[Woj] Rockets get Shawn Long for 100k and 2018 2nd

[ckchen]

Great point.

Also, I'm not keeping track of outgoing money - but it's also possible that Morey ran out of money to send out as well, right?

Also entirely possible, we won't know until we see the numbers (if we ever do).

I wonder if he approached the Jazz and asked them "say, can we have Raul Neto so we can get Chris Paul and Paul George? Here's a 2nd rounder in 2021" and Lindsay told him to walk west until his hat floats

I have a feeling he probably went to any team that had an nonguaranteed minimum type salary and offered up the same deal until he ran out of cash. Like maybe $750k a piece. That would be enough for him to make 7 of these deals, with some spare change leftover to make that Philly deal.

[rpa]

Houston is actually giving up an asset here. My guess is they're keeping him, unless the Clips really wanted him for some reason.

EDIT -- this is probably wrong. See ckchen's posts below for more plausible explanation.

Yeah, they probably are, but that doesn't change the fact that a little pee probably came out when he saw Morey's name come up on his phone.

[HartfordWhalers]

I can just imagine these guys with non-guaranteed contracts getting a phone call, seeing Daryl Morey on caller-ID, and yelling NOOOOOOOOO

Houston is actually giving up an asset here. My guess is they're keeping him, unless the Clips really wanted him for some reason.

EDIT -- this is probably wrong. See ckchen's posts below for more plausible explanation.

They had enough bodies for the trade. He was really good in his limited minutes -- 8 and 4.7 in 13 mpg.

I think they are keeping him, because otherwise they have a pretty skeleton roster. But all the other players are guys about to be cut. Long wasn't, and he has 2 more cheap unguaranteed years.

The cheapest 2nd rounder went for 1m sold last deadline (#52), so a 2nd rounder here is a lot more than should have gone out in any other trade.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Long looked pretty good in his extremely limited time on the court

[HartfordWhalers]

Added a poll.

Amazing that Philly got a legit 2nd (although the difference between a Hou 2nd and a top 55 protected 2nd isn't that big) and some cash for a guy signed in March after a 10 day contract.
And yet I like it for Houston.

[K_chile22]

I can just imagine these guys with non-guaranteed contracts getting a phone call, seeing Daryl Morey on caller-ID, and yelling NOOOOOOOOO

Houston is actually giving up an asset here. My guess is they're keeping him, unless the Clips really wanted him for some reason.

EDIT -- this is probably wrong. See ckchen's posts below for more plausible explanation.

They had enough bodies for the trade. He was really good in his limited minutes -- 8 and 4.7 in 13 mpg.

I think they are keeping him, because otherwise they have a pretty skeleton roster. But all the other players are guys about to be cut. Long wasn't, and he has 2 more cheap unguaranteed years.

The cheapest 2nd rounder went for 1m sold last deadline (#52), so a 2nd rounder here is a lot more than should have gone out in any other trade.

IDK, he played at center mostly right? Because they already have Nanu, and Qi on the team with Hartenstein coming over next year and that's a lot of young centers

[pacers33granger]

I recall him having a pretty good game against us one time when Embiid was out. Would not be shocked if he's next in the long line of cheap and decent backup centers Houston always seems to have.

[K_chile22]

Was he any good defensively?

[Lovetron Joe]

Was he any good defensively?

He was good at fouling.

[HartfordWhalers]

Also, I'm not keeping track of outgoing money - but it's also possible that Morey ran out of money to send out as well, right?

Also entirely possible, we won't know until we see the numbers (if we ever do).

I wonder if he approached the Jazz and asked them "say, can we have Raul Neto so we can get Chris Paul and Paul George? Here's a 2nd rounder in 2021" and Lindsay told him to walk west until his hat floats

I have a feeling he probably went to any team that had an nonguaranteed minimum type salary and offered up the same deal until he ran out of cash. Like maybe $750k a piece. That would be enough for him to make 7 of these deals, with some spare change leftover to make that Philly deal.

Deals made were for:
661k in Paul trade
75k for Kelly
100k for Quarterman
175k for Liggins
1m for Hillard
100k and Hou 2nd for Long
? for Uthoff

Houston paid 2,111,000 + Uthoff.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Also entirely possible, we won't know until we see the numbers (if we ever do).

I wonder if he approached the Jazz and asked them "say, can we have Raul Neto so we can get Chris Paul and Paul George? Here's a 2nd rounder in 2021" and Lindsay told him to walk west until his hat floats

I have a feeling he probably went to any team that had an nonguaranteed minimum type salary and offered up the same deal until he ran out of cash. Like maybe $750k a piece. That would be enough for him to make 7 of these deals, with some spare change leftover to make that Philly deal.

Deals made were for:
661k in Paul trade
75k for Kelly
100k for Quarterman
175k for Liggins
1m for Hillard
100k and Hou 2nd for Long
? for Uthoff

Houston paid 2,111,000 + Uthoff.

You can't use cash to match difference in salary?

[HartfordWhalers]

I have a feeling he probably went to any team that had an nonguaranteed minimum type salary and offered up the same deal until he ran out of cash. Like maybe $750k a piece. That would be enough for him to make 7 of these deals, with some spare change leftover to make that Philly deal.

Deals made were for:
661k in Paul trade
75k for Kelly
100k for Quarterman
175k for Liggins
1m for Hillard
100k and Hou 2nd for Long
? for Uthoff

Houston paid 2,111,000 + Uthoff.

You can't use cash to match difference in salary?

Correct. It counts as zero salary same as draft picks or rights to players who aren't signed yet.
For everyone but Uthoff Houston used cap space to absorb them. For Uthoff, Houston used the min salary exception where you can absorb a minimum salary player and ignore matching salaries.

[HartfordWhalers]

For those interested, some takes from the Sixers board on why it may be a (probabilistic) win for Houston:

Leave no stone unturned.

Did you guys learn nothing from Hinkie? Covington and Whiteside were once 15th men too. I was skeptical about Long when we brought him in, but the dude absolutely crushed it last season. When someone puts up production like that, I want to see more. Disregarding him simply because he's the 15th man is some trash tier roster evaluation.

Yep.

If Bolden puts up similar stats its a win for the pick of Bolden. If the 57th pick in next draft ever plays a single minute in the NBA for the Sixers, it would be a win.

There are two opposite ways of looking at it:
Sixers picked up a random dude in March and flipped him for cash and a 2nd -- big win.
Sixers flipped a guy producing at Long's stats and sold him off for a very very late 2nd -- a loss

This forum would obviously be irate if Covington was sold for a 2nd rounder based off he was acquired for free.

That said, Long's stats are still really small sample. So, more time is needed to determine if he is the player he looked to be and it was a loss, or if he actually is a 10 contract caliber player and it was a win.

For now, Houston bought that upside gamble at a cheap price. I have that a Houston win (and a Philly loss).

That said, Long's stats are still really small sample. So, more time is needed to determine if he is the player he looked to be and it was a loss, or if he actually is a 10 contract caliber player and it was a win.

Dleague stats

21ppg
11.2rpg
1.3bpg
.578% true shooting
24.0 Player Eff Rating

in 29.5 minutes per game (39 games played)

If he wasn't nearly at the same level of productivity in the Dleague maybe his 18 game NBA stint could be written off. I think it's kind of hard to. Like you said, this is the fanbase that watched Covington picked out of the dleague. Hard to see how Long is written off so quick when he came in killing it twice as hard.



Also he played 8 summer league games for you guys and was the 3rd most productive per minute guy in summer league

Summer league (8 games)

Per 36

25.3 ppg
9.7 rpg
3.5 bpg
1.0 spg
2.4 3's per game
.583 FG%


I don't know how many times and places the guy has to murder it to get more believers really.

If what he did was one off fine. But he has another almost 50 games vs Dleague and Summer League he was doing the same thing.

If he only ends up being 2/3rds of what he's shown he's a top 100 player probably in the NBA and is only 24 years old.

How does this topic still live??

Because apparently, to some, Shawn Long was going to be a major part of our squad for years to come.

I think Shawn Long has a better chance at becoming a valuable contributor than a ~55th pick + cash.

[HartfordWhalers]

Or put succinctly, Houston may have traded a 1 in 20 chance of finding a rotation player for a 1 in 8 chance. Odds may be both don't matter, but based off what Long has shown and how awful Hou's 2nd rounder should be, they just upgraded a long shot bet.

For Philly, the saving grace would be they look to have a roster spot crunch to use on these bets. Although McConnell was the 21st man on a 20 man spring training roster (they cut someone the night before camp opened to add him), and that turned out to work out very well for Philly.

[TTP]

Pretty surprising that I'm the only person in here that thinks this is a win for Houston. Long was an absolute crusher in his limited sample of minutes as a UDFA rookie. He crushed D League too. I'd happily spend an early-mid 2nd on him, knowing what I know about him now, much less a pick that's likely going to he around 55.

[K_chile22]

You guys made me do some research on him the other day, and now I'd like to keep him, but im fairly certain if they can get a proven player using his salary they'll do it in a second

[ckchen]

I have a feeling he probably went to any team that had an nonguaranteed minimum type salary and offered up the same deal until he ran out of cash. Like maybe $750k a piece. That would be enough for him to make 7 of these deals, with some spare change leftover to make that Philly deal.

Deals made were for:
661k in Paul trade
75k for Kelly
100k for Quarterman
175k for Liggins
1m for Hillard
100k and Hou 2nd for Long
? for Uthoff

Houston paid 2,111,000 + Uthoff.

You can't use cash to match difference in salary?

That is actually insane for how little money they ended paying for these guys. That said, in the case of Kelly, Quarterman, and Liggins at least, they were all about to be waived anyway, so I guess those teams just figured, hey take a little money for something they weren't going to bother anyway.

It makes sense then, that he still had all of that money. I realize now, this was all part of 2016-2017 money so he only had 3.5M to spend. Assuming they don't make any more last minute deals, I imagine a decent chunk of the 1.3 whatever went to Dallas in that Uthoff deal.

[HartfordWhalers]

Pretty surprising that I'm the only person in here that thinks this is a win for Houston. Long was an absolute crusher in his limited sample of minutes as a UDFA rookie. He crushed D League too. I'd happily spend an early-mid 2nd on him, knowing what I know about him now, much less a pick that's likely going to he around 55.

I voted both and then regretted it and not a straight Houston vote.

It is hard because I expect Colangelo to squander assets -- here just cutting Long -- so squandering them less than expected feels sort of like a win.

[12footrim]

Long looked pretty good in his extremely limited time on the court

The actually had the 13th highest Rookie Player Eff Rating in NBA history of anyone that played over 15 games. Most of the others were like Wilt, Jordan, David Robinson etc.

his PER 36's

22.8ppg
13.1rpg
2.0apg
1.4spg
1.4bpg
1.1 three at .368%
56% FG

24.1 PER



Granted it was only 18 games but you can look at it a couple of ways. Most Rookies don't walk in through the front door in just put up a 23 and 13 high eff minute rate from minute one. Usually they have to work their way in. As the other guy re posted other comments, he was just as productive in the Dleague and Summer League. Hard to write him off as a fluke just because the sample is pretty small when he's highly productive in about 50 other high level pro games too.

I'm not a Philly fan, my read of the situation is Morey was in transaction mode and like this guy and used what he was doing with Paul and the fluffer contracts as a smoke screen to get this guy cheap. Knowing he likes anayltics I think he liked this guys potiental personally and keeps him.

[12footrim]

Was he any good defensively?

He was good at fouling.

He was playing for his NBA life and career to earn a spot, got to imagine he was going 110% hard. I'm sure that can easily be addressed. He didn't have a foul problem anywhere else like the Dleague.

Millsap doctrine study says once players get security and more defined rolls not looking over their shoulders worried about getting pulled, coming off the bench randomly cold etc, they actually perform better with more minutes too.

His Defensive real plus minus was #182 in the NBA and #30 of the PF's. Not to bad for a guy trying to adjust to the NBA in his first 18 games. Can play both post positions as well.