Derrick Rose Value

Post #1 » by **BullyKing** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:02 pm

Hypothetical but with reports of dysfunction between Rose and Jimmy Butler, let's say that the Bulls choose to build around Butler and agree to move Rose elsewhere. Dynamic player if healthy but that's not often and he has two years $41 million left on his deal. What do you think a realistic return would be for him?

Post #2 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:04 pm

Gasol and Rose for Melo and Calderon.

Post #3 » by **Texas Chuck** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:05 pm

His value has to be negative to everyone but the Bulls. You absolutely cannot trust him to stay healthy nor play through normal bumps and bruises and even when he does play he's no longer worth that contract.

You'd need a desperate team to even move him imo.

Post #4 » by **loserX** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:20 pm

There is a chance for reward there, but there's also HUGE (and expensive) risk. Even if you do find someone interested, his trade value is going to reflect that.

(Also hadn't heard that there may be issues between him and Butler. Bulls fans out there: any truth to this?)

Post #5 » by **BullyKing** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:39 pm

Assuming the Sixers strike out with free agents (or don't even try), Rose is the kind of guy I'd like to try and acquire with incentive. I'm not saying you'd need four 1sts back (going rate for that much money). If the Bulls traded Rose, Noah and Taj, I think they'd have enough money to unite the Gasol brothers and sign a decent enough point guard to replace Rose.

Assuming the Bulls have a deal in place with Marc and the Celtics strike out on Love, something centered around Rose to Sixers, Noah to Celtics (with Wallace and more incentives going to Philly) and then Philly selling off Gibson for value? The sequence of deals is a little tricky because Rose, Wallace and Gibson would put the Sixers on the cap I believe.

Cliff Levingston · Post #6 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:42 pm

loserX wrote:There is a chance for reward there, but there's also HUGE (and expensive) risk. Even if you do find someone interested, his trade value is going to reflect that.

(Also hadn't heard that there may be issues between him and Butler. Bulls fans out there: any truth to this?)

Not really. Two guys who want the ball to try to score and carry their team. Butler wanted the ball more when Rose was chucking up bad shots. It came out that Butler was frustrated or something by it. According to RealGM, it means Butler and Rose can't co-exist and Butler now won't come back to the Bulls because of it, even if the Bulls were able to pay him $100 million per year.

It's a non-issue completely. The only issue with Butler is that he'll want to make as much money as he can, so he ideally doesn't want the 5 year max right now. He'd have to take a 3 year deal from an opposing team in order to sign an offer sheet which would be less than the 5 year max the Bulls will offer. Either that or he takes the risk, signs the QO and goes unrestricted next year.

Cliff Levingston · Post #7 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:47 pm

Also, the Bulls aren't going to trade Rose. He's still young, his injury(ies) aren't degenerative and he had some flashes of brilliance last year. There's a chance he gets back to being an elite player again, albeit a small one. And worst case, he becomes a big expiring deal next offseason.

Post #8 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:03 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:Also, the Bulls aren't going to trade Rose. He's still young, his injury(ies) aren't degenerative and he had some flashes of brilliance last year. There's a chance he gets back to being an elite player again, albeit a small one. And worst case, he becomes a big expiring deal next offseason.

This surprises me. If there really is static between Rose and Butler, I would think the Bulls would be open to moving Rose at this point.

Cliff Levingston · Post #9 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:This surprises me. If there really is static between Rose and Butler, I would think the Bulls would be open to moving Rose at this point.

There isn't. Not more than both guys wanting to be major focal points of their team, which a lot of guys do.

Post #10 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:22 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:This surprises me. If there really is static between Rose and Butler, I would think the Bulls would be open to moving Rose at this point.

There isn't. Not more than both guys wanting to be major focal points of their team, which a lot of guys do.

The reports, which could all be the product of the Lakers' FO spreading BS and media sources wanting that market to thrive, made it sound like maybe it was a little more serious than that. Honestly, neither guys should be the focal point of the offense at this point. Butler is best as a second option and Rose is best as a facilitator when he's not chucking up one bad perimeter shot after another.

Cliff Levingston · Post #11 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:30 pm

jbk1234 wrote:The reports, which could all be the product of the Lakers' FO spreading BS and media sources wanting that market to thrive, made it sound like maybe it was a little more serious than that. Honestly, neither guys should be the focal point of the offense at this point. Butler is best as a second option and Rose is best as a facilitator when he's not chucking up one bad perimeter shot after another.

The media will take any shred of anything and blow it up as much as possible to sell papers or get clicks or whatever. It's not an issue. And yes, the Bulls do have crappy players. Kinda spinning their wheels.

Post #12 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:32 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The reports, which could all be the product of the Lakers' FO spreading BS and media sources wanting that market to thrive, made it sound like maybe it was a little more serious than that. Honestly, neither guys should be the focal point of the offense at this point. Butler is best as a second option and Rose is best as a facilitator when he's not chucking up one bad perimeter shot after another.

The media will take any shred of anything and blow it up as much as possible to sell papers or get clicks or whatever. It's not an issue. And yes, the Bulls do have crappy players. Kinda spinning their wheels.

I think Jimmy Butler is a baller. The fact that I don't think he's an ideal first option shouldn't be read to mean that I don't think he's a very valuable player. If it came to Jimmy or Rose, I wouldn't even hesitate at this point.

Cliff Levingston · Post #13 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I think Jimmy Butler is a baller. The fact that I don't think he's an ideal first option shouldn't be read to mean that I don't think he's a very valuable player. If it came to Jimmy or Rose, I wouldn't even hesitate at this point.

If the Bulls' normal luck takes over, Jimmy will take the max deal they offer then proceed to suck.

And yea, no one in the league wants Rose right now, including the Bulls. The Bulls are a pretty sorry team right now.