What should the bulls do in the offseason?

[pipfan]

Cry.

They waited too long to do anything useful. Lavine is now a negative contract, DDR is a UFA, and Caruso is now an expiring facing a big payday instead of 2-3 years left on a bargain deal. Chicago is easily a bottom 3 situation in the league moving forward.

On the plus side your pro- & amateur- scouts seem to be pretty good. So despite your pick deficit you're able to pick up good players. Sucks that ownership is content to cash in on a non-tax play-in team as long as people keep filling the UC, but I do think there's talent in your FO. They just haven't been able to work on a coherent plan since Lonzo broke.

Things are bleak. Our team right now is VERY mediocre, but likeable at least (for the most part)
But, we should have blown it up last trade deadline-we'd be MUCH closer to having a 50 win team than now. We might be in the worst spot in the league, if making the Conference Finals is the goal. I honestly can't think of one team farther away from being a contender than us, baring some miracle luck

[Dan Z]

But if Chicago isn’t tanking and wants to keep on believing…I think you have to be willing to at least start the season pretty far over the tax given the lack of a true superstar.

You have to trade for an upgrade at forward. Could be the 2024 first and Lonzo for Kuzma or Grant.. That should be the top bid, right? But you could probably pull it off with the Portland first and a really strongly protected 2027 first and keep the 2024 pick? Say lottery protected in 2027, top 10 in 2028, top 8 on 2029, then a second? Seems like a real package to sell a fan base on getting “two firsts”

Then you have to outbid Philly and whoever else to keep Demar. Say you add a season to keep the yearly lower?

Then for whatever reason, I’m still offering Patrick Williams 15 a year.. if he can find a 20+ million deal, then let them have him and you no longer have tax issues..

And we want to keep Drummond.

No calculator, but I’m thinking that group is over the apron. If in December/January, you’re not slated in the play-in.. you hopefully can get some kind of value for a few of your top 8 players and make Pipfan happy at that point and clear the tax..

They've said that they'll pay the tax only if the team is a contender. Right now it looks like the Bulls will finish in 9th place, which means no tax.

[JRoy]

Cry.

They waited too long to do anything useful. Lavine is now a negative contract, DDR is a UFA, and Caruso is now an expiring facing a big payday instead of 2-3 years left on a bargain deal. Chicago is easily a bottom 3 situation in the league moving forward.

On the plus side your pro- & amateur- scouts seem to be pretty good. So despite your pick deficit you're able to pick up good players. Sucks that ownership is content to cash in on a non-tax play-in team as long as people keep filling the UC, but I do think there's talent in your FO. They just haven't been able to work on a coherent plan since Lonzo broke.

Things are bleak. Our team right now is VERY mediocre, but likeable at least (for the most part)
But, we should have blown it up last trade deadline-we'd be MUCH closer to having a 50 win team than now. We might be in the worst spot in the league, if making the Conference Finals is the goal. I honestly can't think of one team farther away from being a contender than us, baring some miracle luck

Ownership needs to can the FO and start over.

[Pipp33]

But if Chicago isn’t tanking and wants to keep on believing…I think you have to be willing to at least start the season pretty far over the tax given the lack of a true superstar.

You have to trade for an upgrade at forward. Could be the 2024 first and Lonzo for Kuzma or Grant.. That should be the top bid, right? But you could probably pull it off with the Portland first and a really strongly protected 2027 first and keep the 2024 pick? Say lottery protected in 2027, top 10 in 2028, top 8 on 2029, then a second? Seems like a real package to sell a fan base on getting “two firsts”

Then you have to outbid Philly and whoever else to keep Demar. Say you add a season to keep the yearly lower?

Then for whatever reason, I’m still offering Patrick Williams 15 a year.. if he can find a 20+ million deal, then let them have him and you no longer have tax issues..

And we want to keep Drummond.

No calculator, but I’m thinking that group is over the apron. If in December/January, you’re not slated in the play-in.. you hopefully can get some kind of value for a few of your top 8 players and make Pipfan happy at that point and clear the tax..

Re-signing Demar will be an admission that we are happy in mediocrity.

Demar has been a good player for the Bulls, but we should have cashed in on him when he made All NBA in 21/22. That was his highest value period and with Lonzo's long term injuries, we were never going to truly compete for a good run in playoffs the following season.

Honestly feels like the Owner's and FO's goal is just to scrape into the playoffs every year.

And for fans, this is the worst place to be. No chance of a good draft pick and no chance of actually going deep in playoffs. I'd rather be the Pistons/Spurs than Bulls. At least they have some high end young players to offer hope for the future.

Coby has been a bright spot this season and Ayo is starting to play well too, but can't either of them ever being the 1st or 2nd option on a good team. Nice players to have, but not players as centerpieces of a rebuild.

[jayjaysee]

Coby has been a bright spot this season and Ayo is starting to play well too, but can't either of them ever being the 1st or 2nd option on a good team. Nice players to have, but not players as centerpieces of a rebuild.

Yeah, if Chicago was doing the right thing and doing a full rebuild.. I’d go all the way and trade Coby. He’ll have value on this nice contract and the next 2-3 years won’t matter if Chicago..

But just was trying to go opposite of the room here.

[NYG]

What does Patrick Williams sign for? 3/42?

Where does DeRozan end up? Detroit? Philly?

[NYG]

How do they get off LaVine?

[Pipp33]

How do they get off LaVine?

Can't see the Bulls getting anything in return for Lavine of note.

The goal should be to shed the money and not have to send good draft picks with him....not sure how possible that is. Don't mind taking bad money back as long as it's expiring

[DanishLakerFan]

Trapped in mediocrity and without their selection next year, what do you think or what would you do?

The Bulls haven't really been relevant since the Rose/Noah/Deng days and while most smart people would argue that teams should either be contending or rebuilding it seems like the Bulls somehow are perfectly happy being mediocre. They've signed a bunch of solid veterans that'll win them about half their games, but they have no chance at making a long playoff-run.

If i were running the show i would rebuild from the draft. The pick they owe to Spurs is protected enough that they still can bottom out, so let Demar walk or do a s/t. Then flip Vuc and AC for picks and let Lonzo and Lavine get healthy and flip them at first opportunity.

[Mike lorenzo]

Trapped in mediocrity and without their selection next year, what do you think or what would you do?

The Bulls haven't really been relevant since the Rose/Noah/Deng days and while most smart people would argue that teams should either be contending or rebuilding it seems like the Bulls somehow are perfectly happy being mediocre. They've signed a bunch of solid veterans that'll win them about half their games, but they have no chance at making a long playoff-run.

If i were running the show i would rebuild from the draft. The pick they owe to Spurs is protected enough that they still can bottom out, so let Demar walk or do a s/t. Then flip Vuc and AC for picks and let Lonzo and Lavine get healthy and flip them at first opportunity.

I understand this...but what Picks will bring back AC expiring? Vuc/DDR with his age and contract... it seems like a difficult mission, even obtaining an average FRP... in a large market and being the team with the most fans in the world (or close to it) I also understand that they cannot do a tanking exercise Thunder style, I would try to change those good players (although of little commercial value) for younger players with an advantage... Who are in difficult situations

[cgf]

On the plus side your pro- & amateur- scouts seem to be pretty good. So despite your pick deficit you're able to pick up good players. Sucks that ownership is content to cash in on a non-tax play-in team as long as people keep filling the UC, but I do think there's talent in your FO. They just haven't been able to work on a coherent plan since Lonzo broke.

Things are bleak. Our team right now is VERY mediocre, but likeable at least (for the most part)
But, we should have blown it up last trade deadline-we'd be MUCH closer to having a 50 win team than now. We might be in the worst spot in the league, if making the Conference Finals is the goal. I honestly can't think of one team farther away from being a contender than us, baring some miracle luck

Ownership needs to can the FO and start over.

I don't know that changing the FO without changing the owners...or at least the owners' priorities...would help. The Bulls FO makes a lot more sense if you assume that the priorities they are being judged by are whether they avoid the tax and the team is competent enough to keep the UC full + at least get to the play-in.

If tearing it down after Lonzo broke just wasn't an option for them, then their moves become more coherent...and the idea of a new FO being able to fix things becomes less likely unless that new FO can convince ownership to give up some of their short term profits for the longterm.

It's a bad situation that they've had to make the most of, but living in Chicago and watching them play pretty often...including being part of the problem by going to the UC when the Knicks come to town...I have come to respect the Bulls FO as talent evaluators and Donovan as a coach.

With a better plan, I think they'd have the Bulls in a good spot, I just dunno if they lack of a better plan because they can't conceive of one or because ownership won't let them pursue it.

[cgf]

What does Patrick Williams sign for? 3/42?

Where does DeRozan end up? Detroit? Philly?

Would Philly want DDR over just re-signing their guys? If not, then I see DDR back in chicago on something like 2x60M / 3x85M.

I think Pat can get 3xMLE. Might be on the upper end, but he's a very good defensive prospect who has great shooting %s. So even if his self-creation never fully manifests into PG2.0, the kid should start in this league for a long time.

[letsgobulls23]

On the plus side your pro- & amateur- scouts seem to be pretty good. So despite your pick deficit you're able to pick up good players. Sucks that ownership is content to cash in on a non-tax play-in team as long as people keep filling the UC, but I do think there's talent in your FO. They just haven't been able to work on a coherent plan since Lonzo broke.

Things are bleak. Our team right now is VERY mediocre, but likeable at least (for the most part)
But, we should have blown it up last trade deadline-we'd be MUCH closer to having a 50 win team than now. We might be in the worst spot in the league, if making the Conference Finals is the goal. I honestly can't think of one team farther away from being a contender than us, baring some miracle luck

Ownership needs to can the FO and start over.

Ownership is the real problem

[Residual-Heat]

blow it up and tank hard. Get what you can for Vuc. Re-sign Pat Williams if the contract is reasonable. Let Derozan go. Trade Caruso and White for young players/picks. Keep Ayo for now. Try to make sure the pick doesnt convey to the Spurs.

[TimeisIllmatic]

Russell + Vincent + Vanderbilt + future 1st (2029) For LaVine makes a lot of sense to me. Los Angeles replaces DLo's minutes with Lavine and otherwise moves guys who have barely played this year. Javon Carter could also go back to the Lakers.

Not happening.

[NYG]

How do they get off LaVine?

Can't see the Bulls getting anything in return for Lavine of note.

The goal should be to shed the money and not have to send good draft picks with him....not sure how possible that is. Don't mind taking bad money back as long as it's expiring

LaVine for Jordan Poole and Richaun Holmes?

[Mike lorenzo]

How do they get off LaVine?

Can't see the Bulls getting anything in return for Lavine of note.

The goal should be to shed the money and not have to send good draft picks with him....not sure how possible that is. Don't mind taking bad money back as long as it's expiring

LaVine for Jordan Poole and Richaun Holmes?

If that is Zach's value, keep him... as soon as he plays again, interested teams will open up... he is a very good player, overpaid... but oh well... wouldn't help the Nuggets more than MPJ? Or the Warriors more than Klay, Wiggins or CP3? Wouldn't the Lakers be better than what they have?

[Scoot McGroot]

What does Patrick Williams sign for? 3/42?

His QO is esssentially $13m. I can’t imagine he gives up an extra two years at the same rate.

[GoBobs]

What does Patrick Williams sign for? 3/42?

His QO is esssentially $13m. I can’t imagine he gives up an extra two years at the same rate.

Williams averages 10 pts and 4 rebs with an 11 per and a very average 55% true shooting. Dude is very average. I would offer him 8 mil per year and tell him not to let the door hit him if that doesn't work. Yeah he is 22 but the league if full of 22 year old guys and a lot of them are better than him.

Caruso needs to be extended because he knows how to play. I would offer him a Miles Turner type deal where he can increase his 25 salary if he gives you a couple more years after that at a slight discount. Something like 3 years 60 million would be hard to turn down right now given the possibility of injury in the last year of his contract. If he won't extend he needs to be traded at least before the deadline because he is an expiring contract and maybe the only Bull worth anything right now.

For most of the other guys you need to win some games in order to trade them and get something back you want.

[Scoot McGroot]

What does Patrick Williams sign for? 3/42?

His QO is esssentially $13m. I can’t imagine he gives up an extra two years at the same rate.

Williams averages 10 pts and 4 rebs with an 11 per and a very average 55% true shooting. Dude is very average. I would offer him 8 mil per year and tell him not to let the door hit him if that doesn't work. Yeah he is 22 but the league if full of 22 year old guys and a lot of them are better than him.

So he just takes the QO and an extra $5m in salary, and is then a full unrestricted free agent at years end?

Caruso needs to be extended because he knows how to play. I would offer him a Miles Turner type deal where he can increase his 25 salary if he gives you a couple more years after that at a slight discount. Something like 3 years 60 million would be hard to turn down right now given the possibility of injury in the last year of his contract. If he won't extend he needs to be traded at least before the deadline because he is an expiring contract and maybe the only Bull worth anything right now.

Chicago would have to cut a LOT of salary this offseason to renegotiate Caruso’s salary up like you’re suggesting. I don’t know they can clear that much that easily? Otherwise, Chicago can offer an extension with a 40% raise from next years salary, but that likely won’t be enough to lock in Caruso?