PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: Philadelphia 76ers

[Texas Chuck]

PMOTT3's Review:

Losses:

(Totally agree with CT here which is why I'm just copy & pasting)

This is awfully hard to totally figure out without digging deeper than I want to. They lose no one of consequence. Bigger names are Mbah a Moute and Jason Richardson and Thomas Robinson?

Draft:

Jahlil Okafor
Richaun Holmes
Arturas Gudaitis
JP Tokoto
Luka Mitrovic

I'm actually really glad they decided to take Okafor. With Embiid looking more and more like Greg Ogden 2.0 this was a good draft decision and he was BPA at #3.

The rest are just guys i dont really know anything about.

Im a little disappointed in them for not making any trades on draft night to move up. They had plenty of 2nds and future 2nds as well. Maybe Hinkie got too greedy?

Trades:

.A future 2nd and rights to two foreign guys for Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Nick Stauskas, right to swap picks with the Kings if it falls inside the top 10 in 2016, right to swap in 2017 with same protections unless the Kings 2016 pick goes to Chicago in which case the swap rights have no protections, 2018 Kings 1st (top 10 for one year then unprotected.

.Jason Thompson for Gerald Wallace

Two very smart trades. The Stauskas trade is just brilliant and comes with no potential downside but massive potential upside.

The Thompson for Wallace trade saves them cash and they get worse in the process; win-win.

Free Agency:

Pierre Jackson
Scotty Wilbekin

this is the definition of "just guys"

Current Depth Chart:

*I'm not even doing a depth chart because almost all of it would be a total guess.

Needs:

They need to speed up "the process". The re-build has gone on for 3 years and counting now; any longer and they are going to have to find a new fanbase. I just think a 3 year window should be the longest a re-build has to take. adding more NBA talent would be second on my list.

Additional Thoughts:

Nobody is on the level of tanking like the Sixers are. I think the reason most teams in the league choose not to tank is because they use Philly as their main example of why not to. It's been a 3 year tankathon and what has it amounted to? The tank is still on-going into year 4 now and could even go into year 5 as well. Unless Philly is able to have something to show for all this years down the road, i dont see other teams following suit.

Win/Loss Prediction: 21-61

the tank lives on!

Off-Season Grade: A-

Excellent trades, drafted BPA with Okafor, and maintained cap space. My only dock on them is that i thought they should have been a little more aggressive on draft night and turned their quantity of draft picks into quality draft picks. #TrustTheProcess

Chuck Texas' Review:

Losses:

This is awfully hard to totally figure out without digging deeper than I want to. They lose no one of consequence. Bigger names are Mbah a Moute and Jason Richardson and Thomas Robinson?

Draft:

Jahlil Okafor
Richaun Holmes
Arturas Gudaitis
JP Tokoto
Luka Mitrovic

They get the guy who had been considered the top prospect for a long time in Okafor. I'll never dock a team for taking the guy they feel is BPA. I would have taken Porzingis because while his floor is much much lower than Okafor I think his ceiling is higher and I just loved the idea of him and Noel playing together. But this was a strong pick and with more bad Embiid news....

Trades:
A future 2nd and rights to 2 foreign guys for Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Nick Stauskas, right to swap picks with the Kings if it falls inside the top 10 in 2016, Right to swap in 2017 with same protections unless the Kings 2016 pick goes to Chicago in which case the swap rights have no protections, 2018 Kings 1st(top 10 for one year then unprotected.

Jason Thompson for Crash Wallace

So the Kings trade is a home run even if the swaps amount to nothing. But the Kings could still be a lottery team the next 2 years even with the added talent and the Sixers stand to benefit if the Kings moved up to the top 3. But other than they they get Stauskas and a future pick with extremely favorable protections.

Thompson for Crash was suggested by our own Hartford Whalers and it just made sense for both.

Free Agency: (giggle)
Pierre Jackson
Scottie Wilbekin

Obviously the Sixers aren't really doing free agency preferring to sell their cap space for more assets. nothing wrong with these 2 cheap signings.

Depth Chart (uh....)

Okafor/Aldemir
Noel/Landry
Grant/Sampson/Crash
Covington/Thompson/Stauskas
Canaan/Jackson/Wilbekin (Wroten)

Needs:
Obviously more NBA talent. Embiid to be able to play. They aren't trying to win tho so pointing out holes is meaningless. Just keep piling up assets

Additional Thoughts:
Sixers have been on an asset-collecting mission going on 3 years now and I think its time to start showing some return. I know next year is supposed to be the big year for cashing in on 1sts they have been collecting, so we'll probably have to wait more.

Win-loss Prediction: 20-62

Just not enough talent especially at guard.

Off-Season Grade: A

Look their plan is what it is and they executed it well. Drafted BPA, made a killer trade for more assets, maintained cap space to sell at the deadline. Have a plan, stick to the plan.

[Hawk Eye]

After reading my review i think i may have come off as a tad harsh on the Sixers. I actually am a believer in tanking and collecting assets i just would never run a 4-5 year long tanking period.

[the_process]

Just as a reminder, the Bynum year was not a tanking year and occurred under the old management.

This is year 3 we are entering with Hinkie.

[BullyKing]

After reading my review i think i may have come off as a tad harsh on the Sixers. I actually am a believer in tanking and collecting assets i just would never run a 4-5 year long tanking period.

I don't have any issues with your substantive analysis but you say that "It's been a 3 year tankathon and what has it amounted to? The tank is still on-going into year 4 now and could even go into year 5 as well. " That's incorrect. This will be the third year of the tank and not the fourth.

[BullyKing]

Generally to both of you, I agree with your assessments totally. I think you did a good job of evaluating the offseason on its own without filtering through whatever your opinions of the plan may be in general. If you accept that this is the Sixers plan, regardless of whether or not you like it, I think it was a successful offseason for the reasons for mentioned. Obviously the Embiid injury is a significant setback but that is what it is and out of everyone's control.

[Hawk Eye]

Whoops, thats my mistake then. I was counting the Bynum year so if we aren't going by that year then this is year 3.

Would also like to get the input from you sixers fans on how the off-season went (and perhaps some grades while your at it?)

[Texas Chuck]

Generally to both of you, I agree with your assessments totally. I think you did a good job of evaluating the offseason on its own without filtering through whatever your opinions of the plan may be in general. If you accept that this is the Sixers plan, regardless of whether or not you like it, I think it was a successful offseason for the reasons for mentioned. Obviously the Embiid injury is a significant setback but that is what it is and out of everyone's control.

Thanks BK.

And yeah I try and judge each team based on what their plan appears to be and how well they executed the plan. And I think the Sixers executed their plan really well this off-season.

I tried not to really go into my opinions on the plan for fear of a derailment, but in theory I agree with what they are doing and I'm glad someone is pushing the boundaries on a total scorched earth rebuild like this. And I do feel like Hinkie is consistently getting good value in almost all of these transactions during the process so as long as luck holds(excluding Embiid atm) it should start to pay some dividends down the road.

It would tough to go through as a fan of basketball having to watch a subpar product, but as a guy who loves playing amateur GM--I love it.

[HartfordWhalers]

Draft:
Jahlil Okafor
Richaun Holmes
--Guillermo Hernangómez -- traded see below
--Arturas Gudaitis -- traded see below
JP Tokoto -- contract situation pending
--Luka Mitrovic -- traded see below

Trades:

Guillermo Hernangómez (picked 35th for 2020 and 2021 KNY 2nds and 1.5m cash (non-sequential bills)

A future 2nd and rights to two foreign guys for Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Nick Stauskas, right to swap picks with the Kings if it falls inside the top 10 in 2016, right to swap in 2017 with same protections unless the Kings 2016 pick goes to Chicago in which case the swap rights have no protections, 2018 Kings 1st (top 10 for one year then unprotected.
-- This trade was just Gudaitis and Mitrovic, not a future 2nd.

Jason Thompson for Gerald Wallace
-- Along with Gerald Wallace, Philly got 1m cash (sequential bills), and right to swap the worst of Miami and OKC '16 1sts with GS 1st.

Free Agency:
Pierre Jackson
Scotty Wilbekin
(TJ McConnel supposedly was signing but hasn't yet)

Current Depth Chart:
Wroten (inj) / Canaan / Pierre Jackson
Stauskas / Thompson / Wilbekin
Covington / Grant / Sampson / Wallace (likely cut)
Noel / Holnes (inj) / Landry (inj)
Okafor / Furkan / Embiid (out all year)

Holmes should be ready for season start, Wroten possibly close to it, Landry later.

Added the missing draft night trade, and corrected the small details on the other two trades, as well as gave a best take depth chart for now.

[ckchen]

Arturas Gudaitis, Luka Mitrovic were the two "foreign guys" that were involved in the Stauskas trade.

Free Agency also included TJ McConnell. Not that that changes anything.

[loserX]

Yeah, putting aside whether one likes the plan or not, they stuck to it.

They drafted the BPA with their first round pick (a lot of people seem to forget that Okafor, not Towns, was the consensus #1 pick until the last few weeks before the draft). They didn't really see many guys in the second round worth keeping so they deferred or stashed (later to trade).

The Kings trade was obviously a move worth making even if those pick swaps don't pan out. The Wallace trade was a win too.

Their FA plan was not to sign anyone except cheap longshots, and they did that. (Jackson is somehwat talented but I hope his injuries haven't permanently damaged his career.)

They did what they set out to do and got positive value at most turns.

[Hawk Eye]

Draft:
Jahlil Okafor
Richaun Holmes
--Guillermo Hernangómez -- traded see below
--Arturas Gudaitis -- traded see below
JP Tokoto -- contract situation pending
--Luka Mitrovic -- traded see below

Trades:

Guillermo Hernangómez (picked 35th for 2020 and 2021 KNY 2nds and 1.5m cash (non-sequential bills)

A future 2nd and rights to two foreign guys for Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Nick Stauskas, right to swap picks with the Kings if it falls inside the top 10 in 2016, right to swap in 2017 with same protections unless the Kings 2016 pick goes to Chicago in which case the swap rights have no protections, 2018 Kings 1st (top 10 for one year then unprotected.
-- This trade was just Gudaitis and Mitrovic, not a future 2nd.

Jason Thompson for Gerald Wallace
-- Along with Gerald Wallace, Philly got 1m cash (sequential bills), and right to swap the worst of Miami and OKC '16 1sts with GS 1st.

Free Agency:
Pierre Jackson
Scotty Wilbekin
(TJ McConnel supposedly was signing but hasn't yet)

Current Depth Chart:
Wroten (inj) / Canaan / Pierre Jackson
Stauskas / Thompson / Wilbekin
Covington / Grant / Sampson / Wallace (likely cut)
Noel / Holnes (inj) / Landry (inj)
Okafor / Furkan / Embiid (out all year)

Holmes should be ready for season start, Wroten possibly close to it, Landry later.

Added the missing draft night trade, and corrected the small details on the other two trades, as well as gave a best take depth chart for now.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the sixers off-season as well as your grade HW. Hopefully mine and Chuck's reviews weren't too terrible (although it looks like we needed quite a bit of correcting )

[CBA]

They had tough luck moving down in the lottery and losing Embiid for the year. Past that, they've executed perfectly. Perhaps you could knock them for being unable to secure meetings with young star players in Kawhi/Butler/Green, but those guys weren't going anywhere anyway.

edit: My mistake. They actually didn't move down. It was the Knicks who moved down which had the same effect of removing D'Angelo Russell from the third spot.

[bondom34]

This one's weird. They did everything well, I really can't dock them for anything, but I feel like they're starting to reach a point where they have to do something to at least be (a little) competitive. That said, everything they've done made sense including Okafor considering the questions around Embiid. A really controversial team but I don't see much fault, going B+.

[CoreyGallagher]

Yeah, it's been 2 years and 3 offseasons, Hinkie was hired in May 2013.

They had tough luck moving down in the lottery and losing Embiid for the year. Past that, they've executed perfectly. Perhaps you could knock them for being unable to secure meetings with young star players in Kawhi/Butler/Green, but those guys weren't going anywhere anyway.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/06/30/report-sixers-had-a-meeting-scheduled-with-jimmy-butler/

Supposedly did have a meeting scheduled with Jimmy Butler, but then the Bulls offered him the max QO.

[BullyKing]

I would also give it a B+. The Sixers sat out free agency but that was more or less expected anyway so we're really talking about the draft and trades. Starting with the trades, I cannot express how much I loved the Sac trade. I just think it was a gigantic return for the cap space. And while I don't think you need to be the "winner" for a trade to be good (see recent PHI-GSW as a win-win example), I can't help but mention that the recent Dun'c on Podcast had it as one of the worst three trades already since the lockout. I think that's reflective of what I feel like was significant return for taking on two contracts that aren't that big of a deal. So that trade, and the subsequent consolidation of Thompson's two years into Wallace's 1, is an A for me.

I was less thrilled with the draft but I would be lying if I didn't admit to some bias here. I love Embiid and my reaction to the pick was somewhat influenced because I saw it as an indication that the Embiid setback was significant (since confirmed). Okafor was the right selection there and BPA to me but I can't give too high a grade for just taking the remaining player of what was widely considered a top-3 tier. The second round for me really lost of interest when the interesting second round Europeans withdraw en masse so I had no problem moving some of those for future picks. But I agree with Chuck and PMott to being somewhat disappointed at the failure to move back into the 1st round to grab someone like Jerian Grant. I would give the draft a B-/C+.

So overall, a B+ seems about right. I'm interested to see what Hinkie does with the remaining cap space this year as I doubt you will be able to fetch much in salary dumps moving forward. There are just going to be too many teams with space to really hold the rare team that will need to create space ransom.

[sonictecture]

The genius of "the plan" is apparently all you have to do is stick with the plan and observers will feel as though you had a successful off season. For all of those who graded the Sixers, can you tell me that you used the same criteria that you graded any other team against?

The Sixers plan was often compared to how Presti rebuilt Seattle/OKC. Looking back Presti had drafted, Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and James Harden after his third draft. He had traded for Thabo Sefalosha and signed Nenad Krstic while maintaining cap space and flexibility.

Presti didn't draft the BPA based on common consensus he drafted the players he thought would come together as the best team. Presti didn't get A or A- offseason grades after drafting Westbrook and Ibaka, nor after he drafted Harden.

Hinkie is providing over a dumpster fire and observers are remarking about the pretty blue color of the flame.

[Texas Chuck]

The genius of "the plan" is apparently all you have to do is stick with the plan and observers will feel as though you had a successful off season. For all of those who graded the Sixers, can you tell me that you used the same criteria that you graded any other team against?

The Sixers plan was often compared to how Presti rebuilt Seattle/OKC. Looking back Presti had drafted, Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and James Harden after his third draft. He had traded for Thabo Sefalosha and signed Nenad Krstic while maintaining cap space and flexibility.

Presti didn't draft the BPA based on common consensus he drafted the players he thought would come together as the best team. Presti didn't get A or A- offseason grades after drafting Westbrook and Ibaka, nor after he drafted Harden.

Hinkie is providing over a dumpster fire and observers are remarking about the pretty blue color of the flame.

All we can do is judge in it real-time. I think everyone loved Durant from the get go, but with draft picks you don't know immediately how they are going to turn out. The one thing Hinkie is also doing is collecting lots of assets along the way. But we may someday feel about Saric, Noel, Okafor, one of next year's very high picks like we do the Thunder collection. Or they may miss like plenty of other repeat lotto teams have done. But Hinkie is giving himself more chances to hit and so I'm going to credit him for it.

Kudos to Presti for picking the right guys. He has gotten tons of credit for doing so. He nailed his picks and when he semi-missed on Jeff Green he turned into a missing piece at the time in Perkins. Obviously Hinkie has to hit on some of his or yeah this will be seen as an epic failure.

[sonictecture]

Does anyone love Hinkie's draft selections in real time?

Does anyone like how they fit together?

Every other team in the NBA is graded on the factor of time and somehow Hinkie and the Sixers are exempt. Hinkie has ignored both free agency and trades as a method to improve the team, but somehow is given credit for following "the plan".

[Texas Chuck]

Does anyone love Hinkie's draft selections in real time?

Does anyone like how they fit together?

Every other team in the NBA is graded on the factor of time and somehow Hinkie and the Sixers are exempt. Hinkie has ignored both free agency and trades as a method to improve the team, but somehow is given credit for following "the plan".

are you kidding? His trades are a huge part of what we like. He keeps getting good value by selling cap space rather than signing guys who aren't long-term solutions.

And some people are hard on them for being at this too long. PMOTT3 mentioned he thought it was time to start improving. Me I'm okay with them pushing this one more year and really seeing this out. Next year is when they should really start reaping the draft rewards and will have some attractive pieces to lure in FA's and they will have gobs of assets when they flip to being buyers.

Again, if this fails to get them a superstar it won't work and no other teams are likely to try it. But if the ownership is buying in....

[BullyKing]

Does anyone love Hinkie's draft selections in real time?

Does anyone like how they fit together?

Every other team in the NBA is graded on the factor of time and somehow Hinkie and the Sixers are exempt. Hinkie has ignored both free agency and trades as a method to improve the team, but somehow is given credit for following "the plan".

With the exception of MCW, he took who I would have taken at each selection so far. I'm not sure if that meets your definition of love. Everyone knew Embiid was a risk that so far hasn't panned out but isn't an indication of Hinkie's talent evaluation abilities. MCW played better than his position and allowed Hinkie to trade him for a better asset. Saric had a very successful year in Turkey and improved his three point shooting throughout the year. Noel outplayed any reasonable expectations last year and exhibited the potential to be a top-5 defensive player in the near future. It might not be Prestie's track record but I don't see how it is a reason to question his talent evaluation yet. That is to say nothing of his seeming hits in the second (Grant, KJ) and the dumpster bin (Covington, Hollis Thompson).