in the following summer. They would need Durant to sign a long term contract to give up Beal. Similar to the Dragic situation, the only team that will pay the asking the price for Melo is a team that will not have the cap space to sign Durant.

Oh, and that's another factor to consider. There will be multiple teams in the run for Durant and there's a marketing aspect to it as well. Teams that miss out on Durant will feel pressure to make a move. Plus you would only be paying Carmelo for 3 years vs 4 years someone could get on the open market. A 4 year max player is a $100 million asset in the new CBA. Carmelo would cost a year and about $25 million less. So while I don't think a Breadly Beal will be available for Camrelo next summer, we could get a mediocre prospect, multiple mid to late 1st rd pick offers.

[blind prophet]

In Sacramento I'd have to take a look at draft positioning first, but the starting bid would be Rudy Gay, Thompson & Landry, you'd eat Jarl Thompandry for sure.

But I'd really have to look around first at other options.

[rein08]

Would Denver be interested in getting back their former franchise player?
Melo and Calderon for Lawson, Gallo, and Chandler

[bgrep14]

I'd give up Tristan Thompson (S+T), Haywood (10 million non guaranteed), Mike miller, and a first round pick or two