What Does a J. Isaac to SAC Trade Look Like?

[jbk1234]

The reality is that he's one of those players who, if healthy, is really valuable. He's 6'10" can protect the rim and is absolutely killing the Cavs from 3 this series. His health is such a question mark that it's going to be hard for the two teams to get together on reasonable compensation.

[Residual-Heat]

and now you see why i said early in the thread he wont be traded. The Magic dont want to move Isaac, they have no reason to. He is an important part of their team. So unless a team wants to overpay, they're not getting Isaac. Only way i see him traded is maybe in a big package for a real star where the receiving team values Isaac as much as the Magic do, and im not talking about a Dejounte Murray trade where the Magic have the assets to make an offer without including Isaac.

[OxAndFox]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

[Skybox]

The reality is that he's one of those players who, if healthy, is really valuable. He's 6'10" can protect the rim and is absolutely killing the Cavs from 3 this series. His health is such a question mark that it's going to be hard for the two teams to get together on reasonable compensation.

Exactly...that's all I'm saying too. His value to ORL isn't off the charts - it's just unlikely that there's common ground in pick value. It's just semantics to get into "What if SAC gave 20 frps? What then?"...SAC wouldn't and shouldn't. He's more valuable to ORL than he will likely get on trade market, due to his injury history. Certainly there's a 3-way scenario for anyone in the league, if you put every asset on the table...I figured we were being somewhat realistic.

I, for one, wasn't relating anything to his injury history relative to Huerter. I didn't know Huerter was even injured...I just know his relevance as a player has diminished significantly. I wouldn't give up a ton for Isaac, but I would make a bet on him...he looks great right now and they've very deliberately brought him along slowly...if they hadn't, he'd be in the DPOY conversation...he's total defensive chaos whenever he's on the court. Stats are irrelevant when evaluating him - he plays the kind of individual defense the other team has to game plan around.

Huerter is/was a good shooter. ORL could certainly use a good shooter, but...

[Residual-Heat]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

Magic fans arent pretending that he wont get injured again. They are saying they will take that gamble on Isaac because what teams want to offer in return isnt worth it. They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol.

[jbk1234]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

Agreed, but he's healthy now and giving them real minutes in the playoffs. It's a bad time to be inquiring.

[OxAndFox]

The reality is that he's one of those players who, if healthy, is really valuable. He's 6'10" can protect the rim and is absolutely killing the Cavs from 3 this series. His health is such a question mark that it's going to be hard for the two teams to get together on reasonable compensation.

Exactly...that's all I'm saying too. His value to ORL isn't off the charts - it's just unlikely that there's common ground in pick value. It's just semantics to get into "What if SAC gave 20 frps? What then?"...SAC wouldn't and shouldn't. He's more valuable to ORL than he will likely get on trade market, due to his injury history. Certainly there's a 3-way scenario for anyone in the league, if you put every asset on the table...I figured we were being somewhat realistic.

I, for one, wasn't relating anything to his injury history relative to Huerter. I didn't know Huerter was even injured...I just know his relevance as a player has diminished significantly. I wouldn't give up a ton for Isaac, but I would make a bet on him...he looks great right now and they've very deliberately brought him along slowly...if they hadn't, he'd be in the DPOY conversation...he's total defensive chaos whenever he's on the court. Stats are irrelevant when evaluating him - he plays the kind of individual defense the other team has to game plan around.

Huerter is/was a good shooter. ORL could certainly use a good shooter, but...

Or most likely he would be injured?
Orlando has done a very good job in recent times of bringing him along slowly as you mention, but is that because he can't handle anything more? I would say that he can't (and that is fine with the way he is playing) so anything more than this, at this current time, would mean his injury risk sky rockets.

I agree that Orland shouldn't want to trade him either, as mentioned, I would hold him in high regard too just because of the impact. He is one of what, 2-3 players?? in the NBA that can do what he does. But I don't think simply saying Team X doesn't have enough to get him is spurring on any type of genuine conversation (not suggesting you specifically or anything).

[OxAndFox]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

Agreed, but he's healthy now and giving them real minutes in the playoffs. It's a bad time to be inquiring.

Absolutely. All I'm suggesting is what Hartford mentioned. It's a bit disingenuous to say Team X doesn't have the assets to acquire Player X. Then when assets are put forth the conversation changes to we don't want picks and making it a 3 team deal changes it.

[OxAndFox]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

Magic fans arent pretending that he wont get injured again. They are saying they will take that gamble on Isaac because what teams want to offer in return isnt worth it. They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol.

Are you 5?

[pillwenney]

To me, it's acquiring him is almost akin to drafting a 1st round pick who's a freak raw athlete--the difference being that instead of being unsure if the guy is going to learn to become an actually good player, in this case, you're unsure if he's going to be there. Probably similar general odds of it working out.

With that said, maybe it's foolish of me, but I'd be very, very tempted to give up real stuff for him. It'd just be such an ideal fit if he could stay on the court. I'd be at least curious to see what Orlando wanted.

[Skybox]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

Magic fans arent pretending that he wont get injured again. They are saying they will take that gamble on Isaac because what teams want to offer in return isnt worth it. They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol.

Are you 5?

Are you? should I apologize?...Ok, Sacramento can get anyone they want with all of their picks. This all started with very reasonable objections to the OP

[OxAndFox]

Magic fans arent pretending that he wont get injured again. They are saying they will take that gamble on Isaac because what teams want to offer in return isnt worth it. They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol.

Are you 5?

Are you? should I apologize?...Ok, Sacramento can get anyone they want with all of their picks. This all started with very reasonable objections to the OP

Huh? WTF. I was responding, very clearly, to Residual-Heat and their childish response of "They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol."

[Residual-Heat]

Are you 5?

Are you? should I apologize?...Ok, Sacramento can get anyone they want with all of their picks. This all started with very reasonable objections to the OP

Huh? WTF. I was responding, very clearly, to Residual-Heat and their childish response of "They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol."

my point was that Huerter does not tempt the Magic in any way given how easily they can get a guy like him. Dont need to be sensitive and take it as "childish response". The only childish response was yours.

[OxAndFox]

Are you? should I apologize?...Ok, Sacramento can get anyone they want with all of their picks. This all started with very reasonable objections to the OP

Huh? WTF. I was responding, very clearly, to Residual-Heat and their childish response of "They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol."

my point was that Huerter does not tempt the Magic in any way given how easily they can get a guy like him. Dont need to be sensitive and take it as "childish response". The only childish response was yours.

No. It's clear what you were trying to do.......lol

[Residual-Heat]

Huh? WTF. I was responding, very clearly, to Residual-Heat and their childish response of "They also have enough cap space to sign three Huerters this offseason lol."

my point was that Huerter does not tempt the Magic in any way given how easily they can get a guy like him. Dont need to be sensitive and take it as "childish response". The only childish response was yours.

No. It's clear what you were trying to do.......lol

i dont know what you're talking about but ok

[AaronB]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

What you are missing is that when healthy, Isaac is not just an impactful player; rather, he is a difference-maker. There are only a handful of those in the NBA. Where that shows up is on the defensive side, where metrics do not completely capture the degree of difference-making.

[SNPA]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

What you are missing is that when healthy, Isaac is not just an impactful player; rather, he is a difference-maker. There are only a handful of those in the NBA. Where that shows up is on the defensive side, where metrics do not completely capture the degree of difference-making.

He plays in 1/3 games over seven years. That can’t be caveated away. He has no real trade value, of course Magic fans won’t like the offers. They are crap offers, because a player that misses 2/3 of games is for practically purposes a crap asset. Hopefully he stays healthy for a second full season and recoups some value.

[AaronB]

I find it amusing that injury can be held against a player like Huerter who STILL played more games than Isaac this season and will be fine for the start of next season.
Huerter 413 games out of 472 = 87% of games played. Last 2 seasons 139 games from 164 = 84%
Isaac 205 games out of 554 = 37% of games played. Last 2 seasons 69 games from 164 = 42%

I don't fault Magic fans for holding Isaac in high regard because he is most definitely an impact player and I would do the same, but let's not pretend he is "over" his injuries until he gets some history under his belt. This season IMO he played himself from being extremely negative to neutral at best. He is an injury risk that is an expiring contract.
Best case scenario could be the worst case scenario at the same time in that he plays well next season (with Orlando or whoever) and a team signs him to an extension and then he has the good old 45 games over 4 years (yep you're right, no team will give him a 4 year deal, hence it goes into the value).

What you are missing is that when healthy, Isaac is not just an impactful player; rather, he is a difference-maker. There are only a handful of those in the NBA. Where that shows up is on the defensive side, where metrics do not completely capture the degree of difference-making.

He plays in 1/3 games over seven years. That can’t be caveated away. He has no real trade value, of course Magic fans won’t like the offers. They are crap offers, because a player that misses 2/3 of games is for practically purposes a crap asset. Hopefully he stays healthy for a second full season and recoups some value.

Actually, I don't disagree with this all that much.

However, just because he has no trade value due to health, that does not mean he can be traded for at a discount.

It is an odd predicament that the Magic are in with Isaac.

His value to the team is far far greater than it is on the trade market.

I consider it similar to the "paid for" car syndrome.

A paid-for car has a lot more value to the owner than one that is not paid for.

[OxAndFox]

What you are missing is that when healthy, Isaac is not just an impactful player; rather, he is a difference-maker. There are only a handful of those in the NBA. Where that shows up is on the defensive side, where metrics do not completely capture the degree of difference-making.

He plays in 1/3 games over seven years. That can’t be caveated away. He has no real trade value, of course Magic fans won’t like the offers. They are crap offers, because a player that misses 2/3 of games is for practically purposes a crap asset. Hopefully he stays healthy for a second full season and recoups some value.

Actually, I don't disagree with this all that much.

However, just because he has no trade value due to health, that does not mean he can be traded for at a discount.

It is an odd predicament that the Magic are in with Isaac.

His value to the team is far far greater than it is on the trade market.

I consider it similar to the "paid for" car syndrome.

A paid-for car has a lot more value to the owner than one that is not paid for.

I agree. As I have stated in this thread on multiple occasions I understand Magic fans and the org valuing him. I would in the same situation. What I have responded to is what Hartford bought up as in, it's a bit disingenuous to say Team X doesn't have the assets to acquire Player X. Then when assets are put forth the conversation changes to we don't want picks and making it a 3 team deal changes it so we're not interested any way.

I'm not suggesting Huerter is fair value or anything like that, don't get me wrong here, I'm simply saying anyone that is saying Huerter's value should fall because he's injured should also do the same for Isaac because the former played more games than the latter this season. It's simply using one factor for a player and not the other.

[SNPA]

He plays in 1/3 games over seven years. That can’t be caveated away. He has no real trade value, of course Magic fans won’t like the offers. They are crap offers, because a player that misses 2/3 of games is for practically purposes a crap asset. Hopefully he stays healthy for a second full season and recoups some value.

Actually, I don't disagree with this all that much.

However, just because he has no trade value due to health, that does not mean he can be traded for at a discount.

It is an odd predicament that the Magic are in with Isaac.

His value to the team is far far greater than it is on the trade market.

I consider it similar to the "paid for" car syndrome.

A paid-for car has a lot more value to the owner than one that is not paid for.

I agree. As I have stated in this thread on multiple occasions I understand Magic fans and the org valuing him. I would in the same situation. What I have responded to is what Hartford bought up as in, it's a bit disingenuous to say Team X doesn't have the assets to acquire Player X. Then when assets are put forth the conversation changes to we don't want picks and making it a 3 team deal changes it so we're not interested any way.

I'm not suggesting Huerter is fair value or anything like that, don't get me wrong here, I'm simply saying anyone that is saying Huerter's value should fall because he's injured should also do the same for Isaac because the former played more games than the latter this season. It's simply using one factor for a player and not the other.

I’ll say it. The Magic would be fortunate to get Huerter in exchange for Isaac as it currently stands. Isaac has no value outside of Orlando and a team taking a wild shot in the dark (which means it’s a low value offer).