Kings/Jazz post-July 1st

Post #1 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:19 pm

Trey Burke
Better of 2017 UTH/DET 2nd

for

Kostas Koufos

Kings get a backup PG, clear up some more cap space and pick up a pick in the 40's next year.

Jazz clear out a little of the PG jam with the guy they seem most interested in moving and solidify their front-court depth a little.

rpa · Post #2 » by **rpa** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:29 pm

Don't the Kings already have too many backups? Collison is a backup (assuming he isn't in the pokey) and Seth Curry could be considered one as well. The Kings also seemed to really like their late 2nd rounder (Cousins) as a backup PG as well.

Post #3 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:32 pm

rpa wrote:Don't the Kings already have too many backups? Collison is a backup (assuming he isn't in the pokey) and Seth Curry could be considered one as well. The Kings also seemed to really like their late 2nd rounder (Cousins) as a backup PG as well.

Maybe I get thrown off since Dallas always keeps a bunch of PG's :-?

But yeah I guess if the Kings can land a starter and keep Seth and Collison is able to play then he's extraneous. But that feels like maybe enough if's?

But I guess the deal could just be Koufos for a 2nd and without Burke in the deal the Jazz could throw in the Knicks 2nd as well?

Woody Allen · Post #4 » by **Woody Allen** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:36 pm

rpa wrote:Don't the Kings already have too many backups? Collison is a backup (assuming he isn't in the pokey) and Seth Curry could be considered one as well. The Kings also seemed to really like their late 2nd rounder (Cousins) as a backup PG as well.

Seth Curry is a free agent and if I were the Kings I wouldn't necessarily try to re-sign him.

LightTheBeam · Post #5 » by **LightTheBeam** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:36 pm

Yea agreed value is great, but assuming we go out and sign a starting pg and Collison doesn't get locked up (still need to see) we would be left with

Rondo? Collison/Burke/Curry/Cousins - all as point guards. I think we need some more backup wing depth more than pg depth. We need a starting pg. Now if Collison spends a year in Jail which basically means he will be cut, then I could see this making more sense since Cousins has some size and may not even make the team and Burke/Curry can spend some time at 2 if necessary.

Just curious would this trade still work if Burke was removed?

rpa · Post #6 » by **rpa** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:40 pm

Woody Allen wrote:Seth Curry is a free agent and if I were the Kings I wouldn't necessarily try to re-sign him.

He's an RFA which is why I'm including him. Also, given their dearth of shooting and defense he seems like he'd be a good resign (assuming someone doesn't blow their wad on him after missing out on other FAs).

Post #7 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:43 pm

It's not bad honestly. The thing is I don't know if we can justify adding Koufos salary. He'd be a luxury item as a 4th big, and I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over our current 4th big, Jeff Withey. Maybe I should try to compare Withey and Koufos? (all stats per36 via basketball reference.com)

Withey
------------------
26 yo
7ft
231lbs
ppg - 11.9
rpg - 9.5
apg - 1.1
spg - 1.1
bpg - 2.9
PER - 17.7
ORtg - 115
Drtg - 99
WS/48 - .171
Vorp - .6

Koufos
---------------------
27yo
7ft
265lbs
PPG- 12.9
RPG - 10.3
APG - .8
SPG - 1.0
BPG - 1.7
PER - 15.1
ORtg - 113
Drtg - 107
WS/48 - .113
Vorp - .3

Looking at the stats I just think Koufos would be far too much of a luxury add and hinder the Jazz resigning our own guys down the road. I think I'd have to decline, especially with the Jazz being the ones adding extra value.

rpa · Post #8 » by **rpa** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:44 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Maybe I get thrown off since Dallas always keeps a bunch of PG's But yeah I guess if the Kings can land a starter and keep Seth and Collison is able to play then he's extraneous. But that feels like maybe enough if's?

But I guess the deal could just be Koufos for a 2nd and without Burke in the deal the Jazz could throw in the Knicks 2nd as well?

I actually think the Kings might be able to score a late 2017 1st for Koufos if they wait until the end of this FA period (too much demand and too little supply) when teams are standing their holding nothing but their dicks in their hands--especially when you consider the team friendly contract he has.

Woody Allen · Post #9 » by **Woody Allen** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:49 pm

rpa wrote:
Woody Allen wrote:Seth Curry is a free agent and if I were the Kings I wouldn't necessarily try to re-sign him.

He's an RFA which is why I'm including him. Also, given their dearth of shooting and defense he seems like he'd be a good resign (assuming someone doesn't blow their wad on him after missing out on other FAs).

I am off on Curry because his garbage time play during the end of the regular season was just too over the top. It seemed like he just wanted to put on a show just to find a team next season to overpay him.

Post #10 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:49 pm

rpa wrote:I actually think the Kings might be able to score a late 2017 1st for Koufos if they wait until the end of this FA period (too much demand and too little supply)

IDK--the one thing that is in supply in free agency this summer is the center pool. I agree his contract potentially makes him more attractive, but I don't think there are enough teams with needs for all of the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get outrageous contracts.

And I'm not sure that any team sees Koufos as a starter?

Post #11 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:53 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:It's not bad honestly. The thing is I don't know if we can justify adding Koufos salary. He'd be a luxury item as a 4th big, and I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over our current 4th big, Jeff Withey. Maybe I should try to compare Withey and Koufos? (all stats per36 via basketball reference.com)

Withey
------------------
26 yo
7ft
231lbs
ppg - 11.9
rpg - 9.5
apg - 1.1
spg - 1.1
bpg - 2.9
PER - 17.7
ORtg - 115
Drtg - 99
WS/48 - .171
Vorp - .6

Koufos
---------------------
27yo
7ft
265lbs
ppg - 6.8
rpg - 5.4
apg - 0.4
spg - 0.5
bpg - 1.7
PER - 15.1
ORtg - 113
Drtg - 107
WS/48 - .113
Vorp - .3

Looking at the stats I just think Koufos would be far too much of a luxury add and hinder the Jazz resigning our own guys down the road. I think I'd have to decline, especially with the Jazz being the ones adding extra value.

Koufos played almost as many minutes last year as Withey has in his career, and Withey only got many of the minutes he did due to injuries and garbage time. He might well be able to handle the job, but Koufos is a much more proven option at this point and all signs point to the Jazz wanting to really make a playoff push this year. I'd be scared to death to have Lyles/Withey as my primary backup bigs. I don't think that's enough. Obviously doesn't have to be Koufos, but they need another big and I don't think Booker is that guy either.

rpa · Post #12 » by **rpa** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:IDK--the one thing that is in supply in free agency this summer is the center pool. I agree his contract potentially makes him more attractive, but I don't think there are enough teams with needs for all of the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get outrageous contracts.

Supply is still going to be far higher than demand due to the rising cap, though.

Texas Chuck wrote:And I'm not sure that any team sees Koufos as a starter?

I don't think he is either, but if you're a team drafting in the late 20s with a bench big hole it's conceivable (not likely, just possible) that you value Koufos and his contract over that late pick next year.

LightTheBeam · Post #13 » by **LightTheBeam** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:It's not bad honestly. The thing is I don't know if we can justify adding Koufos salary. He'd be a luxury item as a 4th big, and I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over our current 4th big, Jeff Withey. Maybe I should try to compare Withey and Koufos? (all stats per36 via basketball reference.com)

Withey
------------------
26 yo
7ft
231lbs
ppg - 11.9
rpg - 9.5
apg - 1.1
spg - 1.1
bpg - 2.9
PER - 17.7
ORtg - 115
Drtg - 99
WS/48 - .171
Vorp - .6

Koufos
---------------------
27yo
7ft
265lbs
ppg - 6.8
rpg - 5.4
apg - 0.4
spg - 0.5
bpg - 1.7
PER - 15.1
ORtg - 113
Drtg - 107
WS/48 - .113
Vorp - .3

Looking at the stats I just think Koufos would be far too much of a luxury add and hinder the Jazz resigning our own guys down the road. I think I'd have to decline, especially with the Jazz being the ones adding extra value.

Looks to me like you used Whitey per 36 and Koufos regular numbers.

Koufos Per 36

PPG- 12.9
RPG - 10.3
APG - .8
SPG - 1.0
BPG - 1.7

Post #14 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:55 pm

hah, what a boner.

I'll fix it.

Post #15 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:01 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jazzfan1971 wrote:It's not bad honestly. The thing is I don't know if we can justify adding Koufos salary. He'd be a luxury item as a 4th big, and I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over our current 4th big, Jeff Withey. Maybe I should try to compare Withey and Koufos? (all stats per36 via basketball reference.com)

Withey
------------------
26 yo
7ft
231lbs
ppg - 11.9
rpg - 9.5
apg - 1.1
spg - 1.1
bpg - 2.9
PER - 17.7
ORtg - 115
Drtg - 99
WS/48 - .171
Vorp - .6

Koufos
---------------------
27yo
7ft
265lbs
ppg - 6.8
rpg - 5.4
apg - 0.4
spg - 0.5
bpg - 1.7
PER - 15.1
ORtg - 113
Drtg - 107
WS/48 - .113
Vorp - .3

Looking at the stats I just think Koufos would be far too much of a luxury add and hinder the Jazz resigning our own guys down the road. I think I'd have to decline, especially with the Jazz being the ones adding extra value.

Koufos played almost as many minutes last year as Withey has in his career, and Withey only got many of the minutes he did due to injuries and garbage time. He might well be able to handle the job, but Koufos is a much more proven option at this point and all signs point to the Jazz wanting to really make a playoff push this year. I'd be scared to death to have Lyles/Withey as my primary backup bigs. I don't think that's enough. Obviously doesn't have to be Koufos, but they need another big and I don't think Booker is that guy either.

I'm extremely confident in Lyles, and Withey really impressed me when he was forced into playing due to injuries. I don't have any reservations moving forward with either. Jazz could use a 5th big. Not sure we'll bring back Booker. But, I think Jazz will prefer to keep contracts to 2 years so as to not interfere with resigning Hayward/Favors/Gobert/Exum. I just don't think Koufos is good enough or enough of an upgrade to justify the cost, at least for the Jazz. I honestly don't mind giving Bolomboy a shot at the 5th big spot. He's cheap and by my eye looks very interesting.

I understand if you don't have the faith in those guys that I do.

Here are Jeff Withey's stats as a starting center
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/2333797/jeff-withey
Compare with Koufos's stats as a starting center
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3444/kosta-koufos

They are fairly close even with Koufos getting more minutes.

Post #16 » by **City of Trees** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:06 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jazzfan1971 wrote:It's not bad honestly. The thing is I don't know if we can justify adding Koufos salary. He'd be a luxury item as a 4th big, and I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over our current 4th big, Jeff Withey. Maybe I should try to compare Withey and Koufos? (all stats per36 via basketball reference.com)

Withey
------------------
26 yo
7ft
231lbs
ppg - 11.9
rpg - 9.5
apg - 1.1
spg - 1.1
bpg - 2.9
PER - 17.7
ORtg - 115
Drtg - 99
WS/48 - .171
Vorp - .6

Koufos
---------------------
27yo
7ft
265lbs
ppg - 6.8
rpg - 5.4
apg - 0.4
spg - 0.5
bpg - 1.7
PER - 15.1
ORtg - 113
Drtg - 107
WS/48 - .113
Vorp - .3

Looking at the stats I just think Koufos would be far too much of a luxury add and hinder the Jazz resigning our own guys down the road. I think I'd have to decline, especially with the Jazz being the ones adding extra value.

Koufos played almost as many minutes last year as Withey has in his career, and Withey only got many of the minutes he did due to injuries and garbage time. He might well be able to handle the job, but Koufos is a much more proven option at this point and all signs point to the Jazz wanting to really make a playoff push this year. I'd be scared to death to have Lyles/Withey as my primary backup bigs. I don't think that's enough. Obviously doesn't have to be Koufos, but they need another big and I don't think Booker is that guy either.

Great points here. You sell me for the Jazz.

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Woody Allen · Post #17 » by **Woody Allen** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:06 pm

Koufos is pretty decent and I think his contract is good as well. Haven't watched Whitney so can't comment but Koufos would complement Gobert well.

stitches · Post #18 » by **stitches** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:28 pm

I'd be very hesitant tying myself to contracts past 2018, when we will need the money to sign our own players. In other words - I wouldn't want Koufos to cost us losing Hood/Exum.

Golabki · Post #19 » by **Golabki** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:39 pm

If I'm the Jazz I want Favors paying as much 2nd unit center as I can get, which means he's really the main backup to Gobert, which means they don't need a big minute back up center, which means Whitney is more than good enough, which means they don't need Kofous.

LightTheBeam · Post #20 » by **LightTheBeam** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:59 pm

stitches wrote:I'd be very hesitant tying myself to contracts past 2018, when we will need the money to sign our own players. In other words - I wouldn't want Koufos to cost us losing Hood/Exum.

I can't imagine Koufos at 8mil per year ends up costing you any long term players. I also imagine that in a year or two with the cap continuing to rise, Koufos will only get easier to move. For a team like Utah looking to make the playoffs and directly competing with the Kings I would likely attempt to trade him to an Eastern Conference team like the Pacers first.

Another trade I really like is Koufos and McLemore for Matthews I would be very pleased about that.