What's Terry Rozier worth?

[pacers33granger]

What don't you like about his game? He plays good defense has a good handle (3-1 Assist to TO) and is not a liablilty on offense by any means. they guy has played 1500 min in spurts due to Smart and Turner also being on the team. Why you don't think he could be a starter. Right no he could start on the Nets, Philly, Sac, and I think Orlando and Detroit would be better off with him. But never mind starter, we are talking about a pick for a guy who will be a top 8 player on a team and get 20 min a night and makes 2mil - that is worth an early 2nd?

Of those teams I'd say he would start only on Philly, though maybe not even as Mcconnell has shown more so far.

You say he plays good defense, but players shot 3.2% better than average when guarded by him last season and that was primarily backup guards. I think he has the potential to be a good defender, but the stats indicate that he's not yet.

And he is most definitely a liability on offense right now. 47 TS% is horrific, as is 100 ORtg. Right now he definitely hurts the team on offense. For reference, Elfrid Payton shot 52 TS% with a 107 ORtg and many consider him to hurt the offense outside of his passing ability.

Rozier isn't as bad as people thought he would be when drafted and may have a place in the league, but he's far from a starter and it's not certain that he's a top 8 guy yet either.

[lakerhater]

What don't you like about his game? He plays good defense has a good handle (3-1 Assist to TO) and is not a liablilty on offense by any means. they guy has played 1500 min in spurts due to Smart and Turner also being on the team. Why you don't think he could be a starter. Right no he could start on the Nets, Philly, Sac, and I think Orlando and Detroit would be better off with him. But never mind starter, we are talking about a pick for a guy who will be a top 8 player on a team and get 20 min a night and makes 2mil - that is worth an early 2nd?

Of those teams I'd say he would start only on Philly, though maybe not even as Mcconnell has shown more so far.

You say he plays good defense, but players shot 3.2% better than average when guarded by him last season and that was primarily backup guards. I think he has the potential to be a good defender, but the stats indicate that he's not yet.

And he is most definitely a liability on offense right now. 47 TS% is horrific, as is 100 ORtg. Right now he definitely hurts the team on offense. For reference, Elfrid Payton shot 52 TS% with a 107 ORtg and many consider him to hurt the offense outside of his passing ability.

Rozier isn't as bad as people thought he would be when drafted and may have a place in the league, but he's far from a starter and it's not certain that he's a top 8 guy yet either.

So, I didn't say this. Please edit or delete this post. Thanks.

[pacers33granger]

So, I didn't say this. Please edit or delete this post. Thanks.

Not sure how that one happened. Edited.

[sarcasma]

Whoever said Rozier for Kyle O Quinn....I like that.

[lakerhater]

What don't you like about his game? He plays good defense has a good handle (3-1 Assist to TO) and is not a liablilty on offense by any means. they guy has played 1500 min in spurts due to Smart and Turner also being on the team. Why you don't think he could be a starter. Right no he could start on the Nets, Philly, Sac, and I think Orlando and Detroit would be better off with him. But never mind starter, we are talking about a pick for a guy who will be a top 8 player on a team and get 20 min a night and makes 2mil - that is worth an early 2nd?

Of those teams I'd say he would start only on Philly, though maybe not even as Mcconnell has shown more so far.

You say he plays good defense, but players shot 3.2% better than average when guarded by him last season and that was primarily backup guards. I think he has the potential to be a good defender, but the stats indicate that he's not yet.

And he is most definitely a liability on offense right now. 47 TS% is horrific, as is 100 ORtg. Right now he definitely hurts the team on offense. For reference, Elfrid Payton shot 52 TS% with a 107 ORtg and many consider him to hurt the offense outside of his passing ability.

Rozier isn't as bad as people thought he would be when drafted and may have a place in the league, but he's far from a starter and it's not certain that he's a top 8 guy yet either.

This is the player I see too. Rozier looks like a guy who might become a plus defender with more refinement but his offense is so poor at this point it's debatable he becomes anything more than a middle of the road backup PG.

I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick in this draft for him.

[HotelVitale]

What don't you like about his game? He plays good defense has a good handle (3-1 Assist to TO) and is not a liablilty on offense by any means. they guy has played 1500 min in spurts due to Smart and Turner also being on the team. Why you don't think he could be a starter. Right no he could start on the Nets, Philly, Sac, and I think Orlando and Detroit would be better off with him. But never mind starter, we are talking about a pick for a guy who will be a top 8 player on a team and get 20 min a night and makes 2mil - that is worth an early 2nd?

The answer to your first question is that he's been a bad basketball player. He's a fairly huge liability on offense now due to his efficiency (his 46% TS is one of the worst among all rotation players in the NBA), and as the other guy mentioned he produces the least amount of assists per minute for a PG. I was being generous with his improvement, partly to keep the homers at bay and partly cuz I like his size and quickness and could see that going somewhere. But he was a bad NBA player this year by any measure and you'd need to twist and spin everything about him to make that false.

Also, since I'm a Philly fan--our starter this year was TJ McConnell, who was an undrafted guy who's obviously a boring placeholder. McConnell also had a 3:1 asst:TO but produced about 3 times as many assists per minute as Rozier, and he also scored more efficiently and had significantly better defensive numbers. I get how you might look at him and think 'Rozier's probably better than him' but the evidence says that even an totally blah player last year was a lot better than Rozier. And Jeremy Lin and Darren Collison were easily much much better than him last year too, shouldn't need to argue that.

[patman52]

What don't you like about his game? He plays good defense has a good handle (3-1 Assist to TO) and is not a liablilty on offense by any means. they guy has played 1500 min in spurts due to Smart and Turner also being on the team. Why you don't think he could be a starter. Right no he could start on the Nets, Philly, Sac, and I think Orlando and Detroit would be better off with him. But never mind starter, we are talking about a pick for a guy who will be a top 8 player on a team and get 20 min a night and makes 2mil - that is worth an early 2nd?

The answer to your first question is that he's been a bad basketball player. He's a fairly huge liability on offense now due to his efficiency (his 46% TS is one of the worst among all rotation players in the NBA), and as the other guy mentioned he produces the least amount of assists per minute for a PG. I was being generous with his improvement, partly to keep the homers at bay and partly cuz I like his size and quickness and could see that going somewhere. But he was a bad NBA player this year by any measure and you'd need to twist and spin everything about him to make that false.

Also, since I'm a Philly fan--our starter this year was TJ McConnell, who was an undrafted guy who's obviously a boring placeholder. McConnell also had a 3:1 asst:TO but produced about 3 times as many assists per minute as Rozier, and he also scored more efficiently and had significantly better defensive numbers. I get how you might look at him and think 'Rozier's probably better than him' but the evidence says that even an totally blah player last year was a lot better than Rozier. And Jeremy Lin and Darren Collison were easily much much better than him last year too, shouldn't need to argue that.

And Rozier's upside is much greater than those 3. And nobody even mentions rozier's board work. I see the kid play and play on a winning team. And this assist per min- means a lot less when Rozier is playing off the ball in the way the celts play he is practically on the court with another point guard all the time.

Again, my post is in response to the idea that his worth is a 2nd rd pick.

[jayjaysee]

I'm siding with Patman and brackdon actually. Boston doesn't need any immediate help in return for him and will be adding enough rookies (assuming their euros come over) this year.

2019 or 2020 first. Call it Milwaukee. Top 20, lottery, lottery, 2nds.


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[lakerhater]

Can someone add a poll so we can all vote on his current value? Seems like a hot topic on this board right now.

[HotelVitale]

I'm siding with Patman and brackdon actually. Boston doesn't need any immediate help in return for him and will be adding enough rookies (assuming their euros come over) this year. 2019 or 2020 first. Call it Milwaukee. Top 20, lottery, lottery, 2nds.

Not following your logic--his value goes up like 20 spots because BOS doesn't need to trade him?

I have nothing against him but I'm totally baffled as to what the case is that he's worth a 1st rounder. He's already 23 years old and he was bad the last two years, and he was widely seen as a bubble 1st rounder to begin with two years ago. He's not huge or an amazing athlete or passer or shooter or anything where it seems like he's inches from breaking out. What's the case for anyone trading a 1st rounder to get him?

[patman52]

I'm siding with Patman and brackdon actually. Boston doesn't need any immediate help in return for him and will be adding enough rookies (assuming their euros come over) this year. 2019 or 2020 first. Call it Milwaukee. Top 20, lottery, lottery, 2nds.

Not following your logic--his value goes up like 20 spots because BOS doesn't need to trade him?

I have nothing against him but I'm totally baffled as to what the case is that he's worth a 1st rounder. He's already 23 years old and he was bad the last two years, and he was widely seen as a bubble 1st rounder to begin with two years ago. He's not huge or an amazing athlete or passer or shooter or anything where it seems like he's inches from breaking out. What's the case for anyone trading a 1st rounder to get him?

There is "no case" for him and no one is thinking his value increases by 20 spots. A couple of fans of other teams thought he was worth a late 1st, and no one said anything about getting close to the lottery. Say from 36 to 16. Myself and another poster said a top 20 protected 1st two or three years down the road, is the ideal value spot for him. Every year you wait on a pick should be worth 4 to 6 spots. So you wait two years or longer and get a first when the celts need a first and a team gets rozier .

[FutureKnicksGM]

They need to move Yabusele as well to open up some more cap. Rozier & Yabu for a future first (top 15 protected).

Maybe San Antonio? Milwaukee?

[jayjaysee]

I'm siding with Patman and brackdon actually. Boston doesn't need any immediate help in return for him and will be adding enough rookies (assuming their euros come over) this year. 2019 or 2020 first. Call it Milwaukee. Top 20, lottery, lottery, 2nds.

Not following your logic--his value goes up like 20 spots because BOS doesn't need to trade him?

I have nothing against him but I'm totally baffled as to what the case is that he's worth a 1st rounder. He's already 23 years old and he was bad the last two years, and he was widely seen as a bubble 1st rounder to begin with two years ago. He's not huge or an amazing athlete or passer or shooter or anything where it seems like he's inches from breaking out. What's the case for anyone trading a 1st rounder to get him?

There is "no case" for him and no one is thinking his value increases by 20 spots. A couple of fans of other teams thought he was worth a late 1st, and no one said anything about getting close to the lottery. Say from 36 to 16. Myself and another poster said a top 20 protected 1st two or three years down the road, is the ideal value spot for him. Every year you wait on a pick should be worth 4 to 6 spots. So you wait two years or longer and get a first when the celts need a first and a team gets rozier .

Yeah, pretty much this.

I think Rozier has proven that he is an NBA player?.. Which makes him worth a good second in my opinion.. If he spent the last two years fighting for minutes in Philly or fighting to be a backup PG on a team without depth, then I'd say he's only worth a second given his 6/2 or whatever. But him being buried behind really good players.. I think he still has some mystique which is why I value him more.

And the protections everyone has suggested stop the pick from ever becoming a huge asset..

[Homerclease]

They need to move Yabusele as well to open up some more cap. Rozier & Yabu for a future first (top 15 protected).

Maybe San Antonio? Milwaukee?

No, they don't. They can just stash yabu in Europe another year if they want.

[lakerhater]

Not following your logic--his value goes up like 20 spots because BOS doesn't need to trade him?

I have nothing against him but I'm totally baffled as to what the case is that he's worth a 1st rounder. He's already 23 years old and he was bad the last two years, and he was widely seen as a bubble 1st rounder to begin with two years ago. He's not huge or an amazing athlete or passer or shooter or anything where it seems like he's inches from breaking out. What's the case for anyone trading a 1st rounder to get him?

There is "no case" for him and no one is thinking his value increases by 20 spots. A couple of fans of other teams thought he was worth a late 1st, and no one said anything about getting close to the lottery. Say from 36 to 16. Myself and another poster said a top 20 protected 1st two or three years down the road, is the ideal value spot for him. Every year you wait on a pick should be worth 4 to 6 spots. So you wait two years or longer and get a first when the celts need a first and a team gets rozier .

Yeah, pretty much this.

I think Rozier has proven that he is an NBA player?.. Which makes him worth a good second in my opinion.. If he spent the last two years fighting for minutes in Philly or fighting to be a backup PG on a team without depth, then I'd say he's only worth a second given his 6/2 or whatever. But him being buried behind really good players.. I think he still has some mystique which is why I value him more.

And the protections everyone has suggested stop the pick from ever becoming a huge asset..

He's played enough minutes in his career to show us he's a poor shooter who doesn't create much for others. More of a small combo guard then a PG. I don't see any mystique here.

[Homerclease]

There is "no case" for him and no one is thinking his value increases by 20 spots. A couple of fans of other teams thought he was worth a late 1st, and no one said anything about getting close to the lottery. Say from 36 to 16. Myself and another poster said a top 20 protected 1st two or three years down the road, is the ideal value spot for him. Every year you wait on a pick should be worth 4 to 6 spots. So you wait two years or longer and get a first when the celts need a first and a team gets rozier .

Yeah, pretty much this.

I think Rozier has proven that he is an NBA player?.. Which makes him worth a good second in my opinion.. If he spent the last two years fighting for minutes in Philly or fighting to be a backup PG on a team without depth, then I'd say he's only worth a second given his 6/2 or whatever. But him being buried behind really good players.. I think he still has some mystique which is why I value him more.

And the protections everyone has suggested stop the pick from ever becoming a huge asset..

He's played enough minutes in his career to show us he's a poor shooter who doesn't create much for others. More of a small combo guard then a PG. I don't see any mystique here.

He's a better shooter than the numbers would suggest IMO, terrible at finishing around the basket right now though. Still very raw but flashes why he should be in this league. Trading him now is trading him at 10 cents on the dollar.

[lakerhater]

Yeah, pretty much this.

I think Rozier has proven that he is an NBA player?.. Which makes him worth a good second in my opinion.. If he spent the last two years fighting for minutes in Philly or fighting to be a backup PG on a team without depth, then I'd say he's only worth a second given his 6/2 or whatever. But him being buried behind really good players.. I think he still has some mystique which is why I value him more.

And the protections everyone has suggested stop the pick from ever becoming a huge asset..

He's played enough minutes in his career to show us he's a poor shooter who doesn't create much for others. More of a small combo guard then a PG. I don't see any mystique here.

He's a better shooter than the numbers would suggest IMO, terrible at finishing around the basket right now though. Still very raw but flashes why he should be in this league. Trading him now is trading him at 10 cents on the dollar.

The numbers suggest he's a poor shooter. Outside of 2 decent three point shooting months this season he was a below 30% shooter from distance. That's just nowhere near good enough when, as you stated, he struggles to finish around the basket.

[pacers33granger]

He's a better shooter than the numbers would suggest IMO, terrible at finishing around the basket right now though. Still very raw but flashes why he should be in this league. Trading him now is trading him at 10 cents on the dollar.

What exactly makes him a better shooter than shown? The stats say that he shoots poorly from everywhere, so it's not exactly weighed down by poor finishing. The stats actually say he shoots best from 0-3 feet (47%). And he shot relatively poorly in college too.

Is it his form? Having to play a game that's not suited to his style? Or do you more mean that he's not a good shooter, but not a 37% shooter either?

[FutureKnicksGM]

They need to move Yabusele as well to open up some more cap. Rozier & Yabu for a future first (top 15 protected).

Maybe San Antonio? Milwaukee?

No, they don't. They can just stash yabu in Europe another year if they want.

Your right they could do that, but I would assume that Yabu & his team would oppose his delaying his nba pay check again.

[Mujahydeen]

So people are turning down 1st rounders for 6ppg and 2 assist on poor efficiency? Got it

Don't be that guy. Contribute something meaningful or don't post.

The obvious answer is they are preparing to potentially deal some of their backcourt this summer in pursuit of a star and might need some cheap end of rotation depth. He knows the system and has been playing so he's a better option than some rookie for a team with high aspirations.

I'd deal him, but I understand the above logic as well.

That is contributing, he isnt worth a first rounder and im not the first guy in this thread to say so. Maybe u dont like my opinion or have i stated it, but the idea that an end of the bench inefficient 3rd string pg is worth a first is a joke

It's not though, Rozier has proven to be a rotational player in a decent team, with some upside at the age of 23, while historically non-lottery picks in the draft give you less than 50% chance of getting a rotational player. If a team has a need for a backup guard liek Rozier, they would be getting value trading 20-30th pick for him.