Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap!

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BoyzNTheHood
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Re: Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap! 

Post#41 » by BoyzNTheHood » Wed Dec 7, 2016 5:41 am

bwgood77 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I certainly agree he should be on the table if the right deal is put forward.


:lol: That reply seems like you don't like my hypothetical idea.


Well, it's kind of tough to argue because all thing being equal, where the teams are in their competitive, stage, the Suns maybe going younger, etc, it might make sense. I haven't studied Val that well. It appears to be a reasonable deal. I do want to clear out Tucker. I don't know what other deals might be in the works either. Chandler has played really well for us. Do I want the team to win games though? Not really. I am not sure how long Val's contract is. We have Len who may command a lot of money. There are now rumors Philly is looking into a Noel for Knight deal, which is another RFA.

But one thing Chandler does seem to be helping out with being a good vet leader for the young guys. We have Dudley and Chandler and I don't mind him in that role. But honestly I'd have to know more about Val's REAL strengths and weaknesses before taking on his deal because I would ask myself why they would want to trade him for that as well. All indications though, are that Chandler and the FO want him in Phx. And not necessarily in that "tell people what you are supposed to say" type of way. There were some major stories about it over the last month or so. My gut kind of tells me he likes the situation in Phx and Phx likes what he brings to the team, not just from the standpoint of what he provides on the court. Of course this could all change in a month when we lost 10 more in a row, people are unhappy, etc, so who knows?


Fair enough. Val's real strengths were on display in the playoffs when Lowry and DeRozan were throwing up bricks and Val was our only option. He really showed that he should be the first option and gave the Indiana bigs plus Hassan Whiteside the business. He's an excellent post up player, he's really strong and can grab a lot of rebounds, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively.

On the other hand, Chandler provides the defensive presence we sorely need in Toronto. As you could see with Biyombo last year, Casey's system really depends on a defensive shot blocker/rebounder at C. With that said, without Val last year Toronto would have lost in the first round to Indiana. So it's a tough situation. A lot depends on how Lowry/DeRozan perform these playoffs.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap! 

Post#42 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 6:02 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
:lol: That reply seems like you don't like my hypothetical idea.


Well, it's kind of tough to argue because all thing being equal, where the teams are in their competitive, stage, the Suns maybe going younger, etc, it might make sense. I haven't studied Val that well. It appears to be a reasonable deal. I do want to clear out Tucker. I don't know what other deals might be in the works either. Chandler has played really well for us. Do I want the team to win games though? Not really. I am not sure how long Val's contract is. We have Len who may command a lot of money. There are now rumors Philly is looking into a Noel for Knight deal, which is another RFA.

But one thing Chandler does seem to be helping out with being a good vet leader for the young guys. We have Dudley and Chandler and I don't mind him in that role. But honestly I'd have to know more about Val's REAL strengths and weaknesses before taking on his deal because I would ask myself why they would want to trade him for that as well. All indications though, are that Chandler and the FO want him in Phx. And not necessarily in that "tell people what you are supposed to say" type of way. There were some major stories about it over the last month or so. My gut kind of tells me he likes the situation in Phx and Phx likes what he brings to the team, not just from the standpoint of what he provides on the court. Of course this could all change in a month when we lost 10 more in a row, people are unhappy, etc, so who knows?


Fair enough. Val's real strengths were on display in the playoffs when Lowry and DeRozan were throwing up bricks and Val was our only option. He really showed that he should be the first option and gave the Indiana bigs plus Hassan Whiteside the business. He's an excellent post up player, he's really strong and can grab a lot of rebounds, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively.

On the other hand, Chandler provides the defensive presence we sorely need in Toronto. As you could see with Biyombo last year, Casey's system really depends on a defensive shot blocker/rebounder at C. With that said, without Val last year Toronto would have lost in the first round to Indiana. So it's a tough situation. A lot depends on how Lowry/DeRozan perform these playoffs.


That's antoher reason we love Chandler is that he is a crazy good rebounder this year and our PFs are raw and can't rebound or Dudley. Tucker can rebound but we need him. Len is a great rebounder too as is Alan Williams but he only deserves spot minutes.

Our third best rebounder is Tucker and Len and Chandler don't work particularly well together.
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Re: Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap! 

Post#43 » by SideSwipe » Wed Dec 7, 2016 8:15 am

Smitty731 wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:I don't think I have been unreasonable, don't see why a mod would be angry.


No one is angry. HW crafted a very detailed message about why we can't allow certain things on a global board because it turns the whole board into a mess. You then made it about you and blew it off. Your response made it seem like you were remotely interested in what he wrote and only your situation. If that is how it is, then there is no point to him continuing to debate.

On the other hand, if you do care about what he wrote and the board as a whole, then look at your response and consider how you could have improved it to reflect that.

The reality is that all of the mods on this board watch a lot of basketball. A lot. We all have seen every team several teams. That doesn't mean we are all right in our evaluations of everyone, or that we are all engrossed in the daily ins and outs of teams. But it does mean that we collectively have no patience for the "you don't watch/follow/live my team, so you are wrong" responses. And we have even less patience for posters who act like every other poster, who may not watch as many games, is a moron for not knowing every little detail.

I'm not belittling Chandler or his situation (which he and the team handled with absolute class), but does it matter why he missed 7 games? Sure it is unfair to say he was hurt, but at this point in his career, he's going to miss games for injury at some point. The bigger point was that he's been out.

I'm picking on that situation because unless you are really in deep on the league or the Suns, it is fair to just look and see that he was out and assume he was hurt. It is cool to correct the poster, but to make him feel like he's stupid is just uncalled for.

As your own bwgood77 can tell you, moderating a global board is a thankless and hard task. You have to be a lot more zero tolerance than team boards and that can lead to posters thinking we are too harsh at times. But we have to be or it all devolves into a place no one wants to be.

Now I will step off my soapbox.


No offense Smitty, but the language used "reeks of ignorance" was completely off base especially considering the glaring errors. If you are going to use that type of phraseology, you had better back it up with fact, not your own ignorance. Strong language deserves a strong response. It doesn't seem wise to defend that type of language and come out against the correction, as it only promotes more language like that. That's my $0.02.

The OP value is off, the fit is not good, the analysis was incorrect and incomplete. I do give this trade some points for being something different that we haven't seen much of, but other than that it's DOA, IMO.
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Re: Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap! 

Post#44 » by gaspar » Wed Dec 7, 2016 8:37 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:
gaspar wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:Sorry, but this is not true. Last season, Valanciunas sported a +18 Net Rating. This season, he is +10 Net Rtg. For his career, he is +13/100 possessions. Yes he is not a stretch/small ball center, but let's not exaggerate please.

2016/17: Val On: +5.2, Val Off +14.6, On/Off -9.4
2015/16: Val On: +3.0, Val Off +5.1, On/Off -2.1
2014/15: Val On: -0.7, Val Off +7.6, On/Off -8.3
2013/14: Val On: +2.5, Val Off +4.8, On/Off -2.3
2012/13: Val On: -3.7, Val Off -0.6, On/Off -3.1

source: stats.nba.com


He's looking at individual Ortg and Drtg (per Bball ref). Mostly pointless stats, but he did get them right.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/valanjo01.html

Yeah, using estimates from B-R.com instead of actual data from nba.com is pretty pointless. Someone could even say that it reeks of ignorance.
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Re: Toronto - Phoenix -- 6 person swap! 

Post#45 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Dec 7, 2016 1:08 pm

I guess 3 mods telling people how to act in one thread wasn't actually enough for some people. Well done.

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