Pels/Hawks/Wolves Retool

[Texas Chuck]

I mean I get the Pels have some good defensive wings, but if your bigs are Towns and Zion, I don't think defensively you figure to be as scary of a team as people think. I know Wolves fans are really high on Towns defense this year, but I'm skeptical away from the best defender in the league, a guy the fanbase has labeled the best perimeter defender in the league and a rotation full of solid to better defenders that Towns is suddenly a guy you want anchoring your defense. And make no mistake he'd have to do that in New Orleans because Zion is no Gobert.

[schaffy]

I mean I get the Pels have some good defensive wings, but if your bigs are Towns and Zion, I don't think defensively you figure to be as scary of a team as people think. I know Wolves fans are really high on Towns defense this year, but I'm skeptical away from the best defender in the league, a guy the fanbase has labeled the best perimeter defender in the league and a rotation full of solid to better defenders that Towns is suddenly a guy you want anchoring your defense. And make no mistake he'd have to do that in New Orleans because Zion is no Gobert.

The year before they acquired Gobert, the Wolves were a middle of the road defensive team by playing a way more frenetic style. Blitzed screens, everyone flew around. It was the style KAT had preferred vs drop and they finally went to it. With NO's wings and intensity on the ball I think that style would work with him again - not that I'd imagine it to be some top 5 defense in the league. Now to work that requires everyone making the same reads together and trusting each other -- not the easiest task when bringing in new guys or when you have multiple guys with history of injuries that require a lot of fill-in starters. And definitely see your point that there is no back line, cleanup guy.

[toooskies]

Thoughts?

https://imgur.com/xIRLKfH

Cavs easily say no. Doubt you'd get either Mobley or Garland let alone both for Towns. I can't see Mitchell sticking around with what's left as well. Minnesota becomes a much better team after this and I could really see Ant and Garland flourishing and Mobley works with Gobert. If The Knicks miss out on Mitchell I could see them going after Towns using Randle plus

I'm not too high on Garland. If the Cavs can get D Mitchell extended and bought in, they should continue to build around him rather than Garland. I think Towns would look good next to him and G. Allen.

Mobley might have too much value to be included in this trade, but i wanted to keep the trade proposal simple with just 2 teams. Would the Cavs and Wolves do a 1 for 1 swap of Garland for Towns?

Just because you are not high on Garland doesn't mean the Cavs aren't high on Garland. If he's getting valued lower than what they think his value is, they aren't going to trade him.

People think the combo of Garland/Mitchell doesn't work, but it's really just been that Garland has had an injury-plagued season. Mitchell is Garland's 2nd-best two-man lineup (among his top 10 most played) at +4.4, and was his highest before Mitchell's knee injury.

[Wolveswin]

^I do think a Garland + Allen for Franz Wagner + WCJ should have legs.

Then if Mitchell needs to leave, Cavs trade accordingly building around Mobley | Wagner.

[gottamakeit]

^I do think a Garland + Allen for Franz Wagner + WCJ should have legs.

Then if Mitchell needs to leave, Cavs trade accordingly building around Mobley | Wagner.

IDK if Orlando does tbh. Not because the value isn't good (which it is), but because having Garland on their team ruins their defensive identity.

[Wolveswin]

^I do think a Garland + Allen for Franz Wagner + WCJ should have legs.

Then if Mitchell needs to leave, Cavs trade accordingly building around Mobley | Wagner.

IDK if Orlando does tbh. Not because the value isn't good (which it is), but because having Garland on their team ruins their defensive identity.

You must really not like Garland. I mean, Suggs still there to take toughest guard defensive assignments and Isaac slides into starting SF with Allen now at rim. Not sure Garland can single handily ‘ruin’ that much defensive identity.

[gottamakeit]

^I do think a Garland + Allen for Franz Wagner + WCJ should have legs.

Then if Mitchell needs to leave, Cavs trade accordingly building around Mobley | Wagner.

IDK if Orlando does tbh. Not because the value isn't good (which it is), but because having Garland on their team ruins their defensive identity.

You must really not like Garland. I mean, Suggs still there to take toughest guard defensive assignments and Isaac slides into starting SF with Allen now at rim. Not sure Garland can single handily ‘ruin’ that much defensive identity.

When you have a big tall playmaker/scorer in Banchero, i think its prudent to maximize shooting, length, and defense. Garland cuts you at length and defense, and that's why he's a bad fit for the ideal Orlando team. Donovan Mitchell would look much better next to Banchero.

Garland is much better suited for a team that has strong rim protectors and with a need for primary creation. I like him on Minnesota because i don't trust Ant's decision making and reading the defense. Mike Conley has been huge for them but he's getting old

[lordjeff05]

I mean I get the Pels have some good defensive wings, but if your bigs are Towns and Zion, I don't think defensively you figure to be as scary of a team as people think. I know Wolves fans are really high on Towns defense this year, but I'm skeptical away from the best defender in the league, a guy the fanbase has labeled the best perimeter defender in the league and a rotation full of solid to better defenders that Towns is suddenly a guy you want anchoring your defense. And make no mistake he'd have to do that in New Orleans because Zion is no Gobert.

The year before they acquired Gobert, the Wolves were a middle of the road defensive team by playing a way more frenetic style. Blitzed screens, everyone flew around. It was the style KAT had preferred vs drop and they finally went to it. With NO's wings and intensity on the ball I think that style would work with him again - not that I'd imagine it to be some top 5 defense in the league. Now to work that requires everyone making the same reads together and trusting each other -- not the easiest task when bringing in new guys or when you have multiple guys with history of injuries that require a lot of fill-in starters. And definitely see your point that there is no back line, cleanup guy.

This post hit on one of the main points, which is that KAT played decent defense in the year before Rudy. I think you'd legitimately need a top 15 defense to be a contender with both of them on the court and that's possible. The Timberwolves played the same defense that the Pels played this year, which is a two on the ball system. Valanciunas has done well in it and KAT is more mobile than Jonas. Also in the 21 games that Trey played in place of BI, the starters had a defensive rating of 109, which is really good, like would the second best defensive rating in the league good.

Overall, the lineup would really stress other teams and force them to play uncomfortably. It is virtually impossible to play small against that lineup. So, you have to have at least one big out there, and if you dont have another defender with some bulk then you're toast. That may force teams to play with defensive personnel that is more offensively limited. Most teams prefer to play Zion with their big on a another player ready to help when he drives. But if that big has to guard Towns then it makes it hard for them to help. Its also really difficult to form a shell when the big can shoot. KAT would also be much more involved in the offense both as hub in the high post, and the main screener in pick and rolls where can play out of short roll, pick and pop and dive to the rim. Offensively and defensively its a better fit for him.

And I prefer for the Pels to not invest in a point guard because Id prefer the ball being in Zion's hands in the clutch so that's kind of a wasted resource. Kat can be the fulcrum of an offense when Zion is out which he doesn't really get to do as much right now. He can get back to that, while also providing Zion with a true stretch 5 for the first time in his life.

[schaffy]

I mean I get the Pels have some good defensive wings, but if your bigs are Towns and Zion, I don't think defensively you figure to be as scary of a team as people think. I know Wolves fans are really high on Towns defense this year, but I'm skeptical away from the best defender in the league, a guy the fanbase has labeled the best perimeter defender in the league and a rotation full of solid to better defenders that Towns is suddenly a guy you want anchoring your defense. And make no mistake he'd have to do that in New Orleans because Zion is no Gobert.

The year before they acquired Gobert, the Wolves were a middle of the road defensive team by playing a way more frenetic style. Blitzed screens, everyone flew around. It was the style KAT had preferred vs drop and they finally went to it. With NO's wings and intensity on the ball I think that style would work with him again - not that I'd imagine it to be some top 5 defense in the league. Now to work that requires everyone making the same reads together and trusting each other -- not the easiest task when bringing in new guys or when you have multiple guys with history of injuries that require a lot of fill-in starters. And definitely see your point that there is no back line, cleanup guy.

This post hit on one of the main points, which is that KAT played decent defense in the year before Rudy. I think you'd legitimately need a top 15 defense to be a contender with both of them on the court and that's possible. The Timberwolves played the same defense that the Pels played this year, which is a two on the ball system. Valanciunas has done well in it and KAT is more mobile than Jonas. Also in the 21 games that Trey played in place of BI, the starters had a defensive rating of 109, which is really good, like would the second best defensive rating in the league good.

Overall, the lineup would really stress other teams and force them to play uncomfortably. It is virtually impossible to play small against that lineup. So, you have to have at least one big out there, and if you dont have another defender with some bulk then you're toast. That may force teams to play with defensive personnel that is more offensively limited. Most teams prefer to play Zion with their big on a another player ready to help when he drives. But if that big has to guard Towns then it makes it hard for them to help. Its also really difficult to form a shell when the big can shoot. KAT would also be much more involved in the offense both as hub in the high post, and the main screener in pick and rolls where can play out of short roll, pick and pop and dive to the rim. Offensively and defensively its a better fit for him.

And I prefer for the Pels to not invest in a point guard because Id prefer the ball being in Zion's hands in the clutch so that's kind of a wasted resource. Kat can be the fulcrum of an offense when Zion is out which he doesn't really get to do as much right now. He can get back to that, while also providing Zion with a true stretch 5 for the first time in his life.

I will say, even though they were fine with that defense, my personal feelings are I don't think its a style that can get you very far in the playoffs. Its a regular season defense that can cause some teams problems on a given night because their prep for it is shorter and they aren't going to make changes to what they do playing against it. But in a 7 game series where there will be a lot more chances to make adjustments, I think it would be a lot easier to pick apart and get the defense confused and/or off the same page and create gaps.