Mia/Dal/Phi (or Por): Chalmers/Felton/2 2nds

[HartfordWhalers]

Miami out: Chalmers, 2020 Miami 2nd
Miami in: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights

Dallas out: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd
Dallas in: Chalmers

Phi (or Por) out: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights
Phi (or Por) in: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd, 2020 Miami 2nd

Why?

Miami wants to dump Chalmers and save a bundle
Dallas gets a marginal upgrade
A team starting with a P gets 2 2nds for 4m.

[Texas Chuck]

My concern with Chalmers is that his 3-pt shooting fell off a cliff without Lebron's presence ensuring him very open looks.

I think I'd prefer to sign Lin if possible and use Felton's contract somewhere else.

Value is fine and it makes sense, but that shooting really concerns me since that's about all he ever brought. We need another guy who can help create some offense and for all his flaws Lin can do that.

[NBADraft2003]

No from Miami, we're not dumping anybody. It's already out there that our FO wants to keep the team together. The only other move that this team should make is getting another guard with the MLE.

[HartfordWhalers]

No from Miami, we're not dumping anybody. It's already out there that our FO wants to keep the team together. The only other move that this team should make is getting another guard with the MLE.

Link?

There were a lot of stories that the team wants to dump Chalmers for lux tax savings.

[NBADraft2003]

No from Miami, we're not dumping anybody. It's already out there that our FO wants to keep the team together. The only other move that this team should make is getting another guard with the MLE.

Link?

There were a lot of stories that the team wants to dump Chalmers for lux tax savings.

Radio from Etahn Skolnick(He covers the team).

[Wizenheimer]

(or Por) out: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights
(or Por) in: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd, 2020 Miami 2nd
.

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

[HartfordWhalers]

(or Por) out: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights
(or Por) in: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd, 2020 Miami 2nd
.

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

I don;t think either team would have him even report. So, it is just is his cap hit worth the gain, and obviously there is no way any team say no to that cap hit for 2 1sts...

[DeBlazerRiddem]

(or Por) out: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights
(or Por) in: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd, 2020 Miami 2nd
.

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

I disagree. What does it matter how toxic the relationship was? We aren't worried about fitting Felton into a starting role and winning like we were last time.

I think this looks like a fair price for a couple seconds. Granted they are low seconds and years away, but Portland needs to restock our war chest with these sort of things.


Additionally, it only looks like we have 2 PGs on the roster and Dame likes to get off PG duties from time to time, so having a 3rd PG would not be the worst way to get a couple extra (late) picks.

[Hardcore6erFan]

Decent trade for Sixers

[Wizenheimer]

(or Por) out: A top 55 protected 2nd or nonexistent rights
(or Por) in: Felton, 2017 Dallas 2nd, 2020 Miami 2nd
.

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

I think this looks like a fair price for a couple seconds.

in what world?

reportedly, Portland sold a 40th pick (Grant Jerrett) for less then 500K just two years ago

now, they buy a pair of picks (one of which is 5 years away) that might not even be in the top-15 of the 2nd round for 4 million? That's some nasty inflation

[HartfordWhalers]

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

I think this looks like a fair price for a couple seconds.

in what world?

reportedly, Portland sold a 40th pick (Grant Jerrett) for less then 500K just two years ago

now, they buy a pair of picks (one of which is 5 years away) that might not even be in the top-15 of the 2nd round for 4 million? That's some nasty inflation

Um, no. It fits this world.

20 second rounders have been acquired in salary dumps, and their average cost is $2,152,533 per pick.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/10/30/7130483/how-much-does-an-nba-draft-pick-cost

Pretty sure that 20 deals is a better sample than 1 sold pick, and for reference, 56 just went for 630k while mid 2nds have been going for 1-2m.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

you are underestimating how toxic the relationship between Felton and Portland was. Blazers might not even do that deal if those were 1sts instead of 2nds

I think this looks like a fair price for a couple seconds.

in what world?

reportedly, Portland sold a 40th pick (Grant Jerrett) for less then 500K just two years ago

now, they buy a pair of picks (one of which is 5 years away) that might not even be in the top-15 of the 2nd round for 4 million? That's some nasty inflation

Don't even bring up that #40 pick with me lol.. that's the one we should have outbid Utah with to get Gobert instead of selling it. Uhg I'm still bitter about that trade. Sorry.

But yes, my intuition was that 2ed rounders are ~2 million for a decent pick. Maybe this deal is a little expensive if the picks end up in the (most likely) 45-55 range but as long as we are under the minimum it's not going to handicap us, and Olshey has always put available 2ed rounders to use.

I dunno maybe I am being easy because I think the Blazers need to collect picks and don't have much to lose.

[Soulyss]

Portland will take Cheeseburger for a 1st, lottery protected.. and then cut him immediately before he's allowed into the state of Oregon.

Dallas never keeps their picks anyhow, they will cough up a 1st.

[Wizenheimer]

Um, no. It fits this world.

20 second rounders have been acquired in salary dumps, and their average cost is $2,152,533 per pick.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/10/30/7130483/how-much-does-an-nba-draft-pick-cost

Pretty sure that 20 deals is a better sample than 1 sold pick, and for reference, 56 just went for 630k while mid 2nds have been going for 1-2m.

I"m not buying the math the author used. In fact, I think it's seriously flawed, especially in the context of Portland/Felton

for instance, he comes up with 5.8 million as the price tag for a pair of 2nds when the Kings traded Terry to Houston. But Houston wasn't paying 5.8 million just for the 2nds...they wanted Terry as a rotation player. Portland would not want Felton as a rotation player.

he's given a 4 million value to a 2nd round pick because Min traded Ridnour to the Bucks and that was Ridnour's salary. But Ridnour was a PG and Milwaukee was looking for one

just look at the latest two examples he uses. 1.8 million for a pair of 2nds in a Knicks/76ers deal. And 1.1 million for a 2nd from Brooklyn

but the thing is, it's one thing to get future 2nds from teams that have been managed like the Nets, Knicks, and 76ers have been. It's another to go shopping for 2nds from Pat Riley and Mark Cuban.

another thing: I know Portland sold 2nds in both 2012 and 2013...a 40th and a 41st pick....yet those aren't on his list. How many other lower dollar transactions is the author missing. Think that might have a bearing on this?

[Wizenheimer]

Don't even bring up that #40 pick with me lol.. that's the one we should have outbid Utah with to get Gobert instead of selling it. Uhg I'm still bitter about that trade. Sorry.

But yes, my intuition was that 2ed rounders are ~2 million for a decent pick. Maybe this deal is a little expensive if the picks end up in the (most likely) 45-55 range but as long as we are under the minimum it's not going to handicap us, and Olshey has always put available 2ed rounders to use.

I dunno maybe I am being easy because I think the Blazers need to collect picks and don't have much to lose.

yeah, the Gobert thing is harder and harder to swallow, especially since the Blazers looked at him 3 times in workouts

I responded to the 2 million assertion...I don't buy it, so to speak

I'd like Portland to build a base of 2nds too. But I think you have to pick and choose who you deal with. Like I said above, I would not want Portland to count on Miami and Dallas to give up good value 2nds. Those teams are too well managed

[HartfordWhalers]

just look at the latest two examples he uses. 1.8 million for a pair of 2nds in a Knicks/76ers deal. And 1.1 million for a 2nd from Brooklyn

There was no pair of 2nds. It was a 2nd and the right to swap 2nds in the Knicks deal. And the Nets deal was by far one of the cheapest ones done recently so it looks like an outlier to me. If you prefer using an average price of 1.5m instead of 2m, I'm fine with that. I usually cite 1.5-2m as the cost of a 2nd, and have in past threads involving Portland.

[Wizenheimer]

just look at the latest two examples he uses. 1.8 million for a pair of 2nds in a Knicks/76ers deal. And 1.1 million for a 2nd from Brooklyn

There was no pair of 2nds. It was a 2nd and the right to swap 2nds in the Knicks deal. And the Nets deal was by far one of the cheapest ones done recently so it looks like an outlier to me. If you prefer using an average price of 1.5m instead of 2m, I'm fine with that. I usually cite 1.5-2m as the cost of a 2nd, and have in past threads involving Portland.

as I said, I know the Blazers flat-out sold two 2nds, one in 2012, the other in 2013. And those were a #40 and a #41. I read the 40 was sold for around 500K. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. I also know several 2nds have been sold over the years by many teams in just a 2nd for cash transaction. I did not see any of those deals on that list. Further, for the most part, those 2nd had their assigned slot position already so the teams knew what they were buying

wouldn't we need to know what all those single-pick-for-cash deals involved in order to guess a relative value of 2nd round picks?

[HartfordWhalers]

just look at the latest two examples he uses. 1.8 million for a pair of 2nds in a Knicks/76ers deal. And 1.1 million for a 2nd from Brooklyn

There was no pair of 2nds. It was a 2nd and the right to swap 2nds in the Knicks deal. And the Nets deal was by far one of the cheapest ones done recently so it looks like an outlier to me. If you prefer using an average price of 1.5m instead of 2m, I'm fine with that. I usually cite 1.5-2m as the cost of a 2nd, and have in past threads involving Portland.

as I said, I know the Blazers flat-out sold two 2nds, one in 2012, the other in 2013. And those were a #40 and a #41. I read the 40 was sold for around 500K. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. I also know several 2nds have been sold over the years by many teams in just a 2nd for cash transaction. I did not see any of those deals on that list. Further, for the most part, those 2nd had their assigned slot position already so the teams knew what they were buying

wouldn't we need to know what all those single-pick-for-cash deals involved in order to guess a relative value of 2nd round picks?

If you are buying a 2nd for cash knowing the cash price might help.

If you are buying a 2nd by absorbing salary, knowing those transactions might help.

But there are some obvious reasons why the two shouldn't 100% correlate.

Still, if you want more data on pick for direct cash sales here you go:

#41 cost $2M in 2012.
#44 cost $1.1M in 2014.
#53 cost ~$1M in 2014.
#54 cost 750k in 2012.
#59 cost 500k in 2014.
#60 cost 300k in 2014.

Early 2nd rounders used to cost $3M. Now, they don't appear to be even for sale anymore.

[Wizenheimer]

Still, if you want more data on pick for direct cash sales here you go:

#41 cost $2M in 2012.
#44 cost $1.1M in 2014.
#53 cost ~$1M in 2014.
#54 cost 750k in 2012.
#59 cost 500k in 2014.
#60 cost 300k in 2014.

where's that from?

the # 41 in 2012 was when Portland sold the rights to Tyshawn Taylor. All I remember hearing was that it might be well under 1 million. Now it's listed as being 2 million. I'd like to know where that info is from. Not saying it isn't accurate but I can't find any mention of price on google

by the way, I'm not trying to be argumentative about the trade idea. Legitimately curious about the prices paid for picks

[HartfordWhalers]

Still, if you want more data on pick for direct cash sales here you go:

#41 cost $2M in 2012.
#44 cost $1.1M in 2014.
#53 cost ~$1M in 2014.
#54 cost 750k in 2012.
#59 cost 500k in 2014.
#60 cost 300k in 2014.

where's that from?

the # 41 in 2012 was when Portland sold the rights to Tyshawn Taylor. All I remember hearing was that it might be well under 1 million. Now it's listed as being 2 million. I'd like to know where that info is from. Not saying it isn't accurate but I can't find any mention of price on google

http://www.netsdaily.com/2014/7/1/5860330/brooklyn-nets-draft-picture-brightens-just-a-tiny-bit

Well under a million seems really out of line, as Philly got more for a much worse pick.