Hornets/Knicks

[HornetsFan29]

Hornets Get: Robin Lopez

Knicks Get:Spencer Hawes & Cody Zeller plus Charlote's 2016 1st Round Pick.

Reason For Hornets: Upgrade the Center Spot which they need.

Reason For Knicks: Gets a good young Big in Zeller plus a 1st round pick which helps them aswell.

what you all think? like it or not?

[jbk1234]

The pick and Zeller seems like an overpay.

[Rockazoids]

The pick and Zeller seems like an overpay.

The Knicks shouldn't do it because...

Because teams care about 3 things -
1. Guys that can create shots for themselves and others
2. Guys that can shoot 3s
3. Guys that can defend

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

Because bad defender's stigma in today's NBA is pretty big. and very few teams have success with their main scorer being bigs, it's just usually not efficient enough on that end anyway especially if he uses a lot of possession on terms of iso / post ups.

but you say it's a overpay. Typical for most Knicks trades.Player 1 has no value unless if for a Knicks player.

[BullyKing]

The pick and Zeller seems like an overpay.

The Knicks shouldn't do it because...

Because teams care about 3 things -
1. Guys that can create shots for themselves and others
2. Guys that can shoot 3s
3. Guys that can defend

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

Because bad defender's stigma in today's NBA is pretty big. and very few teams have success with their main scorer being bigs, it's just usually not efficient enough on that end anyway especially if he uses a lot of possession on terms of iso / post ups.

but you say it's a overpay. Typical for most Knicks trades.Player 1 has no value unless if for a Knicks player.

I agree with you that there's no point to this trade for the Knicks without the assets. That said, it's truly amazing how all NBA fanbases are biased against every single team, right? I mean, c'mon with this bias against the Knicks stuff.

[Texas Chuck]

I get you are angry people don't value RoLo as much as you, but you might not have to keep spamming every thread with this.

And the persecution complex really doesn't further meaningful discussion regardless of the fanbase.

[Knickfan1982]

The pick and Zeller seems like an overpay.

Doesn't Charlotte pick 22nd. That really doesn't seem like an overpay to me. Especially when we'd only have a years control over Zeller.

[Juggynaut]

Lopez is underrated, him and KP were the best PF/C combo at protecting the rim in the NBA last season. That being said I would totally do the trade, but I'm all in on tanking.

[Rockazoids]

I get you are angry people don't value RoLo as much as you, but you might not have to keep spamming every thread with this.

And the persecution complex really doesn't further meaningful discussion regardless of the fanbase.

No one is spamming TC but I find it kind of funny,so I'll leave it alone.

[Texas Chuck]

but I find it kind of funny,so I'll leave it alone.

Excellent. I appreciate it.


And look I agree RoLo is a good player. I wish he had still been available after Jordan changed his mind for the Mavs. He's a good solid big man. It's just he doesn't have a ton of trade value imo.

[taikibansei]

The pick and Zeller seems like an overpay.

The Knicks shouldn't do it because...

Because teams care about 3 things -
1. Guys that can create shots for themselves and others
2. Guys that can shoot 3s
3. Guys that can defend

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

Because bad defender's stigma in today's NBA is pretty big. and very few teams have success with their main scorer being bigs, it's just usually not efficient enough on that end anyway especially if he uses a lot of possession on terms of iso / post ups.

but you say it's a overpay. Typical for most Knicks trades.Player 1 has no value unless if for a Knicks player.

Amen. Wish I could give this more than one "and 1."

[R-DAWG]

but I find it kind of funny,so I'll leave it alone.

Excellent. I appreciate it.


And look I agree RoLo is a good player. I wish he had still been available after Jordan changed his mind for the Mavs. He's a good solid big man. It's just he doesn't have a ton of trade value imo.

But Chcuk, don't you agree that he can be flipped to a team, like Detroit (your idea, and a good one, from the other day) for pick #18, especially considering DET was willing to move that pick for Montejunas.

I'm a Knicks fan and I think 18 and 22 is an overpay for Lopez. BUT, I'll take it!!!!

[taikibansei]

I get you are angry people don't value RoLo as much as you, but you might not have to keep spamming every thread with this.

And the persecution complex really doesn't further meaningful discussion regardless of the fanbase.

Understood. That said, the offer represents (as even the OP acknowledges!) a downgrade at center (Zody's marginally better offense does not make up for his significantly worse defense), plus a throw-in bench big (when the Knicks have two), plus a late first round pick (in a 2-player draft)--all to meet a "need" (Knicks desperately need talent at both guard positions, not new bigs) that doesn't exist.

Is it too much to ask that trade ideas at least consider the needs of the other teams?

[R-DAWG]

Lopez is underrated, him and KP were the best PF/C combo at protecting the rim in the NBA last season. That being said I would totally do the trade, but I'm all in on tanking.

But Lopez trade value will likely be higher once free agency sets, we know for sure how much below market, if at all, his contract is, and who misses out on the rim protectors this summer.

[Texas Chuck]

Is it too much to ask that trade ideas at least consider the needs of the other teams?

No that's not too much to ask. In fact it's board policy.

However, we have lots of posters on this board. And just because they have a different idea of what makes sense for your team than you do, doesn't mean they didn't consider your needs. They just have a different perception which is okay.

There is absolutely nothing insulting to the Knicks about the trade in the OP. That doesn't mean you or anyone else has to like it. But it's not remotely out of line.

[RollingWave]

I don't really see the point for the Knicks, they don't really lack individual scorers. and on a vacuum as we've noted in other threads it's easier to build around a defensive first bigs than an offensive one. unless that offense is transcendent which Vuc is not.

[Golabki]

I get you are angry people don't value RoLo as much as you, but you might not have to keep spamming every thread with this.

And the persecution complex really doesn't further meaningful discussion regardless of the fanbase.

Understood. That said, the offer represents (as even the OP acknowledges!) a downgrade at center (Zody's marginally better offense does not make up for his significantly worse defense), plus a throw-in bench big (when the Knicks have two), plus a late first round pick (in a 2-player draft)--all to meet a "need" (Knicks desperately need talent at both guard positions, not new bigs) that doesn't exist.

Is it too much to ask that trade ideas at least consider the needs of the other teams?

I'm not convinced RoLo is better than Zeller and I'd take Zeller over RoLo in a straight up trade given his age.

There's no way I'd give a good young player on a rookie deal + a 1st for RoLo.

[Coeur]

Hawes, lamb, 22
For
lopez

[taikibansei]

I get you are angry people don't value RoLo as much as you, but you might not have to keep spamming every thread with this.

And the persecution complex really doesn't further meaningful discussion regardless of the fanbase.

Understood. That said, the offer represents (as even the OP acknowledges!) a downgrade at center (Zody's marginally better offense does not make up for his significantly worse defense), plus a throw-in bench big (when the Knicks have two), plus a late first round pick (in a 2-player draft)--all to meet a "need" (Knicks desperately need talent at both guard positions, not new bigs) that doesn't exist.

Is it too much to ask that trade ideas at least consider the needs of the other teams?

I'm not convinced RoLo is better than Zeller and I'd take Zeller over RoLo in a straight up trade given his age.

There's no way I'd give a good young player on a rookie deal + a 1st for RoLo.

RoLo is 28 and on a reasonable contract (14 million/year until 2019). Zeller is 23 and entering the last year of his rookie contract. I.e., neither is particularly young nor old, and their salaries will soon be very similar.

RoLo is also better than Zeller in just about every rateable category:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=lopezro01&p2=zelleco01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

And while it's close, those stats don't take into account the fact that Zeller fills NONE of the Knicks' needs. None. The Knicks have two bigs who can supply plenty of offense--Porzingis and Melo (the latter can play both small and power forward). Lopez also does all the dirty work (blocking out, nasty screens, fighting hard for contested rebounds, etc.) that Melo and Porzingis won't/can't. Finally, the Knicks have two back-up center/forwards (Quinn and Seraphin) as well. Why trade Lopez to fill a need that doesn't exist, and especially for a guy who doesn't bring them anything they don't already have?

Again, if Lopez is traded, it will most likely be for a guard. Afflalo/Calderon made for one the oldest and worst-performing starting guard tandems in the NBA last season. As Lopez is one of the few tradeable assets for the Knicks, any trade needs to be part of the solution to the guard problem.

[yosemiteben]

RoLo is also better than Zeller in just about every rateable category:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=lopezro01&p2=zelleco01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

You're using career stats to compare a third year player to a guy who just finished his 8th season? The fact that their stats are at all comparable isn't exactly great for RoLo. Compare them at the same age and it's night and day, and not in your guy's favor.

[taikibansei]

RoLo is also better than Zeller in just about every rateable category:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=lopezro01&p2=zelleco01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

You're using career stats to compare a third year player to a guy who just finished his 8th year? The fact that their stats are at all comparable isn't exactly great for RoLo. Compare them at the same age and it's night and day, and not in your guy's favor.

RoLo was a bench player for four of his first eight years averaging just 15 minutes a game...and yet still has put up better career averages than Zeller. Hate to say it, but that's not in your guy's favor.

More to the point, you keep avoiding an answer to my question: What need does a Lopez for Zeller trade fill?

Again, the OP, while acknowledging the downgrade at center, suggests the Knicks would get "younger" through this trade--that was the only given rationale. However, again, the Knicks don't need "younger," less-skilled bigs. They need (much) better guards.