IND - SAC

[Beam Me Up Foxy]

I'm not sure if y'all noticed, but Paul George returned to play, and really has no "health concerns" at this point. So, there's that.

I honestly don't know his prognosis, but coming back and playing for a relatively brief stint doesn't really put all the concerns to rest.

It does specifically mean that one cannot get away trying to make offers predicated on the idea that "Paul George is hurt and will never come back". Clearly, he has made the first major steps in doing so. Clearly, Indy's also not going to accomodate others in dealing George at all, let alone taking less in return simply because the other team wants a discount for an injury that doesn't appear to be an issue going forward.

I agree. However, I think the offer is in line value wise for PG's pre-injury production. Now direction wise I don't really even know if thats a wise manuever for the Pacers, but value I think it's at least pretty close at worst.

[Kings2013]

I'm not sure if y'all noticed, but Paul George returned to play, and really has no "health concerns" at this point. So, there's that.

I honestly don't know his prognosis, but coming back and playing for a relatively brief stint doesn't really put all the concerns to rest.

It does specifically mean that one cannot get away trying to make offers predicated on the idea that "Paul George is hurt and will never come back". Clearly, he has made the first major steps in doing so. Clearly, Indy's also not going to accomodate others in dealing George at all, let alone taking less in return simply because the other team wants a discount for an injury that doesn't appear to be an issue going forward.

I agree Indy shouldn't take less than they deem sufficient for PG full strength, by the same token I don't believe others will give the value of him being full strength until we see it consistently. Making him IMO temporarily untradeable until we see him in action a little more

[bondom34]

I don't see any evidence that PG won't return full strength, which is a bigger issue to why Indy shouldn't and wouldn't be lowballed (and frankly just wouldn't trade him).

[winter_mute_13]

Yeah, trading PG is just not in the cards, so any theoretical hit in PG's value because of injury is just that, theoretical.

Not happening.

[Scoot McGroot]

I honestly don't know his prognosis, but coming back and playing for a relatively brief stint doesn't really put all the concerns to rest.

It does specifically mean that one cannot get away trying to make offers predicated on the idea that "Paul George is hurt and will never come back". Clearly, he has made the first major steps in doing so. Clearly, Indy's also not going to accomodate others in dealing George at all, let alone taking less in return simply because the other team wants a discount for an injury that doesn't appear to be an issue going forward.

I agree. However, I think the offer is in line value wise for PG's pre-injury production. Now direction wise I don't really even know if thats a wise manuever for the Pacers, but value I think it's at least pretty close at worst.

I would say it's low. That offer is pretty similar to the Kevin Love deal. A #1 pick, and assorted value that equals useful stuff. Theoretically, Bennett had some value at the time, and the Miami Heat #1 pick made up some ground. I do appreciate that the offer is made believing that it is a TON of value, and it is very good value in theory for a good player. I think PG13 was simply worth more than that if he were to have been on the open market.

I just think that pre-USA Basketball injury, PG13's value was higher than Kevin Love. Better production at both ends of the court, while also being locked up contractually long-term (4 more years after this one). That demands value in the top tier of trades ever made. Especially with Paul only being 24 years old right now.

[Laimbeer]

It does specifically mean that one cannot get away trying to make offers predicated on the idea that "Paul George is hurt and will never come back". Clearly, he has made the first major steps in doing so. Clearly, Indy's also not going to accomodate others in dealing George at all, let alone taking less in return simply because the other team wants a discount for an injury that doesn't appear to be an issue going forward.

I agree. However, I think the offer is in line value wise for PG's pre-injury production. Now direction wise I don't really even know if thats a wise manuever for the Pacers, but value I think it's at least pretty close at worst.

I would say it's low. That offer is pretty similar to the Kevin Love deal. A #1 pick, and assorted value that equals useful stuff. Theoretically, Bennett had some value at the time, and the Miami Heat #1 pick made up some ground. I do appreciate that the offer is made believing that it is a TON of value, and it is very good value in theory for a good player. I think PG13 was simply worth more than that if he were to have been on the open market.

I just think that pre-USA Basketball injury, PG13's value was higher than Kevin Love. Better production at both ends of the court, while also being locked up contractually long-term (4 more years after this one). That demands value in the top tier of trades ever made. Especially with Paul only being 24 years old right now.

For me it has more to do with contract situations. Love had a gun to Minny's head, so the top pick was considered good value. If Love had been signed long term and not chomping at the bit to leave, like George, Minny wouldn't have let him go for that.

[jbk1234]

People will say I'm crazy, but if the Kings have the opportunity to select Towns they need to do so. Put him next to Cousins and see if you have the best front court in the league. Then they can package Landry and Staukus together for cap relief and make a run at a guy like Middleton or Danny Green in FA. I like Paul George but the biggest decision the Kings have is whether to continue to build around Cousin or to move on.

[Boneman2]

The Middleton hype on here is outlandish. Saw another thread where the #6 or #7 was being offered and everyone seemed okay with it. People talk as if this guy is a max player. Glad the Pacers are far away from ever acquiring a wing this overhyped.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Middleton hype on here is outlandish. Saw another thread where the #6 or #7 was being offered and everyone seemed okay with it. People talk as if this guy is a max player. Glad the Pacers are far away from ever acquiring a wing this overhyped.

I wouldn't say he's overhyped. I think that's right in the right spot for him. Somewhere from 7-14 is probably fair-ish, though it all depends on contract, and whatnot. He's a VERY good shooter all over the court, really good FT shooter, and is a REALLY good defender. Really, he'd be PERFECT between George Hill and Paul George long term.

[Boneman2]

The Middleton hype on here is outlandish. Saw another thread where the #6 or #7 was being offered and everyone seemed okay with it. People talk as if this guy is a max player. Glad the Pacers are far away from ever acquiring a wing this overhyped.

I wouldn't say he's overhyped. I think that's right in the right spot for him. Somewhere from 7-14 is probably fair-ish, though it all depends on contract, and whatnot. He's a VERY good shooter all over the court, really good FT shooter, and is a REALLY good defender. Really, he'd be PERFECT between George Hill and Paul George long term.

I understand Scoot but a max player he is not. Whoever gives this guy that kind of money will regret it. I'm more than content with Miles at 4 per because of the current market volatility.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Middleton hype on here is outlandish. Saw another thread where the #6 or #7 was being offered and everyone seemed okay with it. People talk as if this guy is a max player. Glad the Pacers are far away from ever acquiring a wing this overhyped.

I wouldn't say he's overhyped. I think that's right in the right spot for him. Somewhere from 7-14 is probably fair-ish, though it all depends on contract, and whatnot. He's a VERY good shooter all over the court, really good FT shooter, and is a REALLY good defender. Really, he'd be PERFECT between George Hill and Paul George long term.

I understand Scoot but a max player he is not. Whoever gives this guy that kind of money will regret it. I'm more than content with Miles at 4 per because of the current market volatility.

Max player right now? Probably not. But the way he's improved year over year, and the fact that he's one of the premiere wing players on the market this year, and that Milwaukee would likely match anything short of the max likely means that his market may BE the max.

And I'd take Middleton at most any price over Miles. But theoretically, it would be Middleton in ADDITION to Miles. And that would be great.

[basketballwacko2]

Under the assumption that the Kings land the #1 or #2 pick

IND Gets:
#1/#2 pick
Ben McLemore

IND Gives:
Paul George

Why for IND?
The Pacers do this if they decide they want to rebuild. George is still young so he could be the main building piece going forward, but he is coming off a major injury. The #1/#2 pick gives them an opportunity to bring aboard their next franchise player to build around while also bringing aboard a potential 3 and D SG to build around. I'm assuming the Pacers would go Towns/Okafor with the pick and then Turner/Oubre with their own pick. After the draft, their young core to build around could look like this:

PG - ???
SG - McLemore
SF - Hill
PF - Turner
C - Towns

HA!!

Don't you even know who plays point guard for the Pacers? George Hill is his name. The Hill at SF is Soloman Hill. This is a lowball offer. If you are assuming that your pick is #1 over all which is quite unlikely the deal is closer but not enough for PG. Why not toss in a bad contract as well? Besides money doesn't work.

[basketballwacko2]

It's not lowball IMO. Given George's injury situation I personally would doubt if a majority of GMs would give up the 1. It's opinion

If Boogie had a serious injury that basically kept him out a calendar year and might not be the same player again I don't know what it would do for his value

I'm not sure if y'all noticed, but Paul George returned to play, and really has no "health concerns" at this point. So, there's that.

I honestly don't know his prognosis, but coming back and playing for a relatively brief stint doesn't really put all the concerns to rest.

Then don't trade for him. If he's unable to play the league insurance will only pay off to the pacers, lowballing to get him will mean you pay the $15-16 million per year for 4 yrs if he is not able to play. NYK learned that with Amare' when they signed him despite his knee issues.

[basketballwacko2]

I don't see any evidence that PG won't return full strength, which is a bigger issue to why Indy shouldn't and wouldn't be lowballed (and frankly just wouldn't trade him).

It's as if someone offered you a high pick and an average SG for Durant. I'm more concerned with KD's foot issue than PG's leg. That Jones fracture is a beeatch to heal, I have a friend that had one 2 years ago and she's still limping and having pain.

[bpcox05]

Under the assumption that the Kings land the #1 or #2 pick

IND Gets:
#1/#2 pick
Ben McLemore

IND Gives:
Paul George

Why for IND?
The Pacers do this if they decide they want to rebuild. George is still young so he could be the main building piece going forward, but he is coming off a major injury. The #1/#2 pick gives them an opportunity to bring aboard their next franchise player to build around while also bringing aboard a potential 3 and D SG to build around. I'm assuming the Pacers would go Towns/Okafor with the pick and then Turner/Oubre with their own pick. After the draft, their young core to build around could look like this:

PG - ???
SG - McLemore
SF - Hill
PF - Turner
C - Towns

HA!!

Don't you even know who plays point guard for the Pacers? George Hill is his name. The Hill at SF is Soloman Hill. This is a lowball offer. If you are assuming that your pick is #1 over all which is quite unlikely the deal is closer but not enough for PG. Why not toss in a bad contract as well? Besides money doesn't work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have come across.

First of all, you need to read what I said again, and if you still have the same line of thinking, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Of course I know who plays PG on the Pacers. If you read the sentence right before the Pacers roster, you can see how ridiculous you sound. I listed only players that would be part of the young core going forward. A 29 year old George Hill is not a core piece for a young rebuilding team. If you think otherwise, then I don't know what to say...

Next you said, "assuming that your pick is #1 overall..." What is there to assume? That is the deal. If the Kings get the 1st pick this would be the trade.

Lastly, yes the money does work. Kings have plenty of cap space this season and we can stretch Landry to give us even more. Not to mention trading the pick removes the big cap hold that pick would demand. So again, yes the salaries work.

[bondom34]

I don't see any evidence that PG won't return full strength, which is a bigger issue to why Indy shouldn't and wouldn't be lowballed (and frankly just wouldn't trade him).

It's as if someone offered you a high pick and an average SG for Durant. I'm more concerned with KD's foot issue than PG's leg. That Jones fracture is a beeatch to heal, I have a friend that had one 2 years ago and she's still limping and having pain.

Nah he's fine. I've read up a lot on it, he's set to be back to 100.

[basketballwacko2]

I don't see any evidence that PG won't return full strength, which is a bigger issue to why Indy shouldn't and wouldn't be lowballed (and frankly just wouldn't trade him).

It's as if someone offered you a high pick and an average SG for Durant. I'm more concerned with KD's foot issue than PG's leg. That Jones fracture is a beeatch to heal, I have a friend that had one 2 years ago and she's still limping and having pain.

Nah he's fine. I've read up a lot on it, he's set to be back to 100.

I hope so but you see what I mean? Some guy offering your 60 cents on the dollar for him.

[bondom34]

It's as if someone offered you a high pick and an average SG for Durant. I'm more concerned with KD's foot issue than PG's leg. That Jones fracture is a beeatch to heal, I have a friend that had one 2 years ago and she's still limping and having pain.

Nah he's fine. I've read up a lot on it, he's set to be back to 100.

I hope so but you see what I mean? Some guy offering your 60 cents on the dollar for him.

Thats what I was saying.

[basketballwacko2]

Under the assumption that the Kings land the #1 or #2 pick

IND Gets:
#1/#2 pick
Ben McLemore

IND Gives:
Paul George

Why for IND?
The Pacers do this if they decide they want to rebuild. George is still young so he could be the main building piece going forward, but he is coming off a major injury. The #1/#2 pick gives them an opportunity to bring aboard their next franchise player to build around while also bringing aboard a potential 3 and D SG to build around. I'm assuming the Pacers would go Towns/Okafor with the pick and then Turner/Oubre with their own pick. After the draft, their young core to build around could look like this:

PG - ???
SG - McLemore
SF - Hill
PF - Turner
C - Towns

HA!!

Don't you even know who plays point guard for the Pacers? George Hill is his name. The Hill at SF is Soloman Hill. This is a lowball offer. If you are assuming that your pick is #1 over all which is quite unlikely the deal is closer but not enough for PG. Why not toss in a bad contract as well? Besides money doesn't work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have come across.

First of all, you need to read what I said again, and if you still have the same line of thinking, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Of course I know who plays PG on the Pacers. If you read the sentence right before the Pacers roster, you can see how ridiculous you sound. I listed only players that would be part of the young core going forward. A 29 year old George Hill is not a core piece for a young rebuilding team. If you think otherwise, then I don't know what to say...

Next you said, "assuming that your pick is #1 overall..." What is there to assume? That is the deal. If the Kings get the 1st pick this would be the trade.

Lastly, yes the money does work. Kings have plenty of cap space this season and we can stretch Landry to give us even more. Not to mention trading the pick removes the big cap hold that pick would demand. So again, yes the salaries work.

If you want to see ridiculous just look at the OP! I stopped reading once I saw that silly offer and the premise that you get the #1 over all pick. Everyone knows the fix is in the Knicks are getting it and LA is getting the 2nd pick. McLemore is looking like an average SG and or a bust. If you subtract is salary and add in PG salary you have your entire cap tied up in 7 players. Oh I forgot you're gonna buy out Landry and stretch him, why not Thompson as well!

Better for the kings if they get the #1 pick is to take Towns and be happy, then try to move their failed draft picks elsewhere.

[bpcox05]

HA!!

Don't you even know who plays point guard for the Pacers? George Hill is his name. The Hill at SF is Soloman Hill. This is a lowball offer. If you are assuming that your pick is #1 over all which is quite unlikely the deal is closer but not enough for PG. Why not toss in a bad contract as well? Besides money doesn't work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have come across.

First of all, you need to read what I said again, and if you still have the same line of thinking, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Of course I know who plays PG on the Pacers. If you read the sentence right before the Pacers roster, you can see how ridiculous you sound. I listed only players that would be part of the young core going forward. A 29 year old George Hill is not a core piece for a young rebuilding team. If you think otherwise, then I don't know what to say...

Next you said, "assuming that your pick is #1 overall..." What is there to assume? That is the deal. If the Kings get the 1st pick this would be the trade.

Lastly, yes the money does work. Kings have plenty of cap space this season and we can stretch Landry to give us even more. Not to mention trading the pick removes the big cap hold that pick would demand. So again, yes the salaries work.

If you want to see ridiculous just look at the OP! I stopped reading once I saw that silly offer and the premise that you get the #1 over all pick. Everyone knows the fix is in the Knicks are getting it and LA is getting the 2nd pick. McLemore is looking like an average SG and or a bust. If you subtract is salary and add in PG salary you have your entire cap tied up in 7 players. Oh I forgot you're gonna buy out Landry and stretch him, why not Thompson as well!

Better for the kings if they get the #1 pick is to take Towns and be happy, then try to move their failed draft picks elsewhere.

Offering the 1st pick in the draft and a young SG with 3 and D potential for George is not a ridiculous offer. It might be on the short end, but to call it ridiculous is insane. I'm sure there have been plenty of trades that have tried acquiring without giving up potential franchise talents.

The fact that you think the lottery is fixed just goes to show how naive you are. They have many representatives in the room when the lottery goes down. If it was actually fixed, I'm sure there would be way more substantial reports that this is occurring, but it's human nature to assign blame to someone. For instance, when the Kings have never picked better than their current position in the draft, a naive fan might feel the need to blame the league for the Kings unluckiness when, in fact, it's just unluckiness.

So you lack reading comprehension and math skills? Collison, McCallum, George, Stauskas, Gay, Thompson, Landry, Moreland, & Cousins makes 9 not 7, but that's okay you were only 2 off. Almost had it!

Move our failed draft picks? Picks? As in multiple? I'm assuming you're talking about McLemore in this scenario, but the fact that you make it plural is confusing, and the fact that you're already ready to write off a player that has only played two seasons thus far just goes to show us your patience and general knowledge of player development.

McLemore was playing very well to end the season: .491 FG% / .354 3pt% / .750 FT% / 16.2 PPG / 3.6 RPG / 3.1 APG / 1.8 SPG / 0.2 BPG / 2.2 TOPG

Does that stat line look like a player who is busting? Not every player adjusts to the NBA immediately, some players take more time.

Look I understand why IND would not want to do the deal. I'm not arguing that anymore. Usually, fans know what's best for their team. This proposal was to gauge George's availability while dangling the #1 pick in front of them.