Sixers-Celtics...not what you think.

[kriss73]

Well...no Noel, no Okafor, no pick.

The Sixers have 4 center signed (noel,okafor,embiid and Holmes) as today and the the Celtics have 4 PG (IT, Smart, Rozier and Jackson).
Maybe a little deal to balance the roster is possible.
The idea is to swap Holmes with Rozier: the two guys have the same age and the same contract lenght.
Holmes has shown flashes to become a rotational 2-ways big man and Rozier some potential during the Summer League.
Nothing earth-shattering, but it can help both teams.

Thoughts?

[Texas Chuck]

I think Rozier has more value than Holmes and Boston doesn't consider this at all as is.

[Homerclease]

Rozier is going to turn a lot of heads this season, he's criminally underrated on these boards. With that said I do like Holmes and would be willing to part with Hunter or Demitrius Jackson for him but Rozier to me has far more value than this

[Chuck-Cheese]

Celts would need more coming back. They don't make that trade.

[kriss73]

I don't know how Rozier could turn heads this year because he seems to be buried besides IT and Smart, but I understand if the Celtics are high on him.
Regarding Hunter, he is currently fighting for a roster spot so...and Jackson was on board on draft night and the Sixers passed.

[Homerclease]

I don't know how Rozier could turn heads this year because he seems to be buried besides IT and Smart, but I understand if the Celtics are high on him.
Regarding Hunter, he is currently fighting for a roster spot so...and Jackson was on board on draft night and the Sixers passed.

He's not buried behind smart, Hunter is fighting for a roster spot because he's the 5th guard on the squad and Jackson showed well for himself in the summer league so take it for what it is. I'd be willing to part with lesser assets for Holmes but not Rozier, Hunter and Jackson were just the first names that came to mind. I'm sure the Celtics would be happy to throw in James Young to any package though!

[HartfordWhalers]

I think Rozier has more value than Holmes and Boston doesn't consider this at all as is.

Rozier was mocked by dx only 3 spots away from Holmes (30 versus 33) and on their ranking of how they saw the prospects, was ranked considerably lower (47th versus 34th).

As a general rule, I don't like ascribing league value to a guy as equal to where he got picked when where he got picked was ~15 spots above what most expected. In terms of play since the draft, Rozier has had a lot less production than Holmes so far.

Now, all that might not matter to Ainge who valued Rozier different than most people a year ago. But if you are talking general league wide value, I don't see the case for Rozier over Holmes at all.

[Homerclease]

I think Rozier has more value than Holmes and Boston doesn't consider this at all as is.

Rozier was mocked by dx only 3 spots away from Holmes (30 versus 33) and on their ranking of how they saw the prospects, was ranked considerably lower (47th versus 34th).

As a general rule, I don't like ascribing league value to a guy as equal to where he got picked when where he got picked was ~15 spots above what most expected. In terms of play since the draft, Rozier has had a lot less production than Holmes so far.

Now, all that might not matter to Ainge who valued Rozier different than most people a year ago. But if you are talking general league wide value, I don't see the case for Rozier over Holmes at all.

Rozier played quality playoff minutes for the Celtics last season against the Hawks, Holmes is the 5th big on the sixers. I don't see what their draft position or where they were mocked has any bearing whatsoever on their current value.

[kriss73]

My same idea.
I understand if you like a player more than another or if you see more potential, but in terms of absolute value I can't see the gap.

By the way: I forgot that in every potential trades with the Celtics, James Young is always the player that cover any spread

[cl2117]

Yeah Rozier has a good bit more value than Holmes. He was the Celtics best summer league player by a decent margin, he played his way into he playoff rotation last year and, although it was a reach, Ainge spent a mid-first on him to make sure no other team reached for him so to think he will turn around and trade him for a big who hasn't showed much more than Rozier and who he wasn't high enough on to reach for doesn't make a ton of sense.

I think Rozier is a little hindered by Smart and IT, but I expect Smart to serve as a combo guard playing everything from 1-3, which would open up plenty minutes for Rozier to see the court.

I think Young and Jackson make more sense. The value isn't tipped in Phillys favor but this is a roster re-org move as I don't see Holmes being a big part for the Sixers even if they clear out one of the bigs that are being shopped. Young is about to be waived, but Philly can afford the price tag and let him go it and try to shoot himself to being worthy of the roster spot and Jackson while not being a great prospect has shown some ability both in college and summer leave and Philly could use another point even if he's a meh prospect. Understandable if they decide just to roll with Holmes though in case they end up moving Okafor or Noel.

Also with respect to Hunter, since his name was brought up, I may be a little higher on him than others but I think he's got really good potential as a future 3&D wing in the mold of Jared Dudley. He hit wide open/non-contested 3's at a higher percentage than Steph Curry (small sample size caveat of course, but it's the encouraging). His issue is being able to do it with a hand in his face, but his shot is smooth as hell so I think he can get better in that regard. The other thing is that his athleticism leaves something to be desired, which may hinder his ability to have the D necessary to be a 3&D wing but I think he has a good BB-IQ to make up for that as he develops.

I know he is reportedly fighting for a roster spot but I would be really disappointed if they gave up on him already. Stevens sent him out there at times last year when the offense stumbled hoping his shooting could spark them and I'd like to see him get the same opportunities this season with a year under his belt.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think Rozier has more value than Holmes and Boston doesn't consider this at all as is.

Rozier was mocked by dx only 3 spots away from Holmes (30 versus 33) and on their ranking of how they saw the prospects, was ranked considerably lower (47th versus 34th).

As a general rule, I don't like ascribing league value to a guy as equal to where he got picked when where he got picked was ~15 spots above what most expected. In terms of play since the draft, Rozier has had a lot less production than Holmes so far.

Now, all that might not matter to Ainge who valued Rozier different than most people a year ago. But if you are talking general league wide value, I don't see the case for Rozier over Holmes at all.

Rozier played quality playoff minutes for the Celtics last season against the Hawks, Holmes is the 5th big on the sixers. I don't see what their draft position or where they were mocked has any bearing whatsoever on their current value.

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

[Homerclease]

Rozier was mocked by dx only 3 spots away from Holmes (30 versus 33) and on their ranking of how they saw the prospects, was ranked considerably lower (47th versus 34th).

As a general rule, I don't like ascribing league value to a guy as equal to where he got picked when where he got picked was ~15 spots above what most expected. In terms of play since the draft, Rozier has had a lot less production than Holmes so far.

Now, all that might not matter to Ainge who valued Rozier different than most people a year ago. But if you are talking general league wide value, I don't see the case for Rozier over Holmes at all.

Rozier played quality playoff minutes for the Celtics last season against the Hawks, Holmes is the 5th big on the sixers. I don't see what their draft position or where they were mocked has any bearing whatsoever on their current value.

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

Rozier played less minutes because he was on a better team with better players in front of him. When he got his chance in the postseason against the Hawks he showed his quality. I do like Holmes and think he's a legit NBA big man and of course that has value, but Rozier is a notch above from a value standpoint

[HartfordWhalers]

Rozier played quality playoff minutes for the Celtics last season against the Hawks, Holmes is the 5th big on the sixers. I don't see what their draft position or where they were mocked has any bearing whatsoever on their current value.

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

Rozier played less minutes because he was on a better team with better players in front of him. When he got his chance in the postseason against the Hawks he showed his quality. I do like Holmes and think he's a legit NBA big man and of course that has value, but Rozier is a notch above from a value standpoint

Rozier didn't have an assist in 3 of the 5 games he played in the playoffs, and was a negative +/- in 4 of them. Rozier's stats (see above and add whatever else you prefer) really weren't all that good in that series to justify viewing that 99 minutes as making him have a notch more value.

[Homerclease]

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

Rozier played less minutes because he was on a better team with better players in front of him. When he got his chance in the postseason against the Hawks he showed his quality. I do like Holmes and think he's a legit NBA big man and of course that has value, but Rozier is a notch above from a value standpoint

Rozier didn't have an assist in 3 of the 5 games he played in the playoffs, and was a negative +/- in 4 of them. Rozier's stats (see above and add whatever else you prefer) really weren't all that good in that series to justify viewing that 99 minutes as making him have a notch more value.

We can agree to disagree on this and revisit it at the trade deadline. You like your guy I like mine. The stats don't show how good Rozier was in that series for a guy who basically came in cold. Smitty can vouch for this as well that Rozier is very highly regarded in the Celtics organization and that other teams have expressed a lot of intrest in him.

[Foshan]

I really like Holmes. I think he's a great energy off the bench guy, and if we are trading for a pg, I'd rather move Noel for a starter than add another back up quality pg

[username_taken]

Eh, I'll pass. Would rather gamble on Rozier since he has come a long way since he looked completely lost at the beginning of his rookie year.

[Chuck-Cheese]

Rozier played quality playoff minutes for the Celtics last season against the Hawks, Holmes is the 5th big on the sixers. I don't see what their draft position or where they were mocked has any bearing whatsoever on their current value.

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

Rozier played less minutes because he was on a better team with better players in front of him. When he got his chance in the postseason against the Hawks he showed his quality. I do like Holmes and think he's a legit NBA big man and of course that has value, but Rozier is a notch above from a value standpoint

I think Homerclease would have got 700 minutes on that sixers team

[mikestar]

Rozier >Holmes

[Homerclease]

I feel like you must have been aware of the irony there in calling Holmes a 5th big, right? Please?

Rozier played 311 minutes and had a 27.4% fg% {5.0PER 32.6% TS%, -6.6 BPM
Holmes played 702 minutes and had a 51.4% fg% {15.9 PER 56.4% TS% -0.9 BPM}

Even if you add in the less than 100 minutes Rpzier played in the playoffs {39.1% fg% 9.6 Per 50.3% TS% -0.9 BPM } Rozier has shown a lot less in the NBA.

Rozier played less minutes because he was on a better team with better players in front of him. When he got his chance in the postseason against the Hawks he showed his quality. I do like Holmes and think he's a legit NBA big man and of course that has value, but Rozier is a notch above from a value standpoint

I think Homerclease would have got 700 minutes on that sixers team

Care to elaborate?

[bigmean]

I think something LONG THE LINES

Boston gets: Richaun Holmes
Nik Staukas
rights to Vasilije Micic
2020 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2020 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 12/11/2014]


Philly gets:
James Young
Jordan Mickey
Terry Rozier