Sengun..value,offers

[Mike lorenzo]

Sengun has been great but...J.Green has taken off since he got hurt and HOUSTON hasn't missed him at all...it's also true that although super talented, it's difficult to build on a center with questionable defense, so the the supposed case that they decided to move Sengun... what type of teams would be interested and what could they offer that would attract Houston?...
The Raptors with something around their FRP?
Does it fit next to Wemby?
The Grizzlies?

[JRoy]

Sengun has been great but...J.Green has taken off since he got hurt and HOUSTON hasn't missed him at all...it's also true that although super talented, it's difficult to build on a center with questionable defense, so the the supposed case that they decided to move Sengun... what type of teams would be interested and what could they offer that would attract Houston?...
The Raptors with something around their FRP?
Does it fit next to Wemby?
The Grizzlies?

I don’t think HOU would move him for the first pick in this years draft.

[LarsV8]

If I were going to move him, it would have to be with value added for a better player who also better fits.

Such a player is hard to find.

[Colbinii]

I think Green and Sabonis can co-exist just fine.

Here is what I said earlier regarding Amen and Sengun.

Nah, Sengun is much better than David Lee.

Sengun is at 3.1 OBPM while David Lee's peak with the Warriors was 1.4 OBPM.

David Lee Peaked at 23 USG% and 16.5 AST%.
Sengun is at 27 USG% and 25.1 AST%.

Sengun is closer to Domantas Sabonis and the team around him should resemble more of the Kings. Now, Kings always have 4 shooters next to Sabonis. Literally every player Sabonis has played minutes with can shoot the 3 ball.

The current push-pull with Amen/Sengun is that neither can stretch the floor, and you can see it in their respective offensive ratings together compared to when they play without one another.

But, do you really want to emulate the Kings? I think Jalen Green has more to offer than Malik Monk and Jabari Smith Jr's potential defensive presence eclipses Keegan Murray's, but ultimately Amen will need to be able to shoot to succeed long-term next to Sabonis.

It is interesting to see what the Rockets decide moving forward and if the two [Amen and Sengun] can co-exist.

I think the question and purpose of the thread is interesting. Sengun is an All-Star level player at a young age. His value is far greater than any single pick in this draft.

[Colbinii]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

[K_chile22]

They're not trading him unless the other team offers something stupid like a superstar. He was not making Jalen Green the most harmful player in basketball for months when he's actually a superstar. It's just a silly idea to even say out loud. His defense is over picked on. Metrics have him as fine for a center and they've been a successful defense with him. Even if you thought Jalen becoming a flamethrower is just not playing with Sengun then you still don't trade your 21yo all star level player based on one month of good play from another guy

[MoneyTalks41890]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

[zimpy27]

Hmm I don't like the Sengun or Green argument.

I actually think the bigger story is whether the Rockets are better with Amen starting and Jabari Smith at C. Both can't really happen with Sengun there.

Rockets have some talent that probably suit a stretch big.

We could be looking at a Sabonis for Hali type trade with Sengun where both teams get better.

[K_chile22]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun doesn't need to shoot to be an all NBA level player. But yes yes Sengun is worth approximately two heavily protected picks from bad teams, I know

[MoneyTalks41890]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun doesn't need to shoot to be an all NBA level player. But yes yes Sengun is worth approximately two heavily protected picks from bad teams, I know

Hmmm is there anything in between Bam and two heavily protected 1sts? Who’s to say.

But yeah he does need to be able to shoot to be an All NBA player. He’s average at best defensively and even Sabonis didn’t have these career averages from distance when he was younger.

[K_chile22]

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun doesn't need to shoot to be an all NBA level player. But yes yes Sengun is worth approximately two heavily protected picks from bad teams, I know

Hmmm is there anything in between Bam and two heavily protected 1sts? Who’s to say.

But yeah he does need to be able to shoot to be an All NBA player. He’s average at best defensively and even Sabonis didn’t have these career averages from distance when he was younger.

No he doesn't, Sabonis himself made it being a non shooter. The 1 a game Sabonis attempts changes nothing about how he's guarded, it's nice he shoots an ok % on them but opposing teams do not care and do not guard him out there. I don't really think Sabonis is a good comp for Sengun anyways but that's another story


The two firsts thing was a jab as you've been the biggest Sengun hater around ever since he was traded on draft night lol

[Colbinii]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun's Annual Growth

Age 19 Season: -1.6 OBPM
Age 20 Season: 1.1 OBPM
Age 21 Season: 3.1 OBPM

A Consistent 2+ OBPM growth for 2 consecutive seasons.

Age 19 Season: 19.1 AST% / 18.8 TOV% / 22.0 USG%
Age 20 Season: 21.0 AST% / 17.3 TOV% / 21.4 USG%
Age 21 Season: 25.1 AST% / 12.5 TOV% / 27.0 USG%

Why does Sengun, who at Age 21 is already producing 21/9/5 on league average efficiency, need to develop shooting? He is one of the best big-men passers in the NBA and he doesn't turn the ball over often.

The Heat may not consider it, but it isn't because "Sengun needs to shoot better--it is because Bam is their "system" on both ends of the court. Projecting into the future, Sengun leaves more ceiling for an offense in the NBA compared to Bam, and a team may value that highly.

[MoneyTalks41890]

My first through it Bam Adebayo. The weird 1-for-1 deal. Bam is more proven and significantly better defensively while Sengun has the makings of an offensive system himself.

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun's Annual Growth

Age 19 Season: -1.6 OBPM
Age 20 Season: 1.1 OBPM
Age 21 Season: 3.1 OBPM

A Consistent 2+ OBPM growth for 2 consecutive seasons.

Age 19 Season: 19.1 AST% / 18.8 TOV% / 22.0 USG%
Age 20 Season: 21.0 AST% / 17.3 TOV% / 21.4 USG%
Age 21 Season: 25.1 AST% / 12.5 TOV% / 27.0 USG%

Why does Sengun, who at Age 21 is already producing 21/9/5 on league average efficiency, need to develop shooting? He is one of the best big-men passers in the NBA and he doesn't turn the ball over often.

The Heat may not consider it, but it isn't because "Sengun needs to shoot better--it is because Bam is their "system" on both ends of the court. Projecting into the future, Sengun leaves more ceiling for an offense in the NBA compared to Bam, and a team may value that highly.

League average efficiency isn’t good for a big man who stays in the paint. He’s 59th percentile in TS at 58.5. 12th percentile in 3 point shooting, 19th percentile in free throw percentage. Which is why the conversation has shifted in year three here from he will develop a shot to he doesn’t need one. He does or he clogs the paint for anyone else and caps the team’s upside.

He’s 72nd percentile in DEPM alongside Zion and LaVine.

[zimpy27]

I think JJJ and Sengun would be a nice fit.

Is something around Bane or Ja possible?

[K_chile22]

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun's Annual Growth

Age 19 Season: -1.6 OBPM
Age 20 Season: 1.1 OBPM
Age 21 Season: 3.1 OBPM

A Consistent 2+ OBPM growth for 2 consecutive seasons.

Age 19 Season: 19.1 AST% / 18.8 TOV% / 22.0 USG%
Age 20 Season: 21.0 AST% / 17.3 TOV% / 21.4 USG%
Age 21 Season: 25.1 AST% / 12.5 TOV% / 27.0 USG%

Why does Sengun, who at Age 21 is already producing 21/9/5 on league average efficiency, need to develop shooting? He is one of the best big-men passers in the NBA and he doesn't turn the ball over often.

The Heat may not consider it, but it isn't because "Sengun needs to shoot better--it is because Bam is their "system" on both ends of the court. Projecting into the future, Sengun leaves more ceiling for an offense in the NBA compared to Bam, and a team may value that highly.

League average efficiency isn’t good for a big man who stays in the paint. He’s 59th percentile in TS at 58.5. 12th percentile in 3 point shooting, 19th percentile in free throw percentage. Which is why the conversation has shifted in year three here from he will develop a shot to he doesn’t need one. He does or he clogs the paint for anyone else and caps the team’s upside

He’s 72nd percentile in DEPM alongside Zion and LaVine.

It's not good when you're a play finishing big man sure, but he's self creating a large portion of his shots. You should know as a Russell Westbrook fan at the peak of his powers, usage and efficiency are related. And saying a TS isn't good because he's in the paint isn't how TS works... It already accounts for that fact...

And that 72nd percentile is also higher than Jarrett Allen, Trey Murphy, Jabari Smith, Myles Turner, etc, etc. a lot of noise goes into that obviously but epm has him as a + defender ultimately, +0.3

And he's done most of his damage as a roller this year where he has gravity without being a shooter. Teams have to react to him in the middle of the floor or he'll kill you. Did Steven Adams clog the paint for anyone else and cap his teams upside?



Also...he's 21. He's going to get better. He's already above league average efficiency as a scorer with a large usage, very good passer, top 3 at his position and a decent defender... At 21

[Colbinii]

Can’t see any reason for the Heat to consider that. You’d have to be projecting a trajectory for Sengun not currently in evidence particularly with his shooting.

Sengun's Annual Growth

Age 19 Season: -1.6 OBPM
Age 20 Season: 1.1 OBPM
Age 21 Season: 3.1 OBPM

A Consistent 2+ OBPM growth for 2 consecutive seasons.

Age 19 Season: 19.1 AST% / 18.8 TOV% / 22.0 USG%
Age 20 Season: 21.0 AST% / 17.3 TOV% / 21.4 USG%
Age 21 Season: 25.1 AST% / 12.5 TOV% / 27.0 USG%

Why does Sengun, who at Age 21 is already producing 21/9/5 on league average efficiency, need to develop shooting? He is one of the best big-men passers in the NBA and he doesn't turn the ball over often.

The Heat may not consider it, but it isn't because "Sengun needs to shoot better--it is because Bam is their "system" on both ends of the court. Projecting into the future, Sengun leaves more ceiling for an offense in the NBA compared to Bam, and a team may value that highly.

League average efficiency isn’t good for a big man who stays in the paint. He’s 59th percentile in TS at 58.5. 12th percentile in 3 point shooting, 19th percentile in free throw percentage. Which is why the conversation has shifted in year three here from he will develop a shot to he doesn’t need one. He does or he clogs the paint for anyone else and caps the team’s upside.

He’s 72nd percentile in DEPM alongside Zion and LaVine.

And P.J. Washington, Dwight Powell, Kenrich Williams and Mike Conley.

Yet Sengun is well ahead defensively of Paolo Banchero [59 DEPM] and Karl-Anthony Towns [65 DEPM] yet get this--all 3 of Sengun, Banchero and Towns are offensive slanted big men and part of great defensive teams.

[Mike lorenzo]

I think JJJ and Sengun would be a nice fit.

Is something around Bane or Ja possible?

Sengun+ selections for Ja is very interesting, in my opinion..

[QMemphis]

I think JJJ and Sengun would be a nice fit.

Is something around Bane or Ja possible?

No lol, Grizz are not breaking up the big 3 especially for Sengun. The trade package would be picks based.

[zimpy27]

I think JJJ and Sengun would be a nice fit.

Is something around Bane or Ja possible?

No lol, Grizz are not breaking up the big 3 especially for Sengun. The trade package would be picks based.

You'd be making a new big 3.
Ja/JJJ/Sengun or Bane/JJJ/Sengun

I think Sengun+FVV+FRP for Ja is a good deal for both.

[K_chile22]

I think JJJ and Sengun would be a nice fit.

Is something around Bane or Ja possible?

No lol, Grizz are not breaking up the big 3 especially for Sengun. The trade package would be picks based.

You'd be making a new big 3.
Ja/JJJ/Sengun or Bane/JJJ/Sengun

I think Sengun+FVV+FRP for Ja is a good deal for both.

I don't think I'd do that given all of ja's concerns, injury and otherwise