Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee)

Moderators: Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe

Grade the Philadelphia offseason

A
4
11%
A-
7
19%
B+
5
14%
B
3
8%
B-
3
8%
C+
2
5%
C
7
19%
C-
2
5%
D
3
8%
F
1
3%
 
Total votes: 37

HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
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Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#1 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:45 pm

Philadelphia Offseason Review

HartfordWhalers wrote:HartfordWhalers Review

Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Rights to Chu Chu

Lots have been said about Hinkie, so I will just note that its a big change and with him stepping down that close to the offseason it feels like it would have been impossible to not assess the offseason without noting the GM change as the backdrop.

Chu Chu is almost as good on twitter as Embiid, and became a fan favorite in his brief tenure that almost ended last deadline in the rescinded Motie trade.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Christian Wood
Ish Smith

How did I include Chu Chu as a key loss and not Wood? Not sure, I really feel like Wood is a great prospect for a flier and its a loss. But Philly's big rotation is pretty stacked, while random fan favorites from the Hinkie years are on the decline. But I'm a huge Wood fan.

Kendall Marshall was beyond awful for Philly. He was recovering from injury, and there have been rumblings that it wasn't fully recovered from. So, hopefully he gets fully healthy and gets his feet under him, but he looked like a guy that might never play again last year. His stay was not without some news, both with his father accusing the team of racism; and the whole weird 'was he expected to be healthy or not by the start of the season' that became a thing after the horrific team start and Hinkie saying he was supposed to have been healthy (which did not seem plausible).

Ish Smith. Oh, Ish. The Sixers bigs feasted off the open looks Ish generated for them:
Noel with Ish -- 56.8 TS% (50.0 TS% without Ish)
Okafor with Ish 61.2 TS% (51.0 TS% without Ish)

However, that overstates the situation:
Noel with Ish -- 56.8% TS% (56.7 TS% from Ish trade on without Ish)
Okafor with Ish 61.2% TS% (56.5 TS% from Ish trade on without Ish)

So, a good amount of the efficiency improvement (all of Noel's and half of Okafor's) was more the team congealing together after a disastrous start versus Ish only looks. But the team showed little improvement in general as Ish also took a monstrous number of bad shots for himself, and isn't a great defender. Letting him walk was a great decision, although Detroit seems the perfect landing spot for him.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

Simmons -- Generally viewed as the you have to take him prospect. A lot has been said about him versus Ingram and I'm just not going to revisit it here and say it was expected.

Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot -- I'm not sure here. There were people that liked him top 10-14 in the draft as a toolsy 3&D prospect, and there is the fact that he is already 21 and only has 1 season of good long range shooting and a very weak statistical profile. Dejounte Murray is the obvious alternative pick, and he was 1.5 years younger, but I get the TLC pick even if I am nervous that it will be a bust of a pick.

Furkan Korkmaz -- I love this pick. A super young guy that is a great shooter and needs to stay stashed for a year? Perfect.

Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota

Kaun supposedly was absorbed for pretty close to his cost. Thats very cheap, but still helps Philly.
2 second rounders for Pleiss made sense as a deal, although losing 500k of next year's cap space is a real cost in what otherwise would be nothing but gravy.

I would have gone Murray over Dunn and I love Noel and would be glad to see Philly keep him, but the general gist of Noel + filler for blue chip pg on rookie scale just starting makes a ton of sense. Philly tried to do a consolidation trade. And given what I expect of LAL next year, Philly was right to keep that pick and not bite on overpaying to show something right now.

Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Last thing first, but the fact that Colangelo is paying a bunch of money to his camp nonguaranteed guys and only getting 2 years is overcompensating and a small scale mistake. If Elton Brand beats out someone that actually is a better player and with more upside, that will be a second overcompensating mistake.

Dario coming over was great, but he said he would for 2 years I have trouble giving credit for it now. Besides that you have the rookie scales on SImmons and Luwawu, and then the 3 vet (but not Brand) signings below.

Sergio Rodriquez: This seems like a smart savvy pick up for some 35 win team looking to squeak into the playoffs while a young pg develops. For Philly, they seem a little too far away to be in that category, so the question is does the roster need a vet stabilizing pg at the potential cost of some ping pong balls?

I think I would have gone Calderon (and 2 2nds) over Rodriquez, with the team (intentionally) worse in the short term as a result of that swap. Then again, my patience and the team's patience are at different points and for a get some extra wins now and set up a respectable NBA team this signing is great. And maybe it will make a huge difference to 2017 free agents and be the more upside play that way. I like the signing, which felt like it came out of the blue. That said, I still would look to flip him come the trade deadline if you can.

Gerald Henderson: When the 2nd year looked guaranteed at first, I disliked this signing. Henderson hasn't had 3 point range for most of his career, and is the sort of so so player that can stabilize a bad team but doesn't progress a good team. With it unguaranteed, I really like it. It opens up the flexibility to get a serious upgrade if one is willing, and keeps the downside where you can have him if you want but aren't stuck in a commitment.

For 21m (and a 2nd), Orlando got Jeff Green and Jodie Meeks on 1 year deals.
For 20.5m (and 3.5m next year), Sac got Afflalo and Tolliver on 1 year (plus that 3.5m) deals.
For 17.5m, Miami got Ellington, Derrick Williams, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters on 1 year deals.
For 17m, Philly got Henderson and Rodriquez on 1 year deals.

I'm pretty happy with how Philly played the 1 year contract market. On the other hand, Bayless got 3 years. Declining. But 3 years and 9m per. On a good team Bayless makes sense as an 8th man. On a bad team he can be a starter as Milwaukee showed. Now, he shouldn't be a starter, but Philly isn't any better of a team than Milwaukee was last year. And Bayless playing a sometimes pg sometimes off ball shooter to Simmons is a formula that he could fill capably enough based off last year. Still, 3 years is a lot to lock into for a guy that is very so so. I'm not a fan of this signing, even if I understand its reasoning. Would I rather have paid Bayless 2/25 with the 2nd year fully unguaranteed? Yes, but 12.5m guaranteed probably wasn't enough to get him,and the team obviously felt like they needed to make a break from not signing anyone (long term).

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Jerry Bayless, Sergio Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, Cat Barber
SG: Gerald Henderson, Nik Stauskas, Hollis Thompson, Brandon Paul
SF: Robert Covington, Jerami Grant, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, James Webb
PF: Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Elton Brand, Shawn Long,
C: Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor, Joel Embiid, Richaun Holmes

Um. That is my best stab, but maybe Okafor gets some 4 minutes Saric or Simmons get some random 3 minutes, and ... well a trade should scramble everything anyway, lets not worry here? If not, I have no idea how this gets juggled effectively.

Needs:
A PG and a SG of the future
Some players to be able to flex down a position or three without losing effectiveness -- Okafor to pf, Saric to sf, Simmons to pg, Grant to sf, Covington to sf or even sg.
A trade.

Additional Thoughts:
The Lakers pick is once again going to be huge for Philly. After all, they still need a pg and a sg long term starter, so having two picks in the top 7 would be huge.
The Kings swap is another wildcard, and could be huge if you believe the Vegas odds that they are the 5th worst team in the league.
Colangelo and ownership patience. Are they willing to wait how long on a center trade? How long before they have better guards than Bayless and Henderson starting?

Projected Win/Loss: 24-58

Off-Season Grade: C- I could have gone D. I left off swapping Hinkie for Colangelo or it would have been an F, so keep that in mind if you think I still went to gentle. I think I might have. In terms of the draft, I'm good with it but whether it was a perfectly fine draft doing what you should do, or an amazing use of 2 late 1sts depends upon where Luwawu should have gone. Besides that, at the end of the day Philly got a bunch of stop gaps, Bayless, and 2 2nds for something close to 60m in cap space. And didn't address the center position or get a long term pg or sg. That feels worse than a C. On the other hand, they didn't lose any long term upside locking in overpaid vets in general (with one exception), or trading off 1sts (Lakers, #24, #26). They didn't dump Brett Brown for D'Antoni, or Noel for a 30 year old pg. That was enough to keep it just out of a D range, but not by much.


bondom34 wrote:bondom34 Review

Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM)

Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Ish Smith
Cristian Wood

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Meh?

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota

I don't like any of these for Philly, so good non-moves.

Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Jerry Bayless, Sergio Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, Cat Barber
SG: Nik Stauskas, Gerald Henderson, Brandon Paul
SF: Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, James Webb
PF: Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Richaun Holmes, Jerami Grant, Shawn Long, Elton Brand
C: Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor, Joel Embiid

I'd start Noel at C.

Needs:
Development, a PG, trading a big at some point, talent, consolidation of assets

Additional Thoughts:
OK, this grade is hard. First, moving on from Hinkie was an awful move for a guy who built a great asset base and deserved to see it through in my opinion. That alone is a big downgrade. Also not a fanof the BC hire, which seems like a ton of nepotism. Again bad.

Now the better. It was a 2 man draft and though I was an Ingram fan, Simmons looks good so far. Embiid looks to return which is a huge bonus, and they didn't make one of those awful rumored deals draft night. They still need a PG, but can move Noel or Okafor (I'd move Okafor) for one. The free agents were all smart moves, vets on relatively short and cheap deals and nothing that looks like a bad contract. Brand was weird but whatever, and the 2 later draft picks I honestly don't know enough about to evaluate. So in the end, after the Hinkie saga I pretty much liked or was neutral on everything. BC seems to have started well, though I"m still suspicious.

Projected Win/Loss: 25-57

Off-Season Grade: C and this is almost entirely because of Hinkie and the fact that the most talent acquired was the draft which was pretty easy


dbrandon wrote:dbrandon Philadelphia 76ers Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Ish Smith
Christian Wood
Rights to Chu Chu

Sam Hinkie. The man who died for the Process. Reviled by some, revered by many, replaced by Colangelo.

He will be missed.

Oh, and that Chu Chu guy too.

Ish Smith was a replacement-level point guard last year for the Sixers, which they SORELY needed. He's not a great player, but he's solid. The guard rotation's not much better, but they at least added a little shooting in Bayless, so Ish isn't that big a loss.

Wood is interesting. He's got potential, but IIRC attitude has been an issue. We'll see what happens. I'm not a huge fan of losing him for nothing buuuuuut...their frontcourt is crowded as it is, so this is probably fine.

Losses:
Kendall Marshall

He's a marginal player and he's been injured. No huge problem here.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

Simmons is the obvious choice here, even with Ingram being a better shooter. If you get the #1 you go for the guy with the higher upside, and I think that's probably Simmons.

I also give them credit for grabbing 2 of my favorite overseas guys in the draft.

Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota

Getting the 2nds from Utah was a nice move, as was getting cash from CLE. Neither move impacts things all that much but both are good.

Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Colangelo's not great, but he's not near as bad as his rep suggests. But cutting Hinkie off for Colangelo really leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Bayless is a solid signing, as is Henderson. Both good journeyman vet guards.

I don't understand the Brand signing. But sure, I guess.

Rodriguez on that deal...OK, I guess? I'd have maybe tried to get an extra option or nonguaranteed year, but whatever works.

I don't know most of the back end of roster signings, but I like them picking up Cat Barber.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Jerryd Bayless, T.J. McConnell, Cat Barber
SG: Nik Stauskas, Gerald Henderson, Brandon Paul
SF: Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, James Webb
PF: Ben Simmons, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, Richaun Holmes, Jerami Grant, Shawn Long, Elton Brand
C: Jahlil Okafor, Joel Embiid

I have NO IDEA what the frontcourt should look like here. Obviously they're incredibly overcrowded there.

Needs:

Their guard rotation is still hot trash. I don't mind Bayless, McConnell, Barber, or Hendo as 2nd or 3rd guards, but this team is dying for a better rotation overall. Bayless is OK as a stopgap, but a good PG prospect would open things up a lot, and the less said about the SG rotation the better.

The frontcourt has to be fixed before the season. Period. Either you fix it or you start dealing with pushy agents unhappy that their guys can't get time/are losing value, particularly in the case of Noel, who should get a big contract this offseason.

Additional Thoughts:

This team is bursting with value and potential, but the pieces don't fit together at all right now. There's very little shooting, the frontcourt is overloaded, and they have some really good potential guys who are buried deep.

It feels like we should be giving this an incomplete instead of actually grading them, since Colangelo is on record as saying that they'll trade someone before the season.

And Nerlens going on the record talking about the frontcourt being a problem is NOT GREAT, BOB, NOT GREAT. Colangelo has to do something ASAP.

Let me say, too, that Hinkie did an incredible job turning a roster almost devoid of talent and options into one bursting at the seams with young potential, whether it's mismatched or not. He had his flaws, but what he did with what he had was very good. Enjoy your teaching, Sam. You earned it.

Projected Win/Loss:
30 wins

Off-Season Grade:
B. I like the moves they've made and I don't want to downgrade them for the frontcourt right now since they're on record that it will be fixed. This feels like one we're going to have to revisit.

If they don't fix the frontcourt before the season, bump mine down to a C-.


BullyKing wrote:BullyKing Review

Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Rights to Chu Chu

If we’re including the loss of Hinkie in this analysis, then the final grade will be an “F” and nothing that comes after will change that. Since that’s boring, I’m going to exclude it.

Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Ish Smith
Christian Wood

I’m going to add Christian Wood as a loss here. Personally, I was not as impressed by his summer league performance as others. Call me crazy but I doubt his pump fake from the three point line and dribble drive to the rim was going to work against non-summer league opponents. But I’d much rather him be the 15th man on the team than Elton Brand.

Nothing really to say about losing Ish Smith other than I wish we hadn't given up two 2nds for him in the first place.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

I loved this draft overall – definitely the high point of the offseason. I’m not going to give credit for taking Simmons but Luwawu and Korkmaz is exactly who I would have taken with those picks. Both project to ultimately be terrific fits with Simmons and stashing Korkmaz to develop overseas (though not exactly an Efes strong suit) is ideal given our roster crunch. Luwawu in particular is someone I was looking at as a trade-up target.

The one negative to me was Colangelo’s lack of interest/ability to acquire another late 1st/early 2nd when it seemed like both were available fairly cheap given the draft day reports from Woj that half the league was looking to get out of the 1st. I think not moving back into the draft to pick up a Dejounte Murray, Patrick McCaw, Demetrious Jackson type was a mistake. While not a huge issue, I’m going to grade draft day mistakes harshly since it’s by far the most important date on the Sixers’ calendar.

Overall though, really good showing and for 26 picks at least had me wondering whether Hinkie’s removal was just a PR thing and he was really running things still behind the scenes.

Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota

I very much struggle with how to grade the offseason overall because it is unclear how much was just other teams thankfully saving Colangelo from himself. Each of those three trades above are simply horrible in my opinion and I would have hated any of them (same of Teague for Noel+). On the one hand, the trades were reported by typically reputable insiders. On the other hand, Colangelo denied them and they are contrary to everything he has said this offseason about them not going to make a stupid trade just for roster balance. Then again, he’s a Colangelo so his word is more or less worthless. Ultimately, there’s too much smoke to ignore them completely and so this is a big negative for me.

Kendall Marshall trade was great as two 2nds for eating Pleiss was very good value.

The Kaun trade was the complete opposite. I don’t begrudge the owners from acquiring cash but would rather fill the allotment in trades where we’re actually receiving something else in addition. Given how much room till we reach the floor, I assume more cap dumps are on the way and cash could have come in those deals. But I also think the trade shows the difference between Colangelo and Hinkie. He traded the rights to Chu Chu without getting the rights to a similar never going to come over foreign player back. The Cavs have five of these types (obviously not including Osman there) and surely would have included one given the discounted price they were paying. Not getting one back shows a lack of foresight to me and Colangelo’s lack of concern about getting every asset possible, no matter how small, out of every deal. Since I’m sure I’ve now put more thought into this trade than Colangelo ever did, I’ll move on.

Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Sergio Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, Cat Barber
SG: Nik Stauskas, Jerry Bayless, Gerald Henderson, Brandon Paul
SF: Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, James Webb
PF: Ben Simmons, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, Richaun Holmes, Jerami Grant, Shawn Long, Elton Brand
C: Jahlil Okafor, Joel Embiid

Colangelo hiring was terrible not simply because of his track record but the process. The ownership group asked the fanbase to have unprecedented patience and the vast majority enthusiastically got behind it. What happened was a slap in the face to those of us who supported Hinkie and the process.

The Bayless contract was a year too long and probably 2 million per too much but I get that we’re in a position where paying a premium is required. I was at least happy that Colangelo targeted guys that fit with Simmons and the rest of the current roster. I also give him credit for attempting to overpay on one year deals rather than make long-term mistakes (Evan Turner, Deng, etc.) in a race to mediocrity.

Sergio and Henderson were both fine. Good move on one year deals for both and maybe one or both gets traded for an asset at the deadline. Sergio can also impart some advice on adapting not just to the NBA but the US to Saric, Luwawu and Simmons (to a much lesser extent).

Needs: One more year of lottery luck.

Additional Thoughts:
Obviously the big man glut that remains is the lead story. I’m in the camp that would prefer to let it play out more than make a bad trade. I’ll make an analogy to the Philadelphia Eagles who similarly were dealing with a glut at one position (QB). It seemed like all the teams had filled their QB needs and/or were not willing to meet the Eagles asking price for Bradford. Then Teddy Bridgewater goes down and four days later the Eagles get their asking price. You’re always only one injury or one misguided belief that your team can make a run this year from getting what you want for either Noel or Okafor. Or we’re one injury away from not having such a glut anymore ourselves.

Speaking of which, I couldn’t finish this review without mentioning Embiid. After his injury last offseason, I told myself I wouldn’t let myself get drawn in again – to dream of what he could be. I was kidding myself. As excited as I am about Simmons, I’m much more excited to (hopefully) finally see Embiid play. I’m sure some of it is the waiting and anticipation but I’ve never seen a Philadelphia young athlete so universally praised before. I’ve barely ever seen anyone even question that he is a transformational player after providing the appropriate health caveat. Almost as importantly, the Sixers are a team in need of identity. Joel being the public face and identity I think will take a lot of pressure off Simmons and Okafor and allow them to flourish.

Projected Win/Loss: 24-48

Off-Season Grade: B- I give the draft an A- (deduction for inability to get another late 1st/early 2nd). I give the trades/signings a C since that seems like a fair grade for a combination of good, bad, and largely irrelevant. So that left me between a B and a B-. Since there has to be some deduction for the fact that Colangelo was likely saved from his own stupidity at least once, I erred to the lower.


jayjaysee wrote:jayjaysee Review

Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Rights to Chu Chu

I'm not going to credit/discredit Philly for Hinkie situation at all. If I did, I'd have started their offseason with an F(---) and raised it a grade every month Colangelo, had an opportunity to, and didn't pull a Colangelo. So at this point, ignoring all other offseasons moves - Philly would be back at a fair grading point thanks to BC not doing anything stupid, yet.

Chu Chu, oh well. I'm sorry, HW.

Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Ish Smith
Christian Wood

No one on this list is worth mentioning either. Ish is only worth mentioning because they paid a decent price to get him, but thanks to Hinkie's work, the seconds didn't hurt to lose - was a bad trade still though.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

TLC and Furkan are great targets. And Ben was clear, so no need mentioning that. The players picked, A. The inactivity? Meh.

I'd rather have seen them more active, BC should have known he wanted to add vets, of course he knew that we all knew that.. So he should have known he was going to have a roster crunch in September. On draft night, the guys (Bullyking) Philly is considering in trades (Holmes, TJ, Hollis, etc) likely have more value than once FA is over and teams have a shot to overpay Ish or similar players.

Trading Hollis and Grant on draft night and getting Charlotte's first (and maybe more) would have stopped Hollis from being benched for Gerald Henderson or probably traded to Milwaukee in October for a late 2nd. And one of Grant or Holmes likely doesn't even see the court most nights, don't ask me which though... Wasting Hinkie's genius.

Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota

I can't give or take credit for trade rumors as I don't know which is truth.

The Marshall trade was a win.

I thought I liked the Chuchu trade until I saw Bullyking's opinion of it and now I don't anymore. Hinkie would have rights to a new guy that is never coming over since it was such a minor deal and Cleveland isn't in a position to care about such players. I agree with BK completely.

Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Hinkie/Colangelo is a really awful thing. I cringe at the thought of ESPN reporting how great BC is in two years when the Sixers are doing good.

Bayless is a good fit. I'd rather have 13 mil in a year for two years, since hopefully they won't need him in 3. But he is okay coming off the bench, so no big deal having the extra year if "2017 NBA draft pick" is ready to start. I don't think the 3rd year will stop Philly from signing anyone and can easily be moved if it does. He will definitely be nice to have this season though.

Rodriguez contract should have had an T.O. or second year UNG. Even if doing that meant paying him 11 million this year. Or 12. The money this season means nothing and next season could have been a nice asset if he somehow is a good NBA player.

Everyone else likes the Henderson signing. I don't. I don't think they needed help there. I really think Hollis and Roco are good players. Bayless/Sergio will see some action at the two, Simmons at the 3 (I think a lot of his minutes there?).. TLC and Nik could have fought for the spare minutes. Henderson is jag and Sergio/Bayless were the jags for the offseason.

Saric coming over is nice. But he always said he was coming over, so crow to those that didn't believe him.

Brand shouldn't make the team. Their bigs are good and don't need vet leadership, they need minutes and a roster spot.

Current Depth Chart: (Not taken from BBI and probably not what will happen)
PG: J. Bayless, S Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, (not making team? C. Barber)
SG: H. Thompson, G. Henderson, N. Stauskas, (not making team? B. Paul)
SF: B. Simmons, R. Covington, T. Luwawu-Cabarrot, (not making team? James Webb)
PF: J. Okafor, D. Saric, R. Holmes, J. Grant, E. Brand (not making team? Shawn Long)
C: N. Noel, J. Embiid

And one of Hinkie's 2nd round gems getting traded for a future 2nd before the season starts if Brand actually makes the team.

Needs:
Whoever has stopped BC from doing anything stupid, to stay around as long as BC is around. And lottery luck next offseason, with or without LAL's pick.

Additional Thoughts:
I guess this is the space to mention Noel/Jah/Joel? I credit Philly for not trading low on any of them. Maybe if Joel is having a good rookie season you can trade Noel for cheap but as of now Philly has two centers. And the low shouldn't be that low as it will be the best of the worst offers (HW).. I wish they'd trade Okafor and not Noel, but rumors have all been Noel so I assume he is the one that will be traded. I don't think they need to rush it and don't knock them at all for not having a deal done.

I don't like adding all three of Bayless/Sergio/Gerald but I'm the only one (that I have seen) that feels that way so maybe Philly needed it.

Projected Win/Loss: 22-60

Off-Season Grade: B- Like I said, moved up a grade every month BC didn't pull a Colangelo since June. Knocked some for not being active on draft night and not having the foresight to get value for the decent/good player(s) that either won't make the team or won't play any minutes... Not knocked for having 3 centers because I don't know how bad the rl offers have been, so I can't discredit him for turning them down.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#2 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:01 pm

For those wondering, Slava just openly tanked in honor of the Sixers for his review.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#3 » by Andre Roberstan » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:40 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:For those wondering, Slava just openly tanked in honor of the Sixers for his review.


I'm wearing a Slava's MacBook Died For Our Sins T-shirt right now at the Rights to Slava's Crappy Phone predraft party. Whatever new computer he gets is probably going to ruin his review.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#4 » by Chinook » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:30 pm

I thought they did a pretty decent job getting guys who can help get some wins while not committing to them for too long. Would've liked to have seen more Spurs, Hawks or Jazz cast-offs, though or maybe some guys from the ANT. If you're going to have vets, it's ideal to have some with corporate knowledge. They supposedly tried to get Manu, but Dellevadova or trading for Mills/Engils. It would make it feel less like you're trying to raise your team's overall 2K rating.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#5 » by jayjaysee » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:29 pm

Bullyking has 10 games ending in ties..

Cause I was invited;

Spoiler:
Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Rights to Chu Chu

I'm not going to credit/discredit Philly for Hinkie situation at all. If I did, I'd have started their offseason with an F(---) and raised it a grade every month Colangelo, had an opportunity to, and didn't pull a Colangelo. So at this point, ignoring all other offseasons moves - Philly would be back at a fair grading point thanks to BC not doing anything stupid, yet.

Chu Chu, oh well. I'm sorry, HW.


Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Ish Smith
Christian Wood

No one on this list is worth mentioning either. Ish is only worth mentioning because they paid a decent price to get him, but thanks to Hinkie's work, the seconds didn't hurt to lose - was a bad trade still though.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

TLC and Furkan are great targets. And Ben was clear, so no need mentioning that. The players picked, A. The inactivity? Meh.

I'd rather have seen them more active, BC should have known he wanted to add vets, of course he knew that we all knew that.. So he should have known he was going to have a roster crunch in September. On draft night, the guys (Bullyking) Philly is considering in trades (Holmes, TJ, Hollis, etc) likely have more value than once FA is over and teams have a shot to overpay Ish or similar players.

Trading Hollis and Grant on draft night and getting Charlotte's first (and maybe more) would have stopped Hollis from being benched for Gerald Henderson or probably traded to Milwaukee in October for a late 2nd. And one of Grant or Holmes likely doesn't even see the court most nights, don't ask me which though... Wasting Hinkie's genius.


Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota



Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Current Depth Chart: (Not taken from BBI and probably not what will happen)
PG: J. Bayless, S Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, (not making team? C. Barber)
SG: H. Thompson, G. Henderson, N. Stauskas, (not making team? B. Paul)
SF: B. Simmons, R. Covington, T. Luwawu-Cabarrot, (not making team? James Webb)
PF: J. Okafor, D. Saric, R. Holmes, J. Grant, E. Brand (not making team? Shawn Long)
C: N. Noel, J. Embiid

And one of Hinkie's 2nd round gems getting traded for a future 2nd before the season starts if Brand actually makes the team.


Hinkie/Colangelo is a really awful thing. I cringe at the thought of ESPN reporting how great BC is in two years when the Sixers are doing good.

Bayless is a good fit. I'd rather have 13 mil a year for two years, since hopefully they won't need him in 3. But he is okay coming off the bench, so no big deal having the extra year if "2017 NBA draft pick" is ready to start. I don't think the 3rd year will stop Philly from signing anyone and can easily be moved if it does. He will definitely be nice to have this season though.

Rodriguez contract should have had an T.O. or second year UNG. Even if doing that meant paying him 11 million this year. Or 12. The money this season means nothing and next season could have been a nice asset if he somehow is a good NBA player.

Everyone else likes the Henderson signing. I don't. I don't think they needed help there. I really think Hollis and Roco are good players. Bayless/Sergio will see some action at the two, Simmons at the 3 (I think a lot of his minutes there?).. TLC and Nik could have fought for the spare minutes. Henderson is jag and Sergio/Bayless were the jags for the offseason.

Saric coming over is nice. But he always said he was coming over, so crow to those that didn't believe him.

Brand shouldn't make the team. Their bigs are good and don't need vet leadership, they need minutes and a roster spot.

- I can't give or take credit for trade rumors as I don't know which is truth.

The Marshall trade was a win.

I thought I liked the Chuchu trade until I saw Bullyking's opinion of it and now I don't anymore. Hinkie would have rights to a new guy that is never coming over since it was such a minor deal and Cleveland isn't in a position to care about such players. I agree with BK completely.

Needs: Whoever has stopped BC from doing anything stupid, to stay around as long as BC is around. And lottery luck next offseason, with or without LAL's pick.

Additional Thoughts:

I guess this is the space to mention Noel/Jah/Joel? I credit Philly for not trading low on any of them. Maybe if Joel is having a good rookie season you can trade Noel for cheap but as of now Philly has two centers. And the low shouldn't be that low as it will be the best of the worst offers (HW).. I wish they'd trade Okafor and not Noel, but rumors have all been Noel so I assume he is the one that will be traded. I don't think they need to rush it and don't knock them at all for not having a deal done.

I don't like adding all three of Bayless/Sergio/Gerald but I'm the only one (that I have seen) that feels that way so maybe Philly needed it.


Projected Win/Loss: 22-60

Off-Season Grade: B-

Like I said, moved up a grade every month BC didn't pull a Colangelo since June. Knocked some for not being active on draft night and not having the foresight to get value for the decent/good player(s) that either won't make the team or won't play any minutes... Not knocked for having 3 centers because I don't know how bad the rl offers have been, so I can't discredit him for turning them down.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#6 » by BullyKing » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:39 pm

jayjaysee wrote:Bullyking has 10 games ending in ties..

Cause I was invited;

Spoiler:
Key Losses:
Sam Hinkie (GM -- in April so maybe before this window should start but Philly is in the offseason then)
Rights to Chu Chu

I'm not going to credit/discredit Philly for Hinkie situation at all. If I did, I'd have started their offseason with an F(---) and raised it a grade every month Colangelo, had an opportunity to, and didn't pull a Colangelo. So at this point, ignoring all other offseasons moves - Philly would be back at a fair grading point thanks to BC not doing anything stupid, yet.

Chu Chu, oh well. I'm sorry, HW.


Losses:
Kendall Marshall
Ish Smith
Christian Wood

No one on this list is worth mentioning either. Ish is only worth mentioning because they paid a decent price to get him, but thanks to Hinkie's work, the seconds didn't hurt to lose - was a bad trade still though.

Draft:
#1 Ben Simmons
#24 Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot
#26 Furkan Korkmaz (stashed)

TLC and Furkan are great targets. And Ben was clear, so no need mentioning that. The players picked, A. The inactivity? Meh.

I'd rather have seen them more active, BC should have known he wanted to add vets, of course he knew that we all knew that.. So he should have known he was going to have a roster crunch in September. On draft night, the guys (Bullyking) Philly is considering in trades (Holmes, TJ, Hollis, etc) likely have more value than once FA is over and teams have a shot to overpay Ish or similar players.

Trading Hollis and Grant on draft night and getting Charlotte's first (and maybe more) would have stopped Hollis from being benched for Gerald Henderson or probably traded to Milwaukee in October for a late 2nd. And one of Grant or Holmes likely doesn't even see the court most nights, don't ask me which though... Wasting Hinkie's genius.


Trades:
Kendall Marshall to Utah Jazz for Tibor Pleiss, two 2017 second-rounders and cash (TBD).
Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum for Sasha Kaun and cash (TBD)

Also lots of non-trade rumors primarily including:
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #3 (target Dunn) rejected by Boston
Noel and LAL '17 1st (top 3 protected then unprotected 2018) for #3 rejected by Philly
Noel, Covington, #24 and #26 for #5 (target Dunn) rejected by Minnesota



Free Agency:
Bryan Colangelo (again in April so maybe not applicable)
Jerryd Bayless 3/$27m declining
Gerald Henderson 2/$18m (2nd year ungtd)
Sergio Rodriguez 1/$8m
Ben Simmons rookie scale
Dario Saric rookie scale
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot rookie scale
Elton Brand 1/$1.5m (nongtd)
James Webb, Shawn Long, Brandon Paul and Cat Barber all to 2/$1.4m (mostly ungtd)

Current Depth Chart: (Not taken from BBI and probably not what will happen)
PG: J. Bayless, S Rodriquez, T.J. McConnell, (not making team? C. Barber)
SG: H. Thompson, G. Henderson, N. Stauskas, (not making team? B. Paul)
SF: B. Simmons, R. Covington, T. Luwawu-Cabarrot, (not making team? James Webb)
PF: J. Okafor, D. Saric, R. Holmes, J. Grant, E. Brand (not making team? Shawn Long)
C: N. Noel, J. Embiid

And one of Hinkie's 2nd round gems getting traded for a future 2nd before the season starts if Brand actually makes the team.


Hinkie/Colangelo is a really awful thing. I cringe at the thought of ESPN reporting how great BC is in two years when the Sixers are doing good.

Bayless is a good fit. I'd rather have 13 mil in a year for two years, since hopefully they won't need him in 3. But he is okay coming off the bench, so no big deal having the extra year if "2017 NBA draft pick" is ready to start. I don't think the 3rd year will stop Philly from signing anyone and can easily be moved if it does. He will definitely be nice to have this season though.

Rodriguez contract should have had an T.O. or second year UNG. Even if doing that meant paying him 11 million this year. Or 12. The money this season means nothing and next season could have been a nice asset if he somehow is a good NBA player.

Everyone else likes the Henderson signing. I don't. I don't think they needed help there. I really think Hollis and Roco are good players. Bayless/Sergio will see some action at the two, Simmons at the 3 (I think a lot of his minutes there?).. TLC and Nik could have fought for the spare minutes. Henderson is jag and Sergio/Bayless were the jags for the offseason.

Saric coming over is nice. But he always said he was coming over, so crow to those that didn't believe him.

Brand shouldn't make the team. Their bigs are good and don't need vet leadership, they need minutes and a roster spot.

- I can't give or take credit for trade rumors as I don't know which is truth.

The Marshall trade was a win.

I thought I liked the Chuchu trade until I saw Bullyking's opinion of it and now I don't anymore. Hinkie would have rights to a new guy that is never coming over since it was such a minor deal and Cleveland isn't in a position to care about such players. I agree with BK completely.

Needs: Whoever has stopped BC from doing anything stupid, to stay around as long as BC is around. And lottery luck next offseason, with or without LAL's pick.

Additional Thoughts:

I guess this is the space to mention Noel/Jah/Joel? I credit Philly for not trading low on any of them. Maybe if Joel is having a good rookie season you can trade Noel for cheap but as of now Philly has two centers. And the low shouldn't be that low as it will be the best of the worst offers (HW).. I wish they'd trade Okafor and not Noel, but rumors have all been Noel so I assume he is the one that will be traded. I don't think they need to rush it and don't knock them at all for not having a deal done.

I don't like adding all three of Bayless/Sergio/Gerald but I'm the only one (that I have seen) that feels that way so maybe Philly needed it.


Projected Win/Loss: 22-60

Off-Season Grade: B-

Like I said, moved up a grade every month BC didn't pull a Colangelo since June. Knocked some for not being active on draft night and not having the foresight to get value for the decent/good player(s) that either won't make the team or won't play any minutes... Not knocked for having 3 centers because I don't know how bad the rl offers have been, so I can't discredit him for turning them down.


The invitation to do a review never said math was required.

But I agree with everything you say and this was an excellent review. The only thing I wanted to clarify is your point about no one else seeming to think the three vets are overkill. I actually agree with you (and suspect the others do as well) but think our lack of mentioning it was due to the "well, it could have been worse" mindset.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#7 » by jayjaysee » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:44 pm

BullyKing wrote: "well, it could have been worse" mindset.


I wanted to give an A for this reason alone, but felt that was unwarranted...

I guess that is fair, if you are expecting to trade Noel for Vasquez and end up just signing three randoms - it kind of feels like a win.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#8 » by Ferulci » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:48 pm

Solid B/B+ (depending of rooki production) for me.
- I loved their draft. Simmons was a no brainer but Luwawu and Korkmaz are steals.
- I like the cheap offseasons acquisitions they did to put around the young core. Bayless/Henderson/Rodriguez are not good enough to make them mediocre (so they still get an high pick next year) but they are hard workers who will keep the youngsters in line.
- As far as I'm concerned, even though I hate Colangelo, he's a better team builder than Hinkie so I dont see where they lose going forward.

They dont get an A because of the opportunity cost. Okafor/Noel trade value are lowered for each second they spend together. Philly (allegedly) thought they could get a Top 5 pick for one of them and got hesitant once they saw it wasnt the case. So, either they become blue chips this season or they will be traded at loss.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing) 

Post#9 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:55 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
BullyKing wrote: "well, it could have been worse" mindset.


I wanted to give an A for this reason alone, but felt that was unwarranted...

I guess that is fair, if you are expecting to trade Noel for Vasquez and end up just signing three randoms - it kind of feels like a win.


I almost wrote up a big paragraph about this. Basically:
1) There is grading based upon results (regardless of how teed up for positive results you were).
2) There is grading based upon expectations of what a team will do with its situation.
3) There is grading based upon what a team could/should do with its situation.

Looking at it like that:
1) Philly just got Ben Simmons, a healthy Embiid, Dario coming over, Luwawu, and a coule of random vets. Thats an A/A+ if you grade that way, it is just a ton of top line talent and stabilizing vets.
2) Then you have to expect Simmons at #1, so in that way it is harsher. But you also have to give Colangelo credit for not screwing things up, which (most) GM's don't get. I'm really not a fan of prizes for not doing something dumb, but under that grading this is a B+ or higher?
3) This discounts having a setup of a bazillion cap dollars and #1 pick. And Dario's rights. And Embiid's recovery rights. And then what did Philly do? Not screw up, but nothing brilliant that gained value in general. Well, I think you should gain some more value so thats a C- or D. I'm rapidly talking myself back down to a D, but the later 1sts were interesting enough that I went gentle and C-.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#10 » by LloydFree » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:34 am

Most of the grades were in the C range, which I think is about right. I liked the short term signing of Henderson and to a lesser extent, Bayless. I do think they probably over-payed for what Rodriguez can offer, it was only for one year. The 76ers board seemed to be ecstatic about the draft, but I wasn't thrilled with what they did with their picks in the 20's. Luwawu was OK value, but I was particularly troubled by the decision to pass on Skal Labisserre to select Furkan Korkmaz. There were a number of better talents available that went later. But I guess Ben Simmons is enough to give the team a passing grade overall.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#11 » by winter_mute_13 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:34 pm

For a team that just went through regime change, that was a surprisingly uneventful offseason.

Adding Simmons is the big move. Saric coming over is another major one. But both moves were expected, so the impact seems smaller somehow. More importantly though, both players seem to add to the Sixers' awkward roster balance. It's kind of glaring how weak the Sixers still are in the backcourt, despite the addition of some stopgap vets. Couldn't the Sixers turn some of their assets into young guards who they can develop right now? That seems like a missed opportunity.

Noel putting public pressure on the Sixers with his not-quite-a-trade-request doesn't help. Colangelo coming in was supposed to stop the "guys don't want to play for the Sixers" talk. IMO Noel is hurting his future value here, so it's a dangerous gambit. Colangelo might still have enough public goodwill left to hold off for a while, and IMO he should. It's probably good to at least evaluate which of Noel/Okafor you want around your core, which is probably Simmons and maybe Embiid too if he really does pull off a miraculous recovery.

The ghost of Hinkie still hangs over the team. I think we're all still waiting for Colangelo to put his stamp on the Sixers. C+ offseason grade from me.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#12 » by brackdan70 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:44 pm

Good draft, but hard not to with the #1 pick. I really liked Luwawu pre draft...we will see if he materializes into anything. C+ or maybe B- from me. They didn't do anything regrettable and had some minor decent moves plus a good draft. i really think they let Hinke go too soon. Not sure he was the long term answer, but seems like they committed to a path then bailed a little early. Have a roster full of great potential and still likely a couple good lotto picks this year (sixers and lakers).
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#13 » by RexRyan » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:54 pm

D. I really wanted Hinkie to see it through. For someone else to take over the Grand Experiment seems wrong.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#14 » by ponder719 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:01 pm

I can't argue with the moves Colangelo made, though I also don't see anything inspired, but the move Harris made just obliterated the entire offseason for me.

Ownership gets an F, Front office gets a provisional B, Embiid's Twitter account still gets an A.

Overall I'm going C-, and referring people to my signature.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#15 » by Agnostifarian » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:31 pm

Colangelo coming in as an unabashed self promoter is just unbearable. He hasn't done anything to screw up Sam's work, YET. Every day, I wait for him to put his "stamp" on the franchise but I hope that ownership will sell the team and somehow, Bryan will go away with them.

Based on Noel's contract status and his recent grumbling, he will probably be the first guy traded away. I think he's an outstanding prospect in his own right and I wish him well on his next team.

I am really happy for Brett Brown and I am dying to see this new roster hit the hardwood. Things are really looking up!

If Sam was still GM, I'd give them an A. Colangelo gets a D+ mainly because he dresses well.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#16 » by NBAMythbuster » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:28 pm

I don't think Hinkie was the best rebuilding GM to be honest. His general idea was right, his execution not so much. That said they replaced him with a GM who is probably worse so it's hard to think highly of it.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#17 » by jayjaysee » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:45 pm

NBAMythbuster wrote:I don't think Hinkie was the best rebuilding GM to be honest. His general idea was right, his execution not so much. That said they replaced him with a GM who is probably worse so it's hard to think highly of it.


If Hinkie were given the free reign he was the first two years, I fully think the center mess would have been cleaned up either at the TD last year or on draft night this year. He'd have had no problem with the Sixers trading Jah 40 games into his rookie season before the problem escalated to what it is now and definitely before trying Noel at PF to make Jah more successful, that experiment lowered the value of two players at once. At least the perceived value from Realgm...

The process would never have allowed that to happen.

Hinkie drafted best player available and had no problem flipping players for delayed payoffs. And he probably won every single trade he was in, no matter how minor. And he found actual decent/quality NBA players by owning the 2nd round a couple years.

I don't think it is fair to judge him for the mess he left with the center situation, because his actual execution/idea/plan/process was collecting and flipping assets until he had a number one player, ala Ben Simmons or a healthy Joel. So there's no reason to think he'd still have three centers if ownership hadn't broken trust early last year.

It's bad how Philly did Hinkie. I'm a Dallas fan and have no ties, but it's really bad.

I don't know what makes for a good GM if it isn't; winning every single trade you are in, drafting well early and late, and turning a low end treadmill team into one of the brightest futures in the league...
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#18 » by NBAMythbuster » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:56 pm

I just don't agree he took the best players available in his drafting. Period full stop.
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#19 » by jayjaysee » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:28 pm

NBAMythbuster wrote:I just don't agree he took the best players available in his drafting. Period full stop.


So you'd have had him draft Mario or Mudiay over Jah? Since Zinger was who Hinkie wanted to and he wasn't allowed to or whatever reports say about it? Or the year before should he not have gambled on Embiid and drafted Aaron Gordon, Exum, or Smart? Or are you talking about when he ripped the Pels off and got Noel+ for Jrue, should he have taken Ben McLemore or KCP?

I'd take a shot on Embiid over Gordon/Exum/Smart if Dallas was rebuilding.

Or are you hindsight judging? Giannis, Gobert, LaVine etc? Cause that's hardly fair to set as the standard for a good draft.

Just say you don't really know why you don't like Hinkie, you just don't. "period full stop"
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Re: Philadelphia early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/BullyKing/jayjaysee) 

Post#20 » by gom » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:54 am

I went with A just on the strength of the draft. Luwawu and Simmons especially should be great contributors for many years.

76ers fans should get someone like Josh Jackson next year and in 2017-18 will crush! They deserve it after waiting so long!

I know it's tough, but keeping James Webb III is a good idea. He's a good ranged shooter and can play both F positions. Great player to come off from the bench behind Saric and Simmons.
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