Challenge: Get The Blazers Below The Tax / Consolidate Roster Spots

[DiegoChara]

Here is a follow-up to my previous post.

The obvious question and possible drawback to my proposition is: "wouldn't it be better to get something for any one of the top 4 contracts than get nothing at all?"

The answer is probably not. The reason is one of timing. In order to get a good return on those top 4 contracts, it will most likely take patience and the teams that are going to deal for those contracts may in fact be looking at the same players that the Blazers want to bring in to play for them.

Keep Ayton too long and Goga signs with another team. So incentivize the transactions, make them relatively free and then aggressively recruit players who will better contribute to winning.

I’ve gotta tell ya, “I’d rather not acquire assets, because if I take the time to do so I might miss out on Goga Bitadze” is an all timer of a take.

Just for clarity, Ayton has an EPM of -0.3 and Goga's is 1.4

Goga is just an example. Bid up the Knick Center and you still get him cheaper than Ayton.

The point is that Ayton is a starting C on a 21 win team. How good is he? EPM doesn't like him.

Why wait for a return?

Blazer fans think the team can take its time and wait out any move for the best value. This is wrong thinking. What Ayton does is take up 32 minutes per game (not to mention salary cap) that could be used as a selling point to a useful free agent.

Looks to me, like the other 4 at the top of the list, is that he (they) have more fame than game.

And just for understanding, I would not want Ayton on the Magic. He makes more than he is worth by a wide margin.

The only thing that will get the Blazers out of NBA hell is difference making players. Goga Bitadze is not that and never will be.
Ayton probably isn’t either for the record. But the Blazers only realistic path to acquiring those players at this juncture is through the draft. They need to acquire draft capital and hope they hit on those picks.
When you are a bad team in a less than desirable (by NBA player standards) location, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to sign a different making free agent.

[AaronB]

I’ve gotta tell ya, “I’d rather not acquire assets, because if I take the time to do so I might miss out on Goga Bitadze” is an all timer of a take.

Just for clarity, Ayton has an EPM of -0.3 and Goga's is 1.4

Goga is just an example. Bid up the Knick Center and you still get him cheaper than Ayton.

The point is that Ayton is a starting C on a 21 win team. How good is he? EPM doesn't like him.

Why wait for a return?

Blazer fans think the team can take its time and wait out any move for the best value. This is wrong thinking. What Ayton does is take up 32 minutes per game (not to mention salary cap) that could be used as a selling point to a useful free agent.

Looks to me, like the other 4 at the top of the list, is that he (they) have more fame than game.

And just for understanding, I would not want Ayton on the Magic. He makes more than he is worth by a wide margin.

The only thing that will get the Blazers out of NBA hell is difference making players. Goga Bitadze is not that and never will be.
Ayton probably isn’t either for the record. But the Blazers only realistic path to acquiring those players at this juncture is through the draft. They need to acquire draft capital and hope they hit on those picks.
When you are a bad team in a less than desirable (by NBA player standards) location, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to sign a different making free agent.

You are stuck in a way of thinking that is impossible to recover. I have said multiple times that Goga is not the point. Replace him with the Center from the Knicks. It does not matter.

The point is that the Blazers have 82 games and 48 minutes per game for every position. They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play. Right now, those 48 minutes per game are filled with guys who are overpaid and underperforming.

Get rid of those overpaid guys and the roster will be filled with guys hungry for a pay day. Fill it with the right guys, and playing the Blazers will be a nightmare.

[BlazersBroncos]

They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play.

This has literally never happened in the history of the Portland franchise.

We were spurned by Hedo freaking' Türkoğlu.

The biggest FA signing we have made in like 20 years is Evan Turner.

Cap space means little to nothing for the Trailblazers franchise in regards to signing players. Thats a fact until proven otherwise. Now, does cap space have value in taking bad contracts for assets? Yes. But as otherwise mentioned the franchise is not currently being run like that.

There is little reason to move Ayton right now as he wont pull anything decent. Grant and Simons are the guys that should be on the move IMO. Keep Brogdan and Thybulle for another year as veteran mentors (And to keep the team generating revenue, even a bad team will make some money if they have familiar faces - a Hinkie style turnover rate on the roster will plummet revenue and Jodie is revenue driven).

I keep coming back to Simons to ORL and Grant to SAC - could see a Grant to LAL for Rui + filler + LP 25 FRP after the draft, especially when LAL gets bounced in R1 by DEN. LeGM will be pushing for a win-now move and Grant might actually be a legit #3 on a team as top heavy as LAL. But PDX doesnt really deal w/ the Lakers generally.

[DiegoChara]

Just for clarity, Ayton has an EPM of -0.3 and Goga's is 1.4

Goga is just an example. Bid up the Knick Center and you still get him cheaper than Ayton.

The point is that Ayton is a starting C on a 21 win team. How good is he? EPM doesn't like him.

Why wait for a return?

Blazer fans think the team can take its time and wait out any move for the best value. This is wrong thinking. What Ayton does is take up 32 minutes per game (not to mention salary cap) that could be used as a selling point to a useful free agent.

Looks to me, like the other 4 at the top of the list, is that he (they) have more fame than game.

And just for understanding, I would not want Ayton on the Magic. He makes more than he is worth by a wide margin.

The only thing that will get the Blazers out of NBA hell is difference making players. Goga Bitadze is not that and never will be.
Ayton probably isn’t either for the record. But the Blazers only realistic path to acquiring those players at this juncture is through the draft. They need to acquire draft capital and hope they hit on those picks.
When you are a bad team in a less than desirable (by NBA player standards) location, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to sign a different making free agent.

You are stuck in a way of thinking that is impossible to recover. I have said multiple times that Goga is not the point. Replace him with the Center from the Knicks. It does not matter.

The point is that the Blazers have 82 games and 48 minutes per game for every position. They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play. Right now, those 48 minutes per game are filled with guys who are overpaid and underperforming.

Get rid of those overpaid guys and the roster will be filled with guys hungry for a pay day. Fill it with the right guys, and playing the Blazers will be a nightmare.

Goga, Mitchell Robinson, “player x who is hungry for a payday”, none of those players make the least bit of difference when you’re talking about teams currently at the bottom of the barrel.

Could they be scrappy overachievers who win 35 games instead of 25 with those kinds of signings?Maybe, best case scenario. But that’s nothing to aspire to.

You cannot win at a high level in the NBA without some elite talent. That is indisputable.

[JRoy]

Just for clarity, Ayton has an EPM of -0.3 and Goga's is 1.4

Goga is just an example. Bid up the Knick Center and you still get him cheaper than Ayton.

The point is that Ayton is a starting C on a 21 win team. How good is he? EPM doesn't like him.

Why wait for a return?

Blazer fans think the team can take its time and wait out any move for the best value. This is wrong thinking. What Ayton does is take up 32 minutes per game (not to mention salary cap) that could be used as a selling point to a useful free agent.

Looks to me, like the other 4 at the top of the list, is that he (they) have more fame than game.

And just for understanding, I would not want Ayton on the Magic. He makes more than he is worth by a wide margin.

The only thing that will get the Blazers out of NBA hell is difference making players. Goga Bitadze is not that and never will be.
Ayton probably isn’t either for the record. But the Blazers only realistic path to acquiring those players at this juncture is through the draft. They need to acquire draft capital and hope they hit on those picks.
When you are a bad team in a less than desirable (by NBA player standards) location, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to sign a different making free agent.

You are stuck in a way of thinking that is impossible to recover. I have said multiple times that Goga is not the point. Replace him with the Center from the Knicks. It does not matter.

The point is that the Blazers have 82 games and 48 minutes per game for every position. They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play. Right now, those 48 minutes per game are filled with guys who are overpaid and underperforming.

Get rid of those overpaid guys and the roster will be filled with guys hungry for a pay day. Fill it with the right guys, and playing the Blazers will be a nightmare.

The best FA POR has drawn in the last 30 years is Brian Grant.

POR does not attract quality FA. That is the reality.

[AaronB]

The only thing that will get the Blazers out of NBA hell is difference making players. Goga Bitadze is not that and never will be.
Ayton probably isn’t either for the record. But the Blazers only realistic path to acquiring those players at this juncture is through the draft. They need to acquire draft capital and hope they hit on those picks.
When you are a bad team in a less than desirable (by NBA player standards) location, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to sign a different making free agent.

You are stuck in a way of thinking that is impossible to recover. I have said multiple times that Goga is not the point. Replace him with the Center from the Knicks. It does not matter.

The point is that the Blazers have 82 games and 48 minutes per game for every position. They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play. Right now, those 48 minutes per game are filled with guys who are overpaid and underperforming.

Get rid of those overpaid guys and the roster will be filled with guys hungry for a pay day. Fill it with the right guys, and playing the Blazers will be a nightmare.

The best FA POR has drawn in the last 30 years is Brian Grant.

POR does not attract quality FA. That is the reality.

Then the team needs to create an identity without that possibility.

Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

The Knicks are the #2 seed in the East thanks to Jalen Brunson, a second-round pick.

They traded for OG, who rarely played.

They basically did it with a good coach and a bunch of lunchpail players.

It can be done.

The one thing we know for sure is that it won't be done by the guys currently dominating the minutes.

Maybe it takes a little time to figure out who the guys are that are going to make every team dread going into Portland.

There is time to figure it out, what there isn't is time to waste.

[JRoy]

You are stuck in a way of thinking that is impossible to recover. I have said multiple times that Goga is not the point. Replace him with the Center from the Knicks. It does not matter.

The point is that the Blazers have 82 games and 48 minutes per game for every position. They will draw good players in free agency if they have the opportunity for players to play. Right now, those 48 minutes per game are filled with guys who are overpaid and underperforming.

Get rid of those overpaid guys and the roster will be filled with guys hungry for a pay day. Fill it with the right guys, and playing the Blazers will be a nightmare.

The best FA POR has drawn in the last 30 years is Brian Grant.

POR does not attract quality FA. That is the reality.

Then the team needs to create an identity without that possibility.

Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

The Knicks are the #2 seed in the East thanks to Jalen Brunson, a second-round pick.

They traded for OG, who rarely played.

They basically did it with a good coach and a bunch of lunchpail players.

It can be done.

The one thing we know for sure is that it won't be done by the guys currently dominating the minutes.

Maybe it takes a little time to figure out who the guys are that are going to make every team dread going into Portland.

There is time to figure it out, what there isn't is time to waste.

The reality is that POR needs to build through trades and the draft.

The only FA for POR are the sloppiest of sloppy seconds.

[DiegoChara]

The best FA POR has drawn in the last 30 years is Brian Grant.

POR does not attract quality FA. That is the reality.

Then the team needs to create an identity without that possibility.

Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

The Knicks are the #2 seed in the East thanks to Jalen Brunson, a second-round pick.

They traded for OG, who rarely played.

They basically did it with a good coach and a bunch of lunchpail players.

It can be done.

The one thing we know for sure is that it won't be done by the guys currently dominating the minutes.

Maybe it takes a little time to figure out who the guys are that are going to make every team dread going into Portland.

There is time to figure it out, what there isn't is time to waste.

The reality is that POR needs to build through trades and the draft.

The only FA for POR are the sloppiest of sloppy seconds.

This is true. And doubly true since the team is bad. Let’s say Portland won the lottery last year and had Wemby. Maybe then there’s a universe where you could sign free agents interested in coming to compete with him.

Right now they’re gonna have to draft their way out of this situation. And maximizing available draft capital gives the best hope of doing that.

[QMemphis]

Simple…

Ayton + Simons

FOR

WCJ + 25 Nugs 1st + 25 Magic 1st

I like this, let’s make a 3 team deal. Then Grizz can send 25 1st, Ziaire and Konchar for WCJ.

[JRoy]

Simple…

Ayton + Simons

FOR

WCJ + 25 Nugs 1st + 25 Magic 1st

I like this, let’s make a 3 team deal. Then Grizz can send 25 1st, Ziaire and Konchar for WCJ.

Love it.

[Norm2953]

This works if Portland picks Clingan at 3/4

[QMemphis]

This works if Portland picks Clingan at 3/4

I could see Clingan falling to late lottery and Portland trading up from 13.

[Myth]

This works if Portland picks Clingan at 3/4

I could see Clingan falling to late lottery and Portland trading up from 13.

He looked too slow away from the rim for me to want him at 3/4. He could be a decent center in the league, but more like a good role player who struggles in certain matchups. So yeah, with the Warriors pick I’m fine with it, but not our higher pick. I wouldn’t expect him better than Ayton though, just cheaper.

[Norm2953]

This works if Portland picks Clingan at 3/4

I could see Clingan falling to late lottery and Portland trading up from 13.

He looked too slow away from the rim for me to want him at 3/4. He could be a decent center in the league, but more like a good role player who struggles in certain matchups. So yeah, with the Warriors pick I’m fine with it, but not our higher pick. I wouldn’t expect him better than Ayton though, just cheaper.

I do wonder if Ayton is expecting another extension but what if Portland's pick ends up 6/7?

I'd hate to have to pay Ayton $40+ million/season

Clingan is what he is which is an upgraded version of one my favorite Blazers (Joel Pryzbilla). Assuming he
checks healthy on his physical, drafting a guy who will average 10/10 who will set solid picks and protect
the basket isn't bad from a mediocre 2024 draft that has nobody projected to be a star. Clingan if he stays
healthy, should play 10-12 years in the league

[Myth]

I could see Clingan falling to late lottery and Portland trading up from 13.

He looked too slow away from the rim for me to want him at 3/4. He could be a decent center in the league, but more like a good role player who struggles in certain matchups. So yeah, with the Warriors pick I’m fine with it, but not our higher pick. I wouldn’t expect him better than Ayton though, just cheaper.

I do wonder if Ayton is expecting another extension but what if Portland's pick ends up 6/7?

I'd hate to have to pay Ayton $40+ million/season

Clingan is what he is which is an upgraded version of one my favorite Blazers (Joel Pryzbilla). Assuming he
checks healthy on his physical, drafting a guy who will average 10/10 who will set solid picks and protect
the basket isn't bad from a mediocre 2024 draft that has nobody projected to be a star. Clingan if he stays
healthy, should play 10-12 years in the league

6/7 would be iffy, but more palatable than 3/4. That said, I don’t claim to be an expert on this draft to know the other options, I just know I wasn’t sold watching Clingan. Przybilla was fun, but would struggle in the modern era. I’d almost want to see if Clingan falls to us at 12, and if not, see if there is a deal to be made to move up from our 2nd rounders and something to the 20s to take Edey. Slower player which would be even worse on the perimeter defense, but looks Yao-esque in an era where Yao just wouldn’t be as effective. He’d be an interesting backup to Ayton while still taking a swing at a high level player with the 2 lottery picks.

[Sactowndog]

I'd rather they just pay the tax as opposed to giving guys away for little reward.

Brogdon has an expiring contract and Thybulle has a player option after next season
so getting under the tax line won't be a problem after next season.

That approach was what the Kings did with Barnes and didn’t make a Barnes trade every Kings fan wishes we had taken now.

The Grant to Kings trade probably should have happened this year. But I suspect Monk goes and finds a starting spot and that window has closed on a 30 year old Grant.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Definitely going to be intrigued to see how this plays out. Put me in the camp of the players might not be great value based off the results they are showing, but we will see. Sometimes players return surprising returns, both above and below what we expect.

I'm not sure what other camp there is. The Blazers have precious few assets and a looming tax bill for a garbage team. There is pretty broad agreement that they are one of the worst-off teams in the league. Anybody who believes that they will return "great value" for anybody they might trade should prepare to be disappointed. If there is such a camp, I hope its population is tiny.

[ChettheJet]

even if the PORT fans don't like it

Robert Williams III

to the Bulls for

the rights to their pick back

Yeah I know at the rate the Blazers are going that pick will never convey but this would free up PORT to be able to trade a pick early prior to 2030 if the deal presented itself. They free themselves from a $13M year of Williams coming off an injury, when he was supposed to play behind Ayton, Grant and Murray is an unsolved mystery

I'd be more than happy to find a way for the Bulls to end up with Ayton but can't see it

[Skybox]

Simons to ORL has made sense for years but never more than this summer…with POR over a barrel financially and ORL holding tons of cap space, all of their picks plus one or possibly two extra firsts, and a glaring need for backcourt scoring. ORL could even eat addtl salary and/or send back young inexpensive talent too.

Not Ayton…that’s just too much $$$ for a team about to extend ALL of their core over the next two summers (Suggs, Franz, Issac, Paolo). Small market just can’t pay everyone like GSW…but POR certainly knows that right now.

ORL sends: WCJ(13m), Jett Howard (5m)2025 frp (top 5 protected), cap space
POR sends: Simons (25m), Time Lord (12.5m x2 yrs)

I’m looking at Time Lord as a total financial loss…if he returns, huge for ORL, but not betting on it. If there’s actual medical reason to believe he’ll be back, ORL adds DEN 25 frp (possibly change year of ORL pick…I’m assuming POR doesn’t prefer another 24 frp. WCJ is very versatile…could definitely play next to Ayton as well as time at C.

[jayjaysee]

I'd be more than happy to find a way for the Bulls to end up with Ayton but can't see it

Do we think Portland says no to Vuc, Carter, Portland first, and a couple 2nds for Ayton?

If they do say no and Chicago is willing to add (they shouldn’t)…

Does Chicago trade back from 11 to get a real future first for Portland? Somewhere between..

16 and the 2025 Denver first
21 and NOP’s 2025 first

Maybe Philly with one of their other team future picks, though that’s probably not the direction they go this offseason. Moving up to 11 vs 20 would help with matching contract if they decided to go for Reed+?? and maintain their free agent cap holds..

Chicago keeps 21st and gives Portland their first and the NOP first.. Portland tries to find an expiring for Vuc.