Crawford, 1st for Kevin Martin

[nba2k16]

To Clippers:
G Kevin Martin ($7.085M this year, $7.378 next)
2017 2nd Round Pick

To TWolves:
G Jamal Crawford ($5.765M this year)
2019 1st Rd Pick (lottery protected)

Wolves maximize value for Martin after having an outstanding year. Get another future pick to add more young players or consolidate with other young players to acquire another star via trade. Accept Crawford to match salaries, could flip him for some value. 2nd they give up won't be of high value since they will be good by then.

Clippers, for not much more money, get an elite 3 point shooter and scorer off the bench. Can also start over Redick. Great team guy as well. Doesn't give you defense but neither did Crawford. Adds more 3 point shooting to the lineup which is necessary to stretch the floor and open up more space for CP3, Blake and DJ.

[Takingbaconback]

2017 1st round pick lottery protected. 2019 is too far off for my liking.

[nba2k16]

2017 1st round pick lottery protected. 2019 is too far off for my liking.

I would be open to that completely but we already traded that pick. Think it's in Toronto's hands now. 2019 is the earliest we can trade

[Takingbaconback]

2017 1st round pick lottery protected. 2019 is too far off for my liking.

I would be open to that completely but we already traded that pick. Think it's in Toronto's hands now. 2019 is the earliest we can trade

Oh I thought they only traded 2nd rounders off whoops. I'd be good with this. Not sure about Flip or other wolves fans.

[nba2k16]

2017 1st round pick lottery protected. 2019 is too far off for my liking.

I would be open to that completely but we already traded that pick. Think it's in Toronto's hands now. 2019 is the earliest we can trade

Oh I thought they only traded 2nd rounders off whoops. I'd be good with this. Not sure about Flip or other wolves fans.

Guess we'll find out soon what others think

[nickhx2]

kevin martin might be a worse defender than crawford, and that's already pretty bad.

now we have to give up a first rounder to get that back? and that horrible contract that extends into one of the craziest cap years in league history where cap space is at a premium? and you want to start him over JJ? what??? like seriously what?????

SG's already fine with JJ and lance. the team needs a C and a SF. not a bad contract who can't defend, and especially not one who sabotages the team.

[Domejandro]

kevin martin might be a worse defender than crawford, and that's already pretty bad.

now we have to give up a first rounder to get that back? and that horrible contract that extends into one of the craziest cap years in league history where cap space is at a premium? and you want to start him over JJ? what??? like seriously what?????

SG's already fine with JJ and lance. the team needs a C and a SF. not a bad contract who can't defend, and especially not one who sabotages the team.

He is going to opt out of his deal, there is absolutely no question about it. If he did not, that would be an absolutely steal for you guys at 7.3 million, but frankly, that will never happen. Also, Kevin Martin is a bloody dreadful defensive player, no doubt about it, but he is not worse than Jamal Crawford in my opinion.

In any case, I would absolutely do this deal, but I have doubts that the Los Angeles Clippers would do the deal simply because I am unsure whether they view the gap between the two players to be large enough to properly justify it.

[nba2k16]

kevin martin might be a worse defender than crawford, and that's already pretty bad.

now we have to give up a first rounder to get that back? and that horrible contract that extends into one of the craziest cap years in league history where cap space is at a premium? and you want to start him over JJ? what??? like seriously what?????

SG's already fine with JJ and lance. the team needs a C and a SF. not a bad contract who can't defend, and especially not one who sabotages the team.

He doesn't need to be an exceptional defender

He is not worse than Crawford, dude is 35 now

It's a protected 1st rounder so relax. Also getting a 2nd back they are not useless

Adding 7 mil does not have a material impact on the amount of cap space we have for 2016. Can still bring in max guys with how much the cap will rise

Staring over JJ is not outrageous. I'm not saying do it I'm saying it's an option although he is probably better suited for the bench. Keep in mind this is a 40% 3pt shooter who averaged 20 points a game last season... while he won't get nearly that volume of shots and points with the Clippers, the guy clearly has talent

Yes Clippers need an SF and C. I'm not saying we don't with this trade. Just bc this trade doesn't address those issues, doesnt mean it's invalid. Salary wise this does not affect the Clips ability to address those needs

What makes you think he will sabotage us? Huh?

So many things wrong with your post...

[nickhx2]

why is it a steal for the team if

a. he has no role on the team (jj is the starter, lance is the backup)
b. if he DOESN'T opt out, he takes up 7.3m of cap space
c. clips have to give up a first rounder to take back a non-entity who might potentially hurt the team's 2016 offseason?

[nba2k16]

why is it a steal for the team if

a. he has no role on the team (jj is the starter, lance is the backup)
b. if he DOESN'T opt out, he takes up 7.3m of cap space
c. clips have to give up a first rounder to take back a non-entity who might potentially hurt the team's 2016 offseason?

Where did I ever suggest it's a steal? I never did. This is fair trade. Don't make up s*it as*hole

A. Lance will play SF. Wes will not play regularly. Martin and Redick share SG
B. Chance he opts out and earns more. If he doesn't were prepared to keep him. 7 mil is a great price for him
C. Protected 1st. Will be a late 1st. Getting back a middling to high 2nd rounder. So basically moving down roughly 10 to 15 spots and bringing the asset closer to now (2019 to 2017). Doesn't hurt 2016 offseason

[nickhx2]

kevin martin might be a worse defender than crawford, and that's already pretty bad.

now we have to give up a first rounder to get that back? and that horrible contract that extends into one of the craziest cap years in league history where cap space is at a premium? and you want to start him over JJ? what??? like seriously what?????

SG's already fine with JJ and lance. the team needs a C and a SF. not a bad contract who can't defend, and especially not one who sabotages the team.

He doesn't need to be an exceptional defender

He is not worse than Crawford, dude is 35 now

It's a protected 1st rounder so relax. Also getting a 2nd back they are not useless

Adding 7 mil does not have a material impact on the amount of cap space we have for 2016. Can still bring in max guys with how much the cap will rise

Staring over JJ is not outrageous. I'm not saying do it I'm saying it's an option although he is probably better suited for the bench. Keep in mind this is a 40% 3pt shooter who averaged 20 points a game last season... while he won't get nearly that volume of shots and points with the Clippers, the guy clearly has talent

Yes Clippers need an SF and C. I'm not saying we don't with this trade. Just bc this trade doesn't address those issues, doesnt mean it's invalid. Salary wise this does not affect the Clips ability to address those needs

What makes you think he will sabotage us? Huh?

So many things wrong with your post...

i didn't say he was worse than crawford. i said he might be a worse defender than crawford. i'd take kevin martin's shooting and spacing any day over crawford on offense if the team had a spot for him AND there were no viable alternative. but there is an alternative and there is no space for martin.

protected first rounder or not, it doesn't matter. doc has killed the team with his short-sightedness. he's thankfully stopped digging the grave, but if he starts throwing first rounders away for this swill then he's just digging a deeper hole, again.

your math is wrong if you think we can bring in a max contract even if kevin martin opts in. normally i'd just show the work myself but you're just making an erroneous claim here. go do it yourself and you'll see why.

20ppg. great, so you think a guy who can score is all that? you realize martin has had a history of being a great scorer on bad teams all his entire career? besides, if he was so great then why didn't okc keep him? and no, martin is not an option for starting over jj redick. ever.

you ask me why you think he will sabotage the team. i'll repeat it in case it's not clear. there's no room for kevin martin. his contract is extremely damaging. and you want to give up a first rounder when the team is already devoid of flexible assets. the irony is that you think my posts are wrong, well, heh. just gonna laugh at that.

[nickhx2]

why is it a steal for the team if

a. he has no role on the team (jj is the starter, lance is the backup)
b. if he DOESN'T opt out, he takes up 7.3m of cap space
c. clips have to give up a first rounder to take back a non-entity who might potentially hurt the team's 2016 offseason?

Where did I ever suggest it's a steal? I never did. This is fair trade. Don't make up s*it as*hole

A. Lance will play SF. Wes will not play regularly. Martin and Redick share SG
B. Chance he opts out and earns more. If he doesn't were prepared to keep him. 7 mil is a great price for him
C. Protected 1st. Will be a late 1st. Getting back a middling to high 2nd rounder. So basically moving down roughly 10 to 15 spots and bringing the asset closer to now (2019 to 2017). Doesn't hurt 2016 offseason

lol

read post above yours by domejandro. just gonna ignore the rest since you'll prob get modded anyway.

anyway. wes johnson, unless he totally sucks, will be backup SF. as such, lance will be playing SG, so as a result, no room for martin. even if lance plays SF, then rivers will be asked to play SG while prigioni plays PG. so again, no room for martin.

not sure why you think 7m is a great price for a dude who's an atrocious defender who doesn't contribute to winning teams.

and finally it's not about the pole position of the pick. it's the fact that it's a 1st rounder and it has value to other teams because it has the "1st round" label. when you are in a position where you have extremely limited assets and flexibility, throwing away your best incoming assets is very, very bad. that seems pretty obvious.

[Domejandro]

Wes johnson, unless he totally sucks, will be backup SF. as such, lance will be playing SG, so as a result, no room for martin. even if lance plays SF, then rivers will be asked to play SG while prigioni plays PG. so again, no room for martin.

not sure why you think 7m is a great price for a dude who's an atrocious defender who doesn't contribute to winning teams.

and finally it's not about the pole position of the pick. it's the fact that it's a 1st rounder and it has value to other teams because it has the "1st round" label. when you are in a position where you have extremely limited assets and flexibility, throwing away your best incoming assets is very, very bad. that seems pretty obvious.

Though I do agree that the roster is slightly cluttered, I could very well see Pablo Prigioni being relegated to a very small role and Austin Rivers becoming the main, back-up Point-Guard. Wesley Johnson is absolutely bloody dreadful and was actually failing to get minutes on last year's Los Angeles Lakers because of how poorly he was playing. I hate to be a cynic (that is a bit of lie, as I am a cynic by nature, haha), but Wesley Johnson is likely to be a bench warmer for you guys. Because of this, I could most certainly see a defined role for Kevin Martin on the team.

When you exclude his dreadful rookie season, Kevin Martin is a career twenty point per game scorer who shoots almost ninety percent on free throws, is a forty percent three point shooter over the course of his career, and has an effective field goal percentage of over 51%. When he had a limited role with Oklahoma he shot a phenomenal 42.6% from three and had a 55% eFG, the dude is a scoring machine. His defense is very poor, but Jamal Crawford's is far worse.

In addition, there is absolutely no way he is opting in unless he blows out his Achilles tendon, but if he somehow did opt in, he truly would be a steal (you would be able to ship him off very easily.

I will agree however that utilizing first round picks does greatly limit flexibility which is a huge concern, but the reason I believe the Los Angeles Clippers would consider the deal is that doing this would make them a much more dynamic team.

[bondom34]

why is it a steal for the team if

a. he has no role on the team (jj is the starter, lance is the backup)
b. if he DOESN'T opt out, he takes up 7.3m of cap space
c. clips have to give up a first rounder to take back a non-entity who might potentially hurt the team's 2016 offseason?

Where did I ever suggest it's a steal? I never did. This is fair trade. Don't make up s*it as*hole

A. Lance will play SF. Wes will not play regularly. Martin and Redick share SG
B. Chance he opts out and earns more. If he doesn't were prepared to keep him. 7 mil is a great price for him
C. Protected 1st. Will be a late 1st. Getting back a middling to high 2nd rounder. So basically moving down roughly 10 to 15 spots and bringing the asset closer to now (2019 to 2017). Doesn't hurt 2016 offseason

That's an attack. And a warn.

[nickhx2]

Wes johnson, unless he totally sucks, will be backup SF. as such, lance will be playing SG, so as a result, no room for martin. even if lance plays SF, then rivers will be asked to play SG while prigioni plays PG. so again, no room for martin.

not sure why you think 7m is a great price for a dude who's an atrocious defender who doesn't contribute to winning teams.

and finally it's not about the pole position of the pick. it's the fact that it's a 1st rounder and it has value to other teams because it has the "1st round" label. when you are in a position where you have extremely limited assets and flexibility, throwing away your best incoming assets is very, very bad. that seems pretty obvious.

Though I do agree that the roster is slightly cluttered, I could very well see Pablo Prigioni being relegated to a very small role and Austin Rivers becoming the main, back-up Point-Guard. Wesley Johnson is absolutely bloody dreadful and was actually failing to get minutes on last year's Los Angeles Lakers because of how poorly he was playing. I hate to be a cynic (that is a bit of lie, as I am a cynic by nature, haha), but Wesley Johnson is likely to be a bench warmer for you guys. Because of this, I could most certainly see a defined role for Kevin Martin on the team.

When you exclude his dreadful rookie season, Kevin Martin is a career twenty point per game scorer who shoots almost ninety percent on free throws, is a forty percent three point shooter over the course of his career, and has an effective field goal percentage of over 51%. When he had a limited role with Oklahoma he shot a phenomenal 42.6% from three and had a 55% eFG, the dude is a scoring machine. His defense is very poor, but Jamal Crawford's is far worse.

In addition, there is absolutely no way he is opting in unless he blows out his Achilles tendon, but if he somehow did opt in, he truly would be a steal (you would be able to ship him off very easily.

I will agree however that utilizing first round picks does greatly limit flexibility which is a huge concern, but the reason I believe the Los Angeles Clippers would consider the deal is that doing this would make them a much more dynamic team.

At 38 years old I can agree with you on prigioni not being made to be a more oft-used cog in the rotation. The problem with rivers, however, is that he's simply not very good at all unless he's off the ball. So it's more often than not going to be lance as the primary ball-handler.

Now, could wes johnson totally suck, forcing him to be the 3rd stringer with lance now the point-forward? Totally. And that gives the team more of a need at the two. However, as it stands, doc is finally coming to the realization that they want more defense off the bench, not more offense. The team tried to make moves fixing that this summer. Taking on martin goes back to doc's earlier moves where he thought mullens/jamison/granger/farmar/hawes would somehow make an elite offense more dynamic (it didn't) and instead it sunk the team's defense down to middling levels, something that killed them in the playoffs over and over again. And while martin's a significantly better offensive option than any of those names, he's still just as bad or worse a defensive one as well. Looking at doc's moves this offseason, i think he's finally realized his errors on that front. Adding kevin martin is another early-doc-gm move and I don't see him going back on it.


So, yeah If wes johnson is completely unusable, they may try to get a replacement, but i highly doubt it'll be the kind of guy who's good in theory for the offense but in actuality horrible for the defense. I've long wanted another jj redick clone but the team doesn't operate well with jj playing with backups. So why would a poor man's jj do anything to make the offense better? I just don't see it doing much for us. It's not worth it at all, especially not at the cost of a first rounder.

[nba2k16]

Wes johnson, unless he totally sucks, will be backup SF. as such, lance will be playing SG, so as a result, no room for martin. even if lance plays SF, then rivers will be asked to play SG while prigioni plays PG. so again, no room for martin.

not sure why you think 7m is a great price for a dude who's an atrocious defender who doesn't contribute to winning teams.

and finally it's not about the pole position of the pick. it's the fact that it's a 1st rounder and it has value to other teams because it has the "1st round" label. when you are in a position where you have extremely limited assets and flexibility, throwing away your best incoming assets is very, very bad. that seems pretty obvious.

Though I do agree that the roster is slightly cluttered, I could very well see Pablo Prigioni being relegated to a very small role and Austin Rivers becoming the main, back-up Point-Guard. Wesley Johnson is absolutely bloody dreadful and was actually failing to get minutes on last year's Los Angeles Lakers because of how poorly he was playing. I hate to be a cynic (that is a bit of lie, as I am a cynic by nature, haha), but Wesley Johnson is likely to be a bench warmer for you guys. Because of this, I could most certainly see a defined role for Kevin Martin on the team.

When you exclude his dreadful rookie season, Kevin Martin is a career twenty point per game scorer who shoots almost ninety percent on free throws, is a forty percent three point shooter over the course of his career, and has an effective field goal percentage of over 51%. When he had a limited role with Oklahoma he shot a phenomenal 42.6% from three and had a 55% eFG, the dude is a scoring machine. His defense is very poor, but Jamal Crawford's is far worse.

In addition, there is absolutely no way he is opting in unless he blows out his Achilles tendon, but if he somehow did opt in, he truly would be a steal (you would be able to ship him off very easily.

I will agree however that utilizing first round picks does greatly limit flexibility which is a huge concern, but the reason I believe the Los Angeles Clippers would consider the deal is that doing this would make them a much more dynamic team.

Well said! Agree with all your points

[nba2k16]

why is it a steal for the team if

a. he has no role on the team (jj is the starter, lance is the backup)
b. if he DOESN'T opt out, he takes up 7.3m of cap space
c. clips have to give up a first rounder to take back a non-entity who might potentially hurt the team's 2016 offseason?

Where did I ever suggest it's a steal? I never did. This is fair trade. Don't make up s*it as*hole

A. Lance will play SF. Wes will not play regularly. Martin and Redick share SG
B. Chance he opts out and earns more. If he doesn't were prepared to keep him. 7 mil is a great price for him
C. Protected 1st. Will be a late 1st. Getting back a middling to high 2nd rounder. So basically moving down roughly 10 to 15 spots and bringing the asset closer to now (2019 to 2017). Doesn't hurt 2016 offseason

lol

read post above yours by domejandro. just gonna ignore the rest since you'll prob get modded anyway.

anyway. wes johnson, unless he totally sucks, will be backup SF. as such, lance will be playing SG, so as a result, no room for martin. even if lance plays SF, then rivers will be asked to play SG while prigioni plays PG. so again, no room for martin.

not sure why you think 7m is a great price for a dude who's an atrocious defender who doesn't contribute to winning teams.

and finally it's not about the pole position of the pick. it's the fact that it's a 1st rounder and it has value to other teams because it has the "1st round" label. when you are in a position where you have extremely limited assets and flexibility, throwing away your best incoming assets is very, very bad. that seems pretty obvious.

Wes Johnson does totally sucks. Lance would be better as a backup SF despite being undersized than Wes Johnson

Prig is the 3rd stringer. Austin is the backup PG. He doesn't play SG. Martin would fit well as backup SG after that

$7m is a great price for a very good 3 point shooter and pure scorer off the bench who is a good team guy and does not chuck shots. He plays within the offense and is highly efficient for a guard

Yes we have limited assets but at this point if you are going for a chip you bite the bullet in the short term to improve your team. It isn't throwing it away... this is a significant improvement to the team.

Also GMs are smarter than that. They don't just look the round of the pick without realizing where I will land. To an average fan, yes that sounds better, but GMs aren't idiots and don't fall for marketing techniques. It's the reason Cleveland have up two 1st rounders for Mozgov... Denver is fully aware that they will be very late picks.

[ejftw]

Kevin Martin is NOT a first round pick better than Jamal, in no way shape or form. Straight up or nothing.

As far as this Wes discussion goes, I'd rather start him, have him only play 10-20 mpg with PP getting the bulk and Lance getting the left over

[nba2k16]

Kevin Martin is NOT a first round pick better than Jamal, in no way shape or form. Straight up or nothing.

As far as this Wes discussion goes, I'd rather start him, have him only play 10-20 mpg with PP getting the bulk and Lance getting the left over

Too many people look at this and go "oh no a 1st rounder!" It's a drop in the draft of 10 to 15 spots effectively, just in different years. If anything, we're getting a more present asset. Kevin Martin is a decent upgrade over Crawford and worth moving down in the draft. It's not reasonable to trade for superstar upgrades. These are the kinds of additions that are available for a capped out team. We're not getting Durant via trade or something