Offers for Brandon Ingram?

Moderators: Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, Texas Chuck, MoneyTalks41890, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, Trader_Joe, loserX

lordjeff05
Veteran
Posts: 2,991
And1: 768
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#41 » by lordjeff05 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:24 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Individual unadjusted DRtg is a pretty horrible stat, lol. He was benched for defense and decision making last night.

"Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs."

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

The issue for Ingram is that his TS+ over the last three years is

98
100
100

Which is...... fine for an iso scorer... But not great... And Sexton's was 105.

Ingram also misses around 30 games a year.


People should chill out on last night as proof of anything other than Ingram being rusty post injury. The team hasn't played well these last two games vs a team that is a bad matchup for them. Dtg is not an objective stat as to whether someone is a superb individual defender but it does answer a more important question which is, can this person be part of a good defense. His overall defensive body of work shows that over 60 plus games he can be a part of a good defense and when you pair him with a good defender at the 5, like Nance, he can be part of an elite defense (108.4Dtrg). And this year he sacrificed some of his individual buckets for better overall play. You call him an iso scorer but he generally did a really good job of playing within the flow of the offense and the game.

Also Ingram hasn't missed 30 games in 5 years but by all means go off. I know 30 games sounds sexy.
User avatar
TimeisIllmatic
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,637
And1: 319
Joined: Aug 18, 2020
       

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#42 » by TimeisIllmatic » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:41 pm

theBigLip wrote:
TimeisIllmatic wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
Pistons could certainly use him. Hard to give up all those assets if Ingram isn’t on a long term deal.


Definitely risky with his injury history and about to hit the market but he would be relied upon more for scoring which could be a selling point they can use to get him to sign long term.

At some point the Pistons can't keep drafting lottery guys every year.


We can if we keep losing. :lol:

Seriously, we got $70M+ in cap space. That’s got to bring in some established players. If we can do that and stay healthy, I think we can make the play in, especially since we are in the East. Critical offseason. I’m actually rooting against the Pels vs Kings so they are motivated to make some moves - several of their players could help the Pistons, Pels are getting an expensive roster, and Pistons could just absorb someone. Rumors to be continued…


Hard for me to see the Pelicans winning with or without Zion. Kings are a very very well-coached team. Energy has seemed very off for the Pelicans all season. I definitely expect them to make a lot of moves this summer to not only improve but avoid the tax.
Frankie
Sophomore
Posts: 112
And1: 115
Joined: Oct 25, 2022
 

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#43 » by Frankie » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:54 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Ingram +

FOR

Sengun

Get er done.


Rockets would be like :noway:
tester551
Analyst
Posts: 3,716
And1: 819
Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Location: Missing the Coast & Trees

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#44 » by tester551 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:59 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Individual unadjusted DRtg is a pretty horrible stat, lol. He was benched for defense and decision making last night.

"Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs."

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

The issue for Ingram is that his TS+ over the last three years is

98
100
100

Which is...... fine for an iso scorer... But not great... And Sexton's was 105.

Ingram also misses around 30 games a year.


People should chill out on last night as proof of anything other than Ingram being rusty post injury. The team hasn't played well these last two games vs a team that is a bad matchup for them. Dtg is not an objective stat as to whether someone is a superb individual defender but it does answer a more important question which is, can this person be part of a good defense. His overall defensive body of work shows that over 60 plus games he can be a part of a good defense and when you pair him with a good defender at the 5, like Nance, he can be part of an elite defense (108.4Dtrg). And this year he sacrificed some of his individual buckets for better overall play. You call him an iso scorer but he generally did a really good job of playing within the flow of the offense and the game.

Also Ingram hasn't missed 30 games in 5 years but by all means go off. I know 30 games sounds sexy.


30 games is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.
If you average games played in his last 7 years (excluding only his rookie year), BI has played in ~57/games per season. So he misses ~25/games per year.
lordjeff05
Veteran
Posts: 2,991
And1: 768
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#45 » by lordjeff05 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:23 pm

tester551 wrote:People should chill out on last night as proof of anything other than Ingram being rusty post injury. The team hasn't played well these last two games vs a team that is a bad matchup for them. Dtg is not an objective stat as to whether someone is a superb individual defender but it does answer a more important question which is, can this person be part of a good defense. His overall defensive body of work shows that over 60 plus games he can be a part of a good defense and when you pair him with a good defender at the 5, like Nance, he can be part of an elite defense (108.4Dtrg). And this year he sacrificed some of his individual buckets for better overall play. You call him an iso scorer but he generally did a really good job of playing within the flow of the offense and the game.

Also Ingram hasn't missed 30 games in 5 years but by all means go off. I know 30 games sounds sexy.


30 games is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.
If you average games played in his last 7 years (excluding only his rookie year), BI has played in ~57/games per season. So he misses ~25/games per year.[/quote]

Look I don't dispute there are injury concerns here. But let's not play with the numbers. Excluding only his rookie season also excludes the season he played 79 games. You actually get to the same amount of games if you just look at his average over his 5 seasons in New Orleans but at least its more honest.
RookieJazz
Junior
Posts: 370
And1: 43
Joined: Apr 30, 2012
     

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#46 » by RookieJazz » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:25 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RookieJazz wrote:Jazz can offer 2 FRP + Fillers


They can offer a lot more than 2 FRP.


The Ingram idea is like..... semi plausible but also weird.

Ingram was just... OK this year.

And he would only stay in Utah for a max.

So now you're giving 60% of the salary cap to Ingram and Markkanen.

And Ingram should be your third best player but he needs to be your first option as he doesn't like deferring so you need superstar offball scorers and superstar defenders... And the Jazz have the star offball scorer, but they were the worst defensive team in NBA history...

So you need to get some defensive stars next to Ingram and Markkanen and then the cap starts to look extremely dicey.

Like, if you had a Gobert quality defender at center and a Jrue quality defender at PG, then this core looks great... Acquiring those two guys would be extremely hard and push the Jazz to the second apron with limited depth.

Acquiring Ingram himself is also hard as it probably requires a 3-5 team trade. You need to pay a team to take on John Collins' contract (which has to be sent out in this deal) and you need to send the picks to a third team willing to give up a player that fits better with Zion.


Jazz would tem up Lauri, Ingram, and Murray (they can offer another 2FRP). Then look for a defensive 3 and D SG.
Murray, 3+D SG, Ingram, Lauri, Kessler. Playoff team for sure.
scottyg
Rookie
Posts: 1,203
And1: 81
Joined: Oct 23, 2009

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#47 » by scottyg » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:36 pm

Lavine and Vuc and a pick for Val ( S&T) and Ingram
User avatar
Euphonetiks
Pro Prospect
Posts: 794
And1: 338
Joined: Dec 16, 2015
   

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#48 » by Euphonetiks » Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:00 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:Also Ingram hasn't missed 30 games in 5 years but by all means go off. I know 30 games sounds sexy.


Are we not counting last year when he played in 45 games?

He has played on average ~59 games/yr with the Pelicans (5 years) which is ~23 games missed each season. It's not 30, but it is high enough fo a numbert to be a real concern.
TheNetsFan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,956
And1: 2,599
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#49 » by TheNetsFan » Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:03 pm

Ingram seems like a potential Nets target. I assume NOLA would want a lesser but cheaper wing with some contractual control plus sweetener. CamJ+ or DFS+ (or CamJ+DFS) seem like workable frameworks depending on what the plus would look like. The Nets could roll the dice on retaining Ingram in '25 or utilizing the additional cap space in FA in a year they already project to have a ton.
balsamic_ducks
Junior
Posts: 252
And1: 212
Joined: Aug 02, 2022
 

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#50 » by balsamic_ducks » Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:18 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
balsamic_ducks wrote:
esvl wrote:
Because it happens at the cost of other players’ efficiency. To make Zion score 30 pts, all team has to work hard to create him cutting opportunities enough to justify his salary. He is effectively a liability on both ends. No defence, no creation, no shooting, no passing.



Serious question, have you watched Zion? He has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, he creates his own offense and his passing has gotten better every year. He's also not a bad defender anymore


He's also still a bad defender.


According to what? BPM and EPM both have him as a neutral to positive defender.
Slim Charless
General Manager
Posts: 9,991
And1: 6,219
Joined: May 10, 2019
   

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#51 » by Slim Charless » Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:34 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
esvl wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Lol what? Zion is 10x the player Ingram will ever be.


Really? Interesting. Remind me what Zion can do beyond cutting?


Why does it even matter if you can get 30 points off cutting with elite efficiency.


He's kinda right though. Zion+CJ for Trae+Hunter makes sense for both teams imo.

Murray/CJ/Johnson/Zion/00
Trae/Dyson/Herb/BI/Val

Makes for a better fit on both sides. Herb and Dyson can cover for Trae defense.
Ell Curry
Head Coach
Posts: 6,444
And1: 1,720
Joined: Oct 27, 2001
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#52 » by Ell Curry » Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:53 pm

I'm not a fan at all. My guess is the Pelicans still feel pretty good about Dyson Daniels as a PG prospect going forward and will hope he can improve his shot like Herb Jones did, so I think a center makes sense, but tough to find one who fits.

Ingram, #21 for #11, Vucevic and a future top 10 protected Bulls first would make some sense if the Bulls want to keep trying to win 40 games every year (and move on from Demar or find a taker for Lavine). Draft Filipowski #11 and say Devin Carter at #18?

Vucevic-Filipowski-Nance
Zion-Nance
Murphy-Marshall
Jones-McCollum-Carter
Daniels-Alvarado-Carter

and get one last okay season out of Vucevic and pray his shot comes back while Filipowski matures and hope he can take over in year 2 or 3 as a starter? Probably use the extra Bulls first along with some of their own to try to turn Vucevic's expiring (so not next season but before or during the 2025-26 season) or McCollum's expiring into a starting center or PG.
Where's the D?
toooskies
Analyst
Posts: 3,655
And1: 1,670
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#53 » by toooskies » Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:21 pm

I don't have Cleveland evaluating Ingram (at his current low) as comparable to Garland (at his current low). Specifically because Ingram only has a year left on his deal and the Cavs couldn't afford to rent him and lose him.

OTOH, Cleveland is probably still interested. Strus, LeVert, and 2024/2031 1sts from Cleveland? Maybe a 2030 swap? Both Cavs players would be stable members of a NOP rotation as supporting cast around Zion and Murphy, but you don't have to start them. LeVert comes off the books next year when you need to pay Murphy.

The Nets probably should beat that offer with, say, Cam Johnson and picks. Or Ben Simmons and more picks.
Toine85
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,234
And1: 61
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: In the Knicks' Front Office
       

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#54 » by Toine85 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:46 pm

I was actually hoping the Knicks had traded Fournier plus picks to the Raps instead of RJ Barrett. I knew this day would come and I figured that NOP might want to pair Zion with Barrett. I could have envisioned RJ + 2-3 firsts for Ingram.

I thought the Knicks would be dangerous with a 9-man rotation Brunson-BI-OG-Randle-Mitch with iHart, Hart, DDV, Deuce.
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,311
And1: 37,124
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#55 » by zimpy27 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:56 pm

Ingram+ for Mitchell
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
Astaluego
Freshman
Posts: 67
And1: 24
Joined: May 02, 2020
   

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#56 » by Astaluego » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:24 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Ingram+ for Mitchell

That would be a gift for some large market teams preparing for FA 25 (Nets/Lakers?). I don't see either of them extending their new destination (maybe Ingram if they pay him his maximum, which would be a problem in itself. same)
Old Mike Lorenzo
lordjeff05
Veteran
Posts: 2,991
And1: 768
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#57 » by lordjeff05 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:42 pm

toooskies wrote:I don't have Cleveland evaluating Ingram (at his current low) as comparable to Garland (at his current low). Specifically because Ingram only has a year left on his deal and the Cavs couldn't afford to rent him and lose him.

OTOH, Cleveland is probably still interested. Strus, LeVert, and 2024/2031 1sts from Cleveland? Maybe a 2030 swap? Both Cavs players would be stable members of a NOP rotation as supporting cast around Zion and Murphy, but you don't have to start them. LeVert comes off the books next year when you need to pay Murphy.

The Nets probably should beat that offer with, say, Cam Johnson and picks. Or Ben Simmons and more picks.


That's a lowball offer to get bench pieces for a team that is already deep.
lordjeff05
Veteran
Posts: 2,991
And1: 768
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#58 » by lordjeff05 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:46 pm

Cam Johnson coming up is interesting to me...what about a 3 way trade with Cam and assets going to Minnesota, BI going to Brooklyn and KAT coming to New Orleans.
User avatar
codydaze
Forum Mod - Kings
Forum Mod - Kings
Posts: 5,865
And1: 4,537
Joined: Jul 06, 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
     

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#59 » by codydaze » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:51 pm

I would probably put everything outside of Fox/Keegan/Sabonis on the table for Sacramento. Huerter/Barnes and 1sts would be the max offer, I wouldn't include Keegan so the offer is probably beaten but I would like BI's fit here.
Wolveswin
Head Coach
Posts: 7,240
And1: 2,516
Joined: Aug 22, 2020
 

Re: Offers for Brandon Ingram? 

Post#60 » by Wolveswin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:55 pm

Astaluego wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Ingram+ for Mitchell

That would be a gift for some large market teams preparing for FA 25 (Nets/Lakers?). I don't see either of them extending their new destination (maybe Ingram if they pay him his maximum, which would be a problem in itself. same)

Has to be something around…

To Nets: Mitchell + Ingram

To Cavs: Bridges+

To Pels: Cameron Johnson+

Return to Trades and Transactions