Best proposal (containment!) thread: "Butler to Boston"

[BleedGreen1989]

David Aldridge saying the "hold up" is CHI wants Crowder in the deal with the Brooklyn 17.

Where? There's nothing on his twitter account.

Can't copy the format on my phone for some reason.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1506931&start=1200#start_here

Page 61. At the top. About the 1:50 mark

[BleedGreen1989]

Bradley / Brk 17 / rights to Yabusele / Minnesota 2nd 2017

Is as high as I'd go. Bulls want more id say thanks but no thanks

Pretty much what I think. Both Brooklyn picks is crazy talk in my opinion. He's not worth that.

I really strive to be as non-bias as I can be and this is pretty much where I'm at.

[jbk1234]

David Aldridge saying the "hold up" is CHI wants Crowder in the deal with the Brooklyn 17.

Where? There's nothing on his twitter account.

Can't copy the format on my phone for some reason.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1506931&start=1200#start_here

Page 61. At the top. About the 1:50 mark

That strikes me as a really weird ask for the Bulls. A lot of Crowder's value comes from his contract and that contract is even more valuable to a win-now team than one entering a rebuild. So Crowder is worth much more the Celtics than he should to the Bulls, and yet the Bulls are insisting on him?

[BleedGreen1989]

Where? There's nothing on his twitter account.

Can't copy the format on my phone for some reason.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1506931&start=1200#start_here

Page 61. At the top. About the 1:50 mark

That strikes me as a really weird ask for the Bulls. A lot of Crowder's value comes from his contract and that contract is even more valuable to a win-now team than one entering a rebuild. So Crowder is worth much more the Celtics than he should to the Bulls, and yet the Bulls are insisting on him?

Kind of my thoughts.

Only rationale I see is if CHI doesn't want to do a full tear down and figure Crowder can give them 60% of what Jimmy does.

[jbk1234]

Can't copy the format on my phone for some reason.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1506931&start=1200#start_here

Page 61. At the top. About the 1:50 mark

That strikes me as a really weird ask for the Bulls. A lot of Crowder's value comes from his contract and that contract is even more valuable to a win-now team than one entering a rebuild. So Crowder is worth much more the Celtics than he should to the Bulls, and yet the Bulls are insisting on him?

Kind of my thoughts.

Only rationale I see is if CHI doesn't want to do a full tear down and figure Crowder can give them 60% of what Jimmy does.

Either that or they're trying to pry Brown lose and they're insisting on one or the other.

[BleedGreen1989]

That strikes me as a really weird ask for the Bulls. A lot of Crowder's value comes from his contract and that contract is even more valuable to a win-now team than one entering a rebuild. So Crowder is worth much more the Celtics than he should to the Bulls, and yet the Bulls are insisting on him?

Kind of my thoughts.

Only rationale I see is if CHI doesn't want to do a full tear down and figure Crowder can give them 60% of what Jimmy does.

Either that or they're trying to pry Brown lose and they're insisting on one or the other.

Good point.

I'm sure if the deal was just the Brooklyn pick, it'd be done by now.

[buckboy]

Bradley / Brk 17 / rights to Yabusele / Minnesota 2nd 2017

Is as high as I'd go. Bulls want more id say thanks but no thanks

Pretty much what I think. Both Brooklyn picks is crazy talk in my opinion. He's not worth that.

I really strive to be as non-bias as I can be and this is pretty much where I'm at.

I'm seeing proposals with BKN 17 AND BKN 18/Brown AND Zizic. There's just no way Butler is worth that. He's an excellent player and would seem to help Boston quite a bit, but that's just excessive in my opinion.

Of course given the Plumlee and Cousins deals, who the heck knows I guess?

[OrlandoDream]

Give them Brown, 17 Brook, and Rozier. Just do it already. Everyone knows Boston is the team that has the assets to trade for him that interest Bulls the most. Ainge needs to stop being such a cheapsh*t and GarPax needs to stop overvaluing JB.

[mademan]

Pretty much what I think. Both Brooklyn picks is crazy talk in my opinion. He's not worth that.

I really strive to be as non-bias as I can be and this is pretty much where I'm at.

I'm seeing proposals with BKN 17 AND BKN 18/Brown AND Zizic. There's just no way Butler is worth that. He's an excellent player and would seem to help Boston quite a bit, but that's just excessive in my opinion.

Of course given the Plumlee and Cousins deals, who the heck knows I guess?

Because draft picks often get overrated. You can comb through the last 10 draft, and out of 30 players in the top 3 picks, maybe 10 of them have been as good/better than Butler. Thats not a good strike rate, at all. To me, fair value is either both picks or 17pick+Butler. It's hard to get a guy as good Butler; to get a guy as good as him, as young as him, no locker room issues and signed long term....normally impossible, only made possible by the cache of assets the Celtics have

[cellar-door]

I think something like this is interesting. Probably less than CHI wants, but... what you get for a star usually is:

Butler
Portis

Crowder
18 BKN
Zeller (just an expiring salary fill)
Jackson
any 2 of (rights to Yabu, 2018 BOS, 2019 MEM, 2019 LAC)

My thought process is this:
CHI supposedly wants 2017 BKN and Crowder, but BOS won't budge on that.
So CHI pushes back the Brooklyn pick, adds the rebounding bench big Boston needs, and in return they get 2 more mid-late 1sts (or Yabu who is the equivalent) and roll the dice on Jackson as a rotation PG.
Might need a little tweaking around the edges, but that to me seems like the kind of deal that is most likely to get done.

Now, maybe that means Butler goes nowhere this deadline, which I think is likely, but I just don't see Ainge based on how he's always operated giving up 2 of Brown/2017 BKN/2018 BKN.

If he was going to bite on that deal it was at the draft, now that BKN basically has locked in the best lottery odds, and Brown has progressed well (and Jimmy has less time under contract left) I don't see why he changes his mind. Especially given the dearth of other teams able to top his offer. If CHI is looking to get Crowder, I would guess it isn't just for re-trade value, it's that they see this as a quick turnaround.

[jbk1234]

I think something like this is interesting. Probably less than CHI wants, but... what you get for a star usually is:

Butler
Portis

Crowder
18 BKN
Zeller (just an expiring salary fill)
Jackson
any 2 of (rights to Yabu, 2018 BOS, 2019 MEM, 2019 LAC)

My thought process is this:
CHI supposedly wants 2017 BKN and Crowder, but BOS won't budge on that.
So CHI pushes back the Brooklyn pick, adds the rebounding bench big Boston needs, and in return they get 2 more mid-late 1sts (or Yabu who is the equivalent) and roll the dice on Jackson as a rotation PG.
Might need a little tweaking around the edges, but that to me seems like the kind of deal that is most likely to get done.

Now, maybe that means Butler goes nowhere this deadline, which I think is likely, but I just don't see Ainge based on how he's always operated giving up 2 of Brown/2017 BKN/2018 BKN.

If he was going to bite on that deal it was at the draft, now that BKN basically has locked in the best lottery odds, and Brown has progressed well (and Jimmy has less time under contract left) I don't see why he changes his mind. Especially given the dearth of other teams able to top his offer. If CHI is looking to get Crowder, I would guess it isn't just for re-trade value, it's that they see this as a quick turnaround.

So long as Butler stays healthy, there's a very good chance he is more expensive on draft day and not less.

Part of the value to the Bulls in trading him now is there own pick falls into the lottery. Once the deadline passes, that's no longer an option.

On draft day, the Bulls can see where everyone is picking - including teams like the Wolves and Suns. They can see who slips. Meanwhile the Celtics are looking at drafting yet another guard which is their deepest position with a top-3 pick. How excited is Ainge going to be to do that with IT, AB, & Smart all coming into the last year of their contracts? Finally, and this is really the big risk for the Celtics IMO, GarPax could get canned and you could have a different GM making that trade.

[BR0D1E86]

Bradley / Brk 17 / rights to Yabusele / Minnesota 2nd 2017

Is as high as I'd go. Bulls want more id say thanks but no thanks

Pretty much what I think. Both Brooklyn picks is crazy talk in my opinion. He's not worth that.

I think he is worth it, but I'd lose my mind as a Boston fan if they traded both. Change that Minnesota 2nd to the Memphis 1st and that's where I'd draw my line in the sand as a Bulls fan.

[DowJones]

Off-topic but if Butler is traded then would Chicago release Wade, assuming Wade agrees to waive his player-option for next year? I can't imagine Wade would want to play in a total re-building effort and I can't imagine Chicago would want to keep Wade and hurt their mini-tank for the rest of the year.

Wade gets released and inevitably ends up in Cleveland to help the Cavs go against the W's.

[buckboy]

I really strive to be as non-bias as I can be and this is pretty much where I'm at.

I'm seeing proposals with BKN 17 AND BKN 18/Brown AND Zizic. There's just no way Butler is worth that. He's an excellent player and would seem to help Boston quite a bit, but that's just excessive in my opinion.

Of course given the Plumlee and Cousins deals, who the heck knows I guess?

Because draft picks often get overrated. You can comb through the last 10 draft, and out of 30 players in the top 3 picks, maybe 10 of them have been as good/better than Butler. Thats not a good strike rate, at all. To me, fair value is either both picks or 17pick+Butler. It's hard to get a guy as good Butler; to get a guy as good as him, as young as him, no locker room issues and signed long term....normally impossible, only made possible by the cache of assets the Celtics have

Chicago is taking a risk though, assuming they want the Boston package. If Boston wins the lottery, I think it's going to be like 1 straight up for Butler. Maybe with Smart. If I'm Boston I'm keeping Fultz and trading my other guards.

Of course we don't know that now, so I think there needs to be assets with the 17 pick just due to the uncertainty. I just don't believe those assets are as big as 18 or Brown. If Chicago demanded Zizic I'd bite if I'm Boston but that's about all I'd add.

It should be interesting to see.

[jbk1234]

Off-topic but if Butler is traded then would Chicago release Wade, assuming Wade agrees to waive his player-option for next year? I can't imagine Wade would want to play in a total re-building effort and I can't imagine Chicago would want to keep Wade and hurt their mini-tank for the rest of the year.

Wade gets released and inevitably ends up in Cleveland to help the Cavs go against the W's.

Wade would have to take a pretty significant discount. They're not going to pay him roughly $8 million so he can play for another team.

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics are on pace for 53 wins, max cap space and a Top 4 pick in the draft. Celtics are not desperate to do anything. If Butler price is too high the Celtics just pass. No big deal.

[brackdan70]

Most of these proposals undervalluing Butler, this isn't the Kings you are dealing with. Start with Brown + BKN 2017 pick

I honestly think if it takes both it won't happen. I would consider Zeller, Brown, and 2017 Brooklyn for Butler, but I don't think Ainge will.

[DowJones]

Off-topic but if Butler is traded then would Chicago release Wade, assuming Wade agrees to waive his player-option for next year? I can't imagine Wade would want to play in a total re-building effort and I can't imagine Chicago would want to keep Wade and hurt their mini-tank for the rest of the year.

Wade gets released and inevitably ends up in Cleveland to help the Cavs go against the W's.

Wade would have to take a pretty significant discount. They're not going to pay him roughly $8 million so he can play for another team.

Well the rub is that he opts-out of the final year. Thst is the benefit Chicago gets. If they trade Butler then they certainly wouldn't want Wade opting-in for $25 million.

[pipfan]

I have been saying the fair deal for weeks Butler/Taj for Zeller, Jonas, Brown, BRK 2017, Memphis 2019

Bradley becomes awesome 6th man, Taj would help a ton at the 4. Boston gets to the Finals

Bulls then deal Lopez and Wade (if possible) and pick top 4 and then 7-10. Sac is almost for sure a no go now-but who knows, maybe those guys rally and stay 11-14.

[nynj2k]

CELTICS GET F Jimmy Butler & F Taj Gibson

BULLS GET F Jae Crowder, G Avery Bradley, F Amir Johnson, Nets 2017 1st Rd pick, a 2019 1st Rd pick, and multiple 2nd Rd picks.

BREAKDOWN
-Celtics: Besides getting the star they want in Butler they get an upgrade at PF with Taj Gibson. This trade should guarantee Boston the 2nd spot and be a real threat to Cleveland.
-Bulls: Get a couple of pretty good players in Crowder and Bradley, a decent player in Johnson who has an expiring contract of $12M which gives Chicago nice cap space this summer and draft picks.