TOR / OKC / ATL: Revision

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #1 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 8:04 pm

To Toronto: Serge Ibaka

To ATL: Patrick Patterson + Bebe + NYK 2016 1st RD Pick + LAC 2017 1st RD Pick

To OKC: Al Horford

Raptors get a guy with term and who has connections with Masai

Atlanta rebuilds with picks, one in the lottery.

Oklahoma City gets a guy who played college ball for the coach and who will convince Durant to stay IMO

Lowry / Joesph / Wright
Derozan / Ross / Powell
Carroll / JJ / Bruno
Ibaka / Scola / Bennett
Val / Biyombo / Roberts (called up)

Ibaka fits perfectly.

Post #2 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 8:07 pm

still don't see why Atlanta cuts the Raptors in. Ibaka is worth more than that package obviously.

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #3 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 8:14 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:still don't see why Atlanta cuts the Raptors in. Ibaka is worth more than that package obviously.

Plays same position as millsap

Post #4 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 8:15 pm

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:still don't see why Atlanta cuts the Raptors in. Ibaka is worth more than that package obviously.

Plays same position as millsap

That's not a good reason to dump that much value. Ibaka can play some 5 and Millsap can play some 3. A coach like Bud could almost certainly figure it out. And if he couldn't he could flip Ibaka this summer for something better than that Knicks/Nuggets pick.

Post #5 » by **bondom34** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 8:16 pm

Yeah same problem as the other thread, it should be a 2 team deal and makes more sense that way really.

RussetPotato · Post #6 » by **RussetPotato** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 9:30 pm

what is Ibaka's value? i'm not sure how to value him right now...

Blkbrd671 · Post #7 » by **Blkbrd671** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 11:09 pm

RussetPotato wrote:what is Ibaka's value? i'm not sure how to value him right now...

Serge Ibaka

Guys getting paid 12+million over this and next season he's currently averaging

32.7 mpg
49% FG shooting
38% 3fg shooting(better than love 8-)

)
6.8 Rpg
2.2blks

12.7 ppg

1.9OWS
1.9DWS

He's basically a rental, so it'll depend on what you think your teams chances are of resigning him. Also idk if OKC would let him go, KD and RW may leave and Ibaka would be their next best player. I am pretty sure he's better than his stats say but i'd be weary of trading for him to make him a main option.

Post #8 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 11:16 pm

Blkbrd671 wrote:
RussetPotato wrote:what is Ibaka's value? i'm not sure how to value him right now...

Serge Ibaka

Guys getting paid 12+million over this and next season he's currently averaging

32.7 mpg
49% FG shooting
38% 3fg shooting(better than love )
6.8 Rpg
2.2blks
12.7 ppg

1.9OWS
1.9DWS

He's basically a rental, so it'll depend on what you think your teams chances are of resigning him. Also idk if OKC would let him go, KD and RW may leave and Ibaka would be their next best player. I am pretty sure he's better than his stats say but i'd be weary of trading for him to make him a main option.

He's better than his stats—playing further away from the basket, and between Adams/Kanter/Westbrook/Durant we have a lot of guys hoovering up rebounds. Plus he doesn't seem to fit with Donovan as comfortably as he did with Brooks (basketballwise. I think the locker room is fine).

But he's basically the best PF rim protector in the league, and he's a good 3pt shooter. He's not a high offensive IQ guy, but he's an excellent safety valve. He's best as a third option on offense and a central cog of a defense.

Blkbrd671 · Post #9 » by **Blkbrd671** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 11:50 pm

dbrandon wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:
RussetPotato wrote:what is Ibaka's value? i'm not sure how to value him right now...

Serge Ibaka

Guys getting paid 12+million over this and next season he's currently averaging

32.7 mpg
49% FG shooting
38% 3fg shooting(better than love )
6.8 Rpg
2.2blks
12.7 ppg

1.9OWS
1.9DWS

He's basically a rental, so it'll depend on what you think your teams chances are of resigning him. Also idk if OKC would let him go, KD and RW may leave and Ibaka would be their next best player. I am pretty sure he's better than his stats say but i'd be weary of trading for him to make him a main option.

He's better than his stats—playing further away from the basket, and between Adams/Kanter/Westbrook/Durant we have a lot of guys hoovering up rebounds. Plus he doesn't seem to fit with Donovan as comfortably as he did with Brooks (basketballwise. I think the locker room is fine).

But he's basically the best PF rim protector in the league, and he's a good 3pt shooter. He's not a high offensive IQ guy, but he's an excellent safety valve. He's best as a third option on offense and a central cog of a defense.

so what do you give up for a player that is essentially a glue piece on a short term contract? i think its one of those where teams won't give enough value for okc to consider letting him walk.

Post #10 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 11:53 pm

Blkbrd671 wrote:...getting paid 12+million over this and next season...

...He's basically a rental

Strongly disagree with the idea that guys signed for 1.5 years are 'rentals'.

Rapsfan07 · Post #11 » by **Rapsfan07** » Tue Feb 9, 2016 11:58 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:...getting paid 12+million over this and next season...

...He's basically a rental

Strongly disagree with the idea that guys signed for 1.5 years are 'rentals'.

It is a rental though. He'd finish the season in Toronto and then enter the last year of his deal. That's pretty much a rental

Post #12 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:00 am

Rapsfan07 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:...getting paid 12+million over this and next season...

...He's basically a rental

Strongly disagree with the idea that guys signed for 1.5 years are 'rentals'.

It is a rental though. He'd finish the season in Toronto and then enter the last year of his deal. That's pretty much a rental

No it isnt. Under this CBA 3 years is a long-term deal. Getting a player for 2 playoff runs is extremely valuable. Like really really valuable for a player of Ibaka's impact.

Post #13 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:02 am

Rapsfan07 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:...getting paid 12+million over this and next season...

...He's basically a rental

Strongly disagree with the idea that guys signed for 1.5 years are 'rentals'.

It is a rental though. He'd finish the season in Toronto and then enter the last year of his deal. That's pretty much a rental

No. A rental is a guy you get for the end of that season. If you have a guy for 2 playoff runs, its not a rental, especially when you can only sign guys not on your team for at most 4.

Would you consider Lowry being traded to somewhere else a rental?

Bo3ayed · Post #14 » by **Bo3ayed** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:08 am

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jtusnvl
Thoughts on this ?

Blkbrd671 · Post #15 » by **Blkbrd671** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:51 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Strongly disagree with the idea that guys signed for 1.5 years are 'rentals'.

It is a rental though. He'd finish the season in Toronto and then enter the last year of his deal. That's pretty much a rental

No it isnt. Under this CBA 3 years is a long-term deal. Getting a player for 2 playoff runs is extremely valuable. Like really really valuable for a player of Ibaka's impact.

you guys are assuming that trading for Ibaka = instant playoffs except for the fact that your going to have to deplete your assets to get a player of Ibaka's caliber.

If you want to define "rental" as 1 season, then by all means feel free too. If i am giving up valuable assets for a player that may leave after next season, that is what i and others would define as a rental. Fact is either way you define it, its still 1.5 seasons, which is not a lot.

Blkbrd671 · Post #16 » by **Blkbrd671** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:52 am

Rapsfan07 wrote:
It is a rental though. He'd finish the season in Toronto and then enter the last year of his deal. That's pretty much a rental

agreed, 1.5 season is barely enough time for any player to get acclimated to a new team/system. Its a matter of opinion discussion , so there isn't a right or wrong answer

Post #17 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:56 am

I mean if you want to take the commonly held definition of "rental" in this context as meaning a player you trade for at or around the deadline--and completely re-define it you can. But understand the majority of people are not going to join you in this mission. It's better if we don't attempt to re-define these terms so that we don't talk past each other or bog down threads like this.

Teams trade for players entering the last year of their deal every summer and sign lots of players to one year deals. No one refers to these deals as "rentals".

And yes I think if Toronto specifically trades for Ibaka I can safely call it 2 playoff runs. If it was a team like say Portland I would call it 2 stretch runs. If it was a team like say the Lakers I would call it an investment in next year.

But in the context of the thread--yeah its 2 playoff runs. No that is not widely considered a rental, and yes its very valuable.

RonaldArtest · Post #18 » by **RonaldArtest** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:02 am

As a Toronto fan, I can't sign up for this deal fast enough. Ibaka is the absolute best fit in the league for what the raptors need at the 4 spot.

Post #19 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:20 am

Texas Chuck wrote:I mean if you want to take the commonly held definition of "rental" in this context as meaning a player you trade for at or around the deadline--and completely re-define it you can. But understand the majority of people are not going to join you in this mission. It's better if we don't attempt to re-define these terms so that we don't talk past each other or bog down threads like this.

Teams trade for players entering the last year of their deal every summer and sign lots of players to one year deals. No one refers to these deals as "rentals".

And yes I think if Toronto specifically trades for Ibaka I can safely call it 2 playoff runs. If it was a team like say Portland I would call it 2 stretch runs. If it was a team like say the Lakers I would call it an investment in next year.

But in the context of the thread--yeah its 2 playoff runs. No that is not widely considered a rental, and yes its very valuable.

Yeah, and just to be clear, I'm all for some franchises saying 1.5 years is too short of a time. I think 1.5 years is too short for Philly to trade for someone like Teague, but thats not to say its a rental. But there definitely are teams that are getting 0 playoff runs in 1.5 years, and in that sense its not time that matters.

However, if a guy matches your window, 1.5 years is kinda the best you get usually. Anyone with a longer contract just got signed somewhere else and thus isn't likely to be available at all.

I mean, Parsons, signed a 2+1PO which effectively made him a rental to Dallas as a free agent otherwise with only 2 playoff runs.

Post #20 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:23 am

Yeah agree with HW and Chuck here, rental is usually a guy who is exp traded in season. Not someone traded mid season with another year left. That's simply not how the term is commonly used. You may not think it's worth trading for him for that amount of time, but he's not a rental.