Minny/CHA KMart+Bud for Zeller+LStephenson

[Xman]

Minny sends KMart and Budinger to CHA for Zeller and Stephenson.

Logic: CHA wants a shooter and KMart fits the bill. Budinger is pretty much a throw in - but a throw in that can shoot off the bench.

The question is what is KMart and his $7 mil for the next two years worth? His numbers are good - 20 points a game shooting over 43% and over 43% on threes. Budinger is over 40% also.

Minny would rather have Vonleh based on potential - and if CHA was willing then he would go instead. But, if CHA is not willing, then there is no reason to keep Zeller (Marvin and Vonleh could handle the position). Zeller, as a #4 pick in 2013 has value in seeing what happens with a change of scenery. Stephenson is a throw in contract - with a team option for the next year.

Minny would end up with these guys at the pf spot:
Zeller 4.2 mil with a team option for next two years: 1st pick in 2013
Bennett 5.8 mil with same : 4th pick in 2013
APayne 1.9 mil with same : 15th pick in 2014

The sad thing is that you probably end up with 2 guys that would make really good backups.

Minny is 2 deep almost across the board:
pg: Rubio, LaVine
sg: KMart,
sf: Wiggins, Shabazz
pf: Payne, Bennett
c: Pek, Dieng

The talent at pg, sf, and c is really solid and young with potential. SG is older but solid. PF has high picks - but no performers at this point.
Bringing in Zeller would give them another shot at a pf panning out. Hoping Minny gets Russell - he would fit well at sg and the others would create more duplicate talent at a position.

After this deal (and adding Russell):
pg: Rubio, LaVine
sg: Russell, LStephenson
sf: Wiggins, Shabazz
pf: Zeller, Payne, Bennett
c: Pek, Dieng

That would be a team with potential.
Could go heavy D - Rubio/LStephenson/Wiggins/payne?/Dieng; or heavy O - Lavine/Russell/Shabazz/Zeller?/Pek.
IF - and that is a big IF - Wiggins or Russell became a top 5 guy, then this team is in the hunt for rings.

[jbk1234]

I don't hate it but I think that the Hornets are probably too high on Zeller to do it and Minny would never take back Lance. They've got too many young players to invite Lance into the locker room. I definitely think the Hornets should make a run at K Mart though.

[Xman]

Minny could take back Marvin - and would prefer Vonleh over Zeller.

[jbk1234]

Minny could take back Marvin - and would prefer Vonleh over Zeller.

Obviously, but why would Charlotte give either of them up? I think you'd be better off asking for a pick.

[HornetJail]

Minny could take back Marvin - and would prefer Vonleh over Zeller.

you wouldn't get either one for Martin. At one point, I would've traded Zeller for Martin, but Zeller has been much better since that time

[Scoot McGroot]

Uh, i doubt you're netting either of Cody or Noah in a deal like this. Bud kills any value that Kmart has, and you'd be lucky to net Lance. You're certainly not netting lotto pick in addition.

[yosemiteben]

Zeller, as a #4 pick in 2013 has value in seeing what happens with a change of scenery.

He has value where he is now.

No way this deal happens.

[bondom34]

Yeah, Zeller has actually been good. On second thought should a voted him higher in the poll.

[Xman]

Though getting rid of Lance was good for CHA. Especially with Henderson and KMart.

Seems like CHA would be willing to part with either Vonleh or Zeller to get a 20+ scorer who hits 3s.
Stephenson or Marv seem to be the fililer for contracts. Minny has only 2 guys in addition to KMart it is willing to part with for little to no compensation - Budinger and his $5 mil expiring and probably Bennett.

Anyway, just seemed like a really good fit - and that CHA had a piece to spare that would interest Minny

[jbk1234]

Though getting rid of Lance was good for CHA. Especially with Henderson and KMart.

Seems like CHA would be willing to part with either Vonleh or Zeller to get a 20+ scorer who hits 3s.
Stephenson or Marv seem to be the fililer for contracts. Minny has only 2 guys in addition to KMart it is willing to part with for little to no compensation - Budinger and his $5 mil expiring and probably Bennett.

Anyway, just seemed like a really good fit - and that CHA had a piece to spare that would interest Minny

So nearly every poster, including posters who are fans of other teams tell you Charlotte wouldn't do it, and your response is yes they would?

You'd be better off trading K. Mart for Marvin and a pick (maybe even this year's first if the Hornets make the playoffs).

[MNRunLeft]

So nearly every poster, including posters who are fans of other teams tell you Charlotte wouldn't do it, and your response is yes they would?

You'd be better off trading K. Mart for Marvin and a pick (maybe even this year's first if the Hornets make the playoffs).

Doesn't seem like the Wolves are all that interested in moving Martin so a $7 mil expiring and a non lotto pick while fair value may not be enough incentive imo. That may change depending on where they land in the lotto.

[giberish]

Minny fans seem to be really overrating Martin. Over-30 guards decline, often quickly. The gap between solid rotation player (Martin now) and min salary quality isn't that big. I'd expect Martin to decline to min salary emergency depth in quality before the end of his deal.

[Scoot McGroot]

Minny fans seem to be really overrating Martin. Over-30 guards decline, often quickly. The gap between solid rotation player (Martin now) and min salary quality isn't that big. I'd expect Martin to decline to min salary emergency depth in quality before the end of his deal.

Nah, he's fine enough. He's got massive holes, mostly defensively, but he brings enough offensively to make himself a useful, but not massively valuable piece. Adding Budinger to him in a deal means that you're likely just netting an expiring deal in Lance, maybe a 2nd rounder in additional value.

[spearsy23]

Uh, i doubt you're netting either of Cody or Noah in a deal like this. Bud kills any value that Kmart has, and you'd be lucky to net Lance. You're certainly not netting lotto pick in addition.

Lance tanks his value as an expiring by being... Lance. I don't know that many teams would take him in a salary dump even.

[Scoot McGroot]

Uh, i doubt you're netting either of Cody or Noah in a deal like this. Bud kills any value that Kmart has, and you'd be lucky to net Lance. You're certainly not netting lotto pick in addition.

Lance tanks his value as an expiring by being... Lance. I don't know that many teams would take him in a salary dump even.

Kind of. But Bud kills any value that Martin has, and makes it so really all you can do is dump Martin's last year. I'm not saying Lance has value on his own. Merely that, no matter what, he's an expiring. Kind of same for Budinger.

[Vindicater]

I actully really like the idea of adding Lance to the Wolves. I don't think the Wolves would want to give up much for him though,

I suggest

Bennett and Budinger

for

Lance and PJ Hairston

Lance has a bigger contract so the Wolves are taking that in the assumption they can get him back on track. Bud and Bennett are expiring contracts so Charlotte are doing this for two reasons. To get out of Lances contract and to test Bennetts potential. Hairston I threw in because I could not seem to get contracts to match without him. Filler and Wolves eat it.

[BeesWax]

I actully really like the idea of adding Lance to the Wolves. I don't think the Wolves would want to give up much for him though,

I suggest

Bennett and Budinger

for

Lance and PJ Hairston

Lance has a bigger contract so the Wolves are taking that in the assumption they can get him back on track. Bud and Bennett are expiring contracts so Charlotte are doing this for two reasons. To get out of Lances contract and to test Bennetts potential. Hairston I threw in because I could not seem to get contracts to match without him. Filler and Wolves eat it.

No thanks. I do not really see the point here. I would rather see if Hairston and Lance can pull it together this offseason than gamble on Bennett. There really isn't any reason to make this trade in terms of benefit for the Hornets.

[giberish]

Minny fans seem to be really overrating Martin. Over-30 guards decline, often quickly. The gap between solid rotation player (Martin now) and min salary quality isn't that big. I'd expect Martin to decline to min salary emergency depth in quality before the end of his deal.

Nah, he's fine enough. He's got massive holes, mostly defensively, but he brings enough offensively to make himself a useful, but not massively valuable piece. Adding Budinger to him in a deal means that you're likely just netting an expiring deal in Lance, maybe a 2nd rounder in additional value.

My point is that he's useful now, but as an old (by NBA standards) player, he'll decline going forward.

[Scoot McGroot]

Minny fans seem to be really overrating Martin. Over-30 guards decline, often quickly. The gap between solid rotation player (Martin now) and min salary quality isn't that big. I'd expect Martin to decline to min salary emergency depth in quality before the end of his deal.

Nah, he's fine enough. He's got massive holes, mostly defensively, but he brings enough offensively to make himself a useful, but not massively valuable piece. Adding Budinger to him in a deal means that you're likely just netting an expiring deal in Lance, maybe a 2nd rounder in additional value.

My point is that he's useful now, but as an old (by NBA standards) player, he'll decline going forward.

I get it, but everybody will decline going forward. However, Martins game isn't predicated on athleticism, so it's likely his decline will be slower and gentler. He'll likely be similar to what he is now for the next two years.

[giberish]

Nah, he's fine enough. He's got massive holes, mostly defensively, but he brings enough offensively to make himself a useful, but not massively valuable piece. Adding Budinger to him in a deal means that you're likely just netting an expiring deal in Lance, maybe a 2nd rounder in additional value.

My point is that he's useful now, but as an old (by NBA standards) player, he'll decline going forward.

I get it, but everybody will decline going forward. However, Martins game isn't predicated on athleticism, so it's likely his decline will be slower and gentler. He'll likely be similar to what he is now for the next two years.

Younger players can plausibly expect to get better, even somewhat younger players can expect to stay about the same. And the 'he's not really athletic so he won't decline with age' claim is wildly overrated. Everybody gets old.