KOTB: Phoenix-Dallas

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:26 pm

Phoenix In: Andrew Bogut, two second round draft picks (one conditional)
Phoenix Out: Tyson Chandler

Dallas In: Tyson Chandler
Dallas Out: Andrew Bogut, two second round draft picks (one conditional)

Why for Phoenix:

Alex Len will take over as the starting center - that much is all but inevitable. They don't need two starting centers (especially these days). There's good reason to think both Chandler and the Suns would welcome this move. The Suns don't have a need for Bogut and would probably just waive him.

Why for Dallas:

Bogut presents Dallas a quandary - he's helpful, but he's expiring, and he has an injury history. If he does well this year, will Dallas even want to extend him? Chandler revitalized his career once with Carlisle in Dallas, why not again? One-two seconds is a pretty small price to pay to lock in a solid center. The only thing I question is whether Cuban would just prefer the cap space.

Post #2 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:30 pm

Maybe I'm a Dallas homer, but I find it impossible to believe that Dallas should have to add incentive to swap Bogut for Chandler.

KOTB No.

Post #3 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:30 pm

I think Phx should be the ones attaching something. Chandler is on a longer contract and he's getting pretty old and age with a down season is kinda a sketchy situation. I'd do something like Goodwin and Chandler for Bogut or something if Dallas was really sold on bringing Chandler home.

jayjaysee · Post #4 » by **jayjaysee** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:57 pm

After the hostility in the Mil thread, and getting a couple of my ideas shut down by nothing but home-town bias.. I'm not going to vote.

But this feels really great for Phoenix. I have a feeling you don't understand just how good (or decent - or really-really good in stretches) Bogut is by the fact that you say Phoenix will just waive him.

That might be the issue in value.

LukasBMW · Post #5 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:00 am

Interesting.

From a Suns fans perspective, I'm all in. I'd even throw in Goodwin.

psman2 · Post #6 » by **psman2** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:39 am

Swap the 2nd round picks around going to Dallas and then maybe this would work.

KOTB: No

Post #7 » by **bondom34** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:02 am

Agreed, Phoenix would have to add, not Dallas. KOTB No.

Post #8 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:45 am

jayjaysee wrote:
But this feels really great for Phoenix. I have a feeling you don't understand just how good (or decent - or really-really good in stretches) Bogut is by the fact that you say Phoenix will just waive him.

It's really hard to value Bogut considering Dallas was just given a 2nd rounder as incentive for taking him. So that suggests his value was set as negative this summer. Now reports were that GSW worked to send Bogut where he wanted to go rather than hunting for the best deal, but clearly the market was far thinner for Bogut than I would have thought.

But Tyson has 3 8 figure years left as an aging player with injury history of his own. I actually think if health doesn't get him his level of play will be decent enough. But certainly if Bogut costs a 2nd to move, Chandler has to cost a first.

What's interesting is the last 3 years Dallas has pulled in an expiring center off the scrap heap. First we paid essentially nothing for Chandler, then paid literally nothing for Zaza, and finally got paid a little something to get Bogut. The first 2 worked out better than we could have expected. So here's hoping we go 3 for 3.

giberish · Post #9 » by **giberish** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:53 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Maybe I'm a Dallas homer, but I find it impossible to believe that Dallas should have to add incentive to swap Bogut for Chandler.

KOTB No.

Yeah, if Bogut goes down with a serious injury while Chandler's healthy, then a midseason Bogut + 2nd for Chandler deal would make sense. Right now Bogut provides similar on-court value and a better long-term contract situation.

Post #10 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:28 pm

Only reason the Suns would trade Chandler is if he requested it, and the Suns wouldn't add any incentive to dealing him. If the Mavericks were clambering on to a 6th-8th seed by mid-January and Bogut only plays half the games I could see Dallas being inclined to make a deal for a better quality center but this trade happening before the season starts would be highly unlikely.

Post #11 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:58 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:Phoenix In: Andrew Bogut, two second round draft picks (one conditional)
Phoenix Out: Tyson Chandler

Dallas In: Tyson Chandler
Dallas Out: Andrew Bogut, two second round draft picks (one conditional)

Why for Phoenix:

Alex Len will take over as the starting center - that much is all but inevitable. They don't need two starting centers (especially these days). There's good reason to think both Chandler and the Suns would welcome this move. The Suns don't have a need for Bogut and would probably just waive him.

Why for Dallas:

Bogut presents Dallas a quandary - he's helpful, but he's expiring, and he has an injury history. If he does well this year, will Dallas even want to extend him? Chandler revitalized his career once with Carlisle in Dallas, why not again? One-two seconds is a pretty small price to pay to lock in a solid center. The only thing I question is whether Cuban would just prefer the cap space.

Going forward, please post a link in the sticky KOTB thread when posting KOTB trades.

And thanks for entering, lets see some more ideas!

Golabki · Post #12 » by **Golabki** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:05 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Maybe I'm a Dallas homer, but I find it impossible to believe that Dallas should have to add incentive to swap Bogut for Chandler.

KOTB No.

I agree 100%.

NO

Darren · Post #13 » by **Darren** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:39 pm

No for Dallas unless Eledsoe is somewhat included. For example, Tyson Chandler, Eric Bledsoe, John Jenkins for Andrew Bogut and Wes Matthews. Devin Harris for Vince Carter.

C - Tyson Chandler / Salah Merji / AJ Hammons
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Dwight Powell / Quincy Acy
SF - Harrison Barnes / Justin Anderson / Vince Carter
SG - Eric Bledsoe / Jonathan Gibson / John Jenkins
PG - Deron Williams / Seth Curry / Jose Barea

hcsilla · Post #14 » by **hcsilla** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:49 pm

Darren wrote:No for Dallas unless Eledsoe is somewhat included. For example, Tyson Chandler, Eric Bledsoe, John Jenkins for Andrew Bogut and Wes Matthews.

Dallas have no assets for landing Bledsoe.

Mystical Apples · Post #15 » by **Mystical Apples** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:13 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Alex Len will take over as the starting center - that much is all but inevitable. They don't need two starting centers (especially these days). There's good reason to think both Chandler and the Suns would welcome this move. The Suns don't have a need for Bogut and would probably just waive him.

This simply doesn't add up. Just cause GSW cleared space for Durant doesn't mean Bogut is flotsam. He's the best of the 3 with passing skills to help balance the court for Suns guards. Bogut + Dudley + Tucker (before he's traded) is a significant front court upgrade over last season.

And I'd say Len's future is anything but certain, let alone starting caliber.

No for Dallas.

Post #16 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:43 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Alex Len will take over as the starting center - that much is all but inevitable. They don't need two starting centers (especially these days). There's good reason to think both Chandler and the Suns would welcome this move. The Suns don't have a need for Bogut and would probably just waive him.

This simply doesn't add up. Just cause GSW cleared space for Durant doesn't mean Bogut is flotsam. He's the best of the 3 with passing skills to help balance the court for Suns guards. Bogut + Dudley + Tucker (before he's traded) is a significant front court upgrade over last season.

And I'd say Len's future is anything but certain, let alone starting caliber.

No for Dallas.

It's not about upgrading really, it's about giving the young guys minutes to develop their game. Bogut/Dudley/Tucker may look better on paper than whatever the Suns had going last season but that would mean they are trying to compete, and with those guys starting it's still not going to win the Suns any games.
Len's future is pretty certain. You don't draft a guy at No 5, develop him for 4 years and then cut him unless it's for an upgrade that fits in with the direction of the franchise. Len will likely be starting by the end of the year (unless he's injured of course).

Mystical Apples · Post #17 » by **Mystical Apples** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:25 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Alex Len will take over as the starting center - that much is all but inevitable. They don't need two starting centers (especially these days). There's good reason to think both Chandler and the Suns would welcome this move. The Suns don't have a need for Bogut and would probably just waive him.

This simply doesn't add up. Just cause GSW cleared space for Durant doesn't mean Bogut is flotsam. He's the best of the 3 with passing skills to help balance the court for Suns guards. Bogut + Dudley + Tucker (before he's traded) is a significant front court upgrade over last season.

And I'd say Len's future is anything but certain, let alone starting caliber.

No for Dallas.

It's not about upgrading really, it's about giving the young guys minutes to develop their game. Bogut/Dudley/Tucker may look better on paper than whatever the Suns had going last season but that would mean they are trying to compete, and with those guys starting it's still not going to win the Suns any games.

The Suns aren't running a daycare. They should play but they don't need starters minutes year 1 and certainly not all together. Trading Chandler, cutting Bogut, and then likely trading Tucker is just begging for bad habits.

Chriss, for example, was raw even for college and will get hammered and possibly demoralized.

Len's future is pretty certain. You don't draft a guy at No 5, develop him for 4 years and then cut him unless it's for an upgrade that fits in with the direction of the franchise. Len will likely be starting by the end of the year (unless he's injured of course).

See above. He regressed in a non-serious season that bordered on gluttony. It's a big year for him.

Post #18 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:36 pm

Qwigglez wrote:Len's future is pretty certain. You don't draft a guy at No 5, develop him for 4 years and then cut him unless it's for an upgrade that fits in with the direction of the franchise. Len will likely be starting by the end of the year (unless he's injured of course).

Giving a guy a starting spot (and a contract to match) just because you drafted him high is a good way to keep a team treadmilling along. You should evaluate Len on his play not his draft spot and to date, he's done nothing to establish himself as an NBA starter.

Post #19 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:18 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Len's future is pretty certain. You don't draft a guy at No 5, develop him for 4 years and then cut him unless it's for an upgrade that fits in with the direction of the franchise. Len will likely be starting by the end of the year (unless he's injured of course).

Giving a guy a starting spot (and a contract to match) just because you drafted him high is a good way to keep a team treadmilling along. You should evaluate Len on his play not his draft spot and to date, he's done nothing to establish himself as an NBA starter.

Len's numbers looked worst than what it really was last year. Most of his shots were mid-range jumpers and he just doesn't have that shot down yet. When we have a healthy Bledsoe/Warren/Booker(or Knight) that should open up some easy buckets for him. Len will be fine as a starter.