What is Ingram's trade value? Best offers?

[jbk1234]

I didn’t read all the posts - but teams trading for Ingram need to be VERY confident they can indeed re-sign him. The handful of teams that can have that confidence is limited.

Have Warriors been mentioned?

Wiggins +

Maybe Wiggins can regain form in Now Orleans. Maybe at SG with McCollum as starting PG.

I mean you have that conversation so that you have a sense, but if you're paying rental value, you're fine taking him without the commitment. The summer of 2025 is a going to be a good summer to have cap space.

[Euphonetiks]

I keep seeing some people mention the risk of not re-signing when trading for Ingram, but wouldn’t any trade involving him most likely be an extend and trade?

No. We don't see those very often. Now, I do think teams trading for him would seek permission to talk with him about future salary expectations and want to feel good about retaining him before dealing for him.

But the risk is still the risk and it has to be accounted for in some fashion in his value imo. Buyers shouldn't oversell the risk to get a cheaper price of course and sellers shouldn't dismiss the risk to get a higher price. Which is what we typically see.

Isn’t the reason we didn’t see those before due to the prior limit on the raise amount? I thought 2024-2025 is the first year teams can extend and trade at 120% which would make it more useful.

I don’t see why Ingram wouldn’t want the security of an extend and trade unless he doesn’t want to be with the new team which would likely kill the trade anyhow.

Are there negatives to an extend and trade for the team or something?

[Texas Chuck]

I keep seeing some people mention the risk of not re-signing when trading for Ingram, but wouldn’t any trade involving him most likely be an extend and trade?

No. We don't see those very often. Now, I do think teams trading for him would seek permission to talk with him about future salary expectations and want to feel good about retaining him before dealing for him.

But the risk is still the risk and it has to be accounted for in some fashion in his value imo. Buyers shouldn't oversell the risk to get a cheaper price of course and sellers shouldn't dismiss the risk to get a higher price. Which is what we typically see.

Isn’t the reason we didn’t see those before due to the prior limit on the raise amount? I thought 2024-2025 is the first year teams can extend and trade at 120% which would make it more useful.

I don’t see why Ingram wouldn’t want the security of an extend and trade unless he doesn’t want to be with the new team which would likely kill the trade anyhow.

Are there negatives to an extend and trade for the team or something?

I think typically its the player who sees it as a negative. They want to keep options open. Now if the numbers are more financially viable you might well be right we will see more of them.

[Wolveswin]

:P

I didn’t read all the posts - but teams trading for Ingram need to be VERY confident they can indeed re-sign him. The handful of teams that can have that confidence is limited.

Have Warriors been mentioned?

Wiggins +

Maybe Wiggins can regain form in Now Orleans. Maybe at SG with McCollum as starting PG.

I mean you have that conversation so that you have a sense, but if you're paying rental value, you're fine taking him without the commitment. The summer of 2025 is a going to be a good summer to have cap space.

Explain that. I disagree.

Markkanen will be raised and extended this offseason. Not a free agent.

Mitchell - highly likely Cavs cash in 2024 offseason - so not left holding the bag. Team trading for Mitchell will be confident Mitchell is not a FA.

Ingram is kind of best leftover girl at the dance. And even he might be traded by NOP so they can refresh - see whole Ingram thread claiming whomever trades for him will max and retain Ingram with confidence.

[Euphonetiks]

I think typically its the player who sees it as a negative. They want to keep options open. Now if the numbers are more financially viable you might well be right we will see more of them.

Prior to July 1, 2024, extend and trades were limited to 3 years in length and the 1st year salary was capped at 105% of the last year of the prior contract, which made it not very useful. After July 1, 2024, teams can offer 4 year extensions at 120% of the last year of the prior contract, which in theory makes it a lot more functional.

For Ingram, my interpretation of the rules is that with his $36M 2024-2025 salary and 15% trade kicker, the Pelicans and whatever trade partner could agree to an extend and trade that would give him a 4 year 30% max extension if desired.

Ingram wants a max extension this offseason. With that in mind, I do not see the Pelicans trading Ingram to somewhere he really doesn't want to be because (a) they have a good relationship with him/his agent and (b) the best offer is unlikley to come from a team only interested in a rental. Realistically no team is putting up assets for Ingram in hopes of convincing him to stay, so I think he will be traded to a team where there is mutual interest in signing the extension this offseason.

[gswhoops]

I didn’t read all the posts - but teams trading for Ingram need to be VERY confident they can indeed re-sign him. The handful of teams that can have that confidence is limited.

Have Warriors been mentioned?

Wiggins +

Maybe Wiggins can regain form in Now Orleans. Maybe at SG with McCollum as starting PG.

I think most teams should be confident they can resign Ingram if they're willing to give him a 30% max deal. The problem is that he's not really good enough to justify such a contract but you might have to go that high to keep him.

Golden State might be willing to consider a move though I wouldn't want to pay what some are expecting.

Also, Ingram playing for Kerr last summer looked bad, though he might look better on the Warriors where he'd likely get more ball.

I think Ingram for Wiggins plus some combo of picks and prospects makes sense. We badly need a second scorer and Ingram for all his flaws can be that guy. We’ve had no issues paying massive tax bills in the past for a team that can contend.

[greg4012]

Ingram=Butler....does that help? Not many teams are going to really want them on their next contract but will give up certain amount of assets for them now and worry about the future later. Likely a few more suiters for Ingram since I think Butler is going to restrict the teams that will be allowed to trade for him.

Why wouldn't Ingram restrict the teams, as well?

[jbk1234]

I think typically its the player who sees it as a negative. They want to keep options open. Now if the numbers are more financially viable you might well be right we will see more of them.

Prior to July 1, 2024, extend and trades were limited to 3 years in length and the 1st year salary was capped at 105% of the last year of the prior contract, which made it not very useful. After July 1, 2024, teams can offer 4 year extensions at 120% of the last year of the prior contract, which in theory makes it a lot more functional.

For Ingram, my interpretation of the rules is that with his $36M 2024-2025 salary and 15% trade kicker, the Pelicans and whatever trade partner could agree to an extend and trade that would give him a 4 year 30% max extension if desired.

Ingram wants a max extension this offseason. With that in mind, I do not see the Pelicans trading Ingram to somewhere he really doesn't want to be because (a) they have a good relationship with him/his agent and (b) the best offer is unlikley to come from a team only interested in a rental. Realistically no team is putting up assets for Ingram in hopes of convincing him to stay, so I think he will be traded to a team where there is mutual interest in signing the extension this offseason.

Are you sure extend and trades are legal under the new CBA, or do you mean extend, wait several months, and then trade?

[Euphonetiks]

Are you sure extend and trades are legal under the new CBA, or do you mean extend, wait several months, and then trade?

Yes, extend and trades are legal without waiting.

Art. VIII, Sec. 8(e)(2):
(2) A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract; provided, however, that: (i) no such agreement may be made during the period from the last day of the last Regular Season covered by the Contract (or the last day of any Regular Season that could be the last Regular Season covered by the Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or ETO) through the following June 30; (ii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) prior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than three (3) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed; and (iii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than four (4) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed. The Salary and Unlikely Bonuses that may be provided in the first year of the extended term and annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 7(a)(3)(iii) and Section 5(a)(4) above.

Art. VIII, Sec. 7(a)(3)(iii)(B):
If such Extension is signed on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, then the Extension may, in the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, provide for a Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, of up to the greater of: (A) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Regular Salary in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract; or (B) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for the Salary Cap Year in which the Extension is signed (or, if the Extension provides for any Incentive Compensation in the first Salary Cap Article VII 253 Year covered by the extended term, then one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for such Salary Cap Year less the amount of such Incentive Compensation). In the event that the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term may provide for Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses of up to one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(a)(4) above.

[jayjaysee]

dup..

My understanding is that would give Ingram a “4yr172” or a new “3yr136” same thing..

Is he agreeing to that? Or does anyone want to give him that?

Feels a lot better than the 200+ number that is his max if he plays out his current contract.

[psman2]

Ingram=Butler....does that help? Not many teams are going to really want them on their next contract but will give up certain amount of assets for them now and worry about the future later. Likely a few more suiters for Ingram since I think Butler is going to restrict the teams that will be allowed to trade for him.

Why wouldn't Ingram restrict the teams, as well?

Because he just doesn't have the clout, he will be frowned upon since he hasn't really accomplished much so far in his career. And Ingram I think we be happy to get his max anywhere and continue to jack up shots for awhile. Ingram has time on his side to force a trade later where as Butler needs to land in an ideal spot from day one to have a chance win a chip. But sure Ingram might have a list, but Butler will for sure have a list.

[jbk1234]

Are you sure extend and trades are legal under the new CBA, or do you mean extend, wait several months, and then trade?

Yes, extend and trades are legal without waiting.

Art. VIII, Sec. 8(e)(2):
(2) A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract; provided, however, that: (i) no such agreement may be made during the period from the last day of the last Regular Season covered by the Contract (or the last day of any Regular Season that could be the last Regular Season covered by the Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or ETO) through the following June 30; (ii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) prior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than three (3) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed; and (iii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than four (4) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed. The Salary and Unlikely Bonuses that may be provided in the first year of the extended term and annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 7(a)(3)(iii) and Section 5(a)(4) above.

Art. VIII, Sec. 7(a)(3)(iii)(B):
If such Extension is signed on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, then the Extension may, in the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, provide for a Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, of up to the greater of: (A) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Regular Salary in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract; or (B) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for the Salary Cap Year in which the Extension is signed (or, if the Extension provides for any Incentive Compensation in the first Salary Cap Article VII 253 Year covered by the extended term, then one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for such Salary Cap Year less the amount of such Incentive Compensation). In the event that the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term may provide for Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses of up to one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(a)(4) above.

Was it that the prohibition regarding extend and trades in the prior CBA was deleted? I don't see anything in those two sections explicitly authorizing them.

[Euphonetiks]

Are you sure extend and trades are legal under the new CBA, or do you mean extend, wait several months, and then trade?

Yes, extend and trades are legal without waiting.

Art. VIII, Sec. 8(e)(2):
(2) A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract; provided, however, that: (i) no such agreement may be made during the period from the last day of the last Regular Season covered by the Contract (or the last day of any Regular Season that could be the last Regular Season covered by the Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or ETO) through the following June 30; (ii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) prior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than three (3) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed; and (iii) no such Extension entered into pursuant to this Section 8(e)(2) on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year may cover more than four (4) Seasons from the date the Extension is signed. The Salary and Unlikely Bonuses that may be provided in the first year of the extended term and annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 7(a)(3)(iii) and Section 5(a)(4) above.

Art. VIII, Sec. 7(a)(3)(iii)(B):
If such Extension is signed on or after the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, then the Extension may, in the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term, provide for a Salary, excluding Incentive Compensation, of up to the greater of: (A) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Regular Salary in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract; or (B) one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for the Salary Cap Year in which the Extension is signed (or, if the Extension provides for any Incentive Compensation in the first Salary Cap Article VII 253 Year covered by the extended term, then one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Estimated Average Player Salary for such Salary Cap Year less the amount of such Incentive Compensation). In the event that the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term of the Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the first Salary Cap Year covered by the extended term may provide for Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses of up to one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, in the last Salary Cap Year covered by the original term. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(a)(4) above.

Was it that the prohibition regarding extend and trades in the prior CBA was deleted? I don't see anything in those two sections explicitly authorizing them.

It's in the first sentence of 8(e)(2) - "A player and his Team may amend a Player Contract (including by entering into an Extension but not by entering into a Renegotiation) pursuant to an agreement between such Team and another Team concerning the signing of the amendment and subsequent trade of the amended Contract"

TRANSLATION - "A player and his current team can enter into an Extension pursuant to an extend and trade agreement with another team."

It was allowed in the last CBA also, but the extension was capped at 3 years and a 105% raise from the last year of the prior contract. Starting in 2024/2025 that jumps to 120% and 4 years.

[Slim Charless]

I don't hate this for New Orleans. Pels free up a ton of money, could offer Valanciaunas the Bruce Brown special of say 25M for year 1 and a team option for year 2 and still have the full MLE available to use on a Zion backup, then by the deadline you can move an expiring JV and multiple 1sts for a PG:

Duren-Nance
Zion-MLE
HerbJones-Murphy
TreyMurphy-McCollum
PG-Daniels

Draft some high-upside wings at #17 and #21 whose value hopefully won't crater to include in the deal, an if you're stuck with them, hope one develops and you can eventually move Jones or Murphy for that PG, or that Daniels just learns to shoots over the next summer or 2.

I agree. This is something DET should do. They need his shooting and are unlikely to attract a player like BI if he were actually a FA, even tho they have tons of room. This allows them to put Stewert at the 5 and free up some of the log jam they have amongst their bigs. Ingram will get to eat in the D. Cade also benefits as he now as someone he can feed and will take the pressure off of him.

Eh, I like it less for Detroit but their fan suggested it, and I don't really feel like telling a Detroit fan to suck it up and eat a 60 loss season and keep building slowly after damn near losing 70 this past one.

If Ingram wants to sign, it's not terrible I guess if the young guys develop with Ausar guarding the other team's best wing, Cade and Ingram scoring, Ivey at PG and you draft Clingan or Sarr I guess to eventually take over from Beef Stew. But they probably just need to tank hard for one more year and get a star in 2025.

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

[Euphonetiks]

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

I don't think the Pels have any interest in a straight Ingram for Duren swap because Duren doesn't fit with Zion. Duren doesn't space and he doesn't anchor a defense. I would imagine any Detroit trade involves the 2024 pick. Something like Pistons' 24 + Stewart for Ingram + Pels '24. That might be too rich for Detroit, but I cannot see Griff moving Ingram for Duren alone.

[Slim Charless]

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

I don't think the Pels have any interest in a straight Ingram for Duren swap because Duren doesn't fit with Zion. Duren doesn't space and he doesn't anchor a defense. I would imagine any Detroit trade involves the 2024 pick. Something like Pistons' 24 + Stewart for Ingram + Pels '24. That might be too rich for Detroit, but I cannot see Griff moving Ingram for Duren alone.

Well, he's not quite the sharp-shooter that Val is lol....

......but seeing as he's already a better, more efficient scorer and 13 years younger. I think there's more potential there. Way more. The cost comparison from Duren to BI is wild as well on a side note.

[Ell Curry]

I agree. This is something DET should do. They need his shooting and are unlikely to attract a player like BI if he were actually a FA, even tho they have tons of room. This allows them to put Stewert at the 5 and free up some of the log jam they have amongst their bigs. Ingram will get to eat in the D. Cade also benefits as he now as someone he can feed and will take the pressure off of him.

Eh, I like it less for Detroit but their fan suggested it, and I don't really feel like telling a Detroit fan to suck it up and eat a 60 loss season and keep building slowly after damn near losing 70 this past one.

If Ingram wants to sign, it's not terrible I guess if the young guys develop with Ausar guarding the other team's best wing, Cade and Ingram scoring, Ivey at PG and you draft Clingan or Sarr I guess to eventually take over from Beef Stew. But they probably just need to tank hard for one more year and get a star in 2025.

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

I guess the question with Ingram is Detroit is that, assuming Ingram signs a max extension and they give a center a big deal - since the point of Ingram is that they aren't tanking - then how happy are you with a Ivey-Cade-Ingram-Ausar-Hartenstein/Claxton starting 5 and Sasser-Grimes-Fontecchio-Stewart and a top 5 pick in this draft?

It's not as ugly as I thought at first glance. You hurt the odds of a top 2-3 pick in 2025 which could give you the guy to make you a real contender, but there's more young talent around Ingram and Cade than they had around say Blake Griffin + Drummond or the Raptors had around DeRozan + Lowry in say 2015.

Maybe you need to move Ausar or Ivey for a better shooter at some point, but that seems doable with picks + Stewart's salary.

I'm not an Ingram guy at all personally, but I can see why Detroit would do it, like how Sacramento is probably happy enough with the Haliburton-Sabonis deal and winning 44+ games a year for the next 5 years even if their path to a championship was probably moving Fox for less than he'd get in a trade now, keeping Haliburton and suffering a couple more losing years and getting say Wemby or Miller in this past draft.

[Euphonetiks]

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

I don't think the Pels have any interest in a straight Ingram for Duren swap because Duren doesn't fit with Zion. Duren doesn't space and he doesn't anchor a defense. I would imagine any Detroit trade involves the 2024 pick. Something like Pistons' 24 + Stewart for Ingram + Pels '24. That might be too rich for Detroit, but I cannot see Griff moving Ingram for Duren alone.

Well, he's not quite the sharp-shooter that Val is lol....

......but seeing as he's already a better, more efficient scorer and 13 years younger. I think there's more potential there. Way more. The cost comparison from Duren to BI is wild as well on a side note.

We also aren't rushing to re-sign Val because he doesn't space and cannot anchor a defense. Val at least has a recent season shooting 36% on 3.5 3PA/gm and has a career 79% FT%. In 2 seasons, Duren has not made a 3 and he's only attempted 6.

Maybe Duren can space the floor in the distant future, but that does nothing for his ability to play with Zion now. We already have a non-spacing hyper efficient interior scorer that we are trying to build around.

The salary difference is significant, but it always will be comparing a mid lotto rookie-scale to a 20+ ppg vet wing and David Griffin is not looking to just dump salary.

[Slim Charless]

Eh, I like it less for Detroit but their fan suggested it, and I don't really feel like telling a Detroit fan to suck it up and eat a 60 loss season and keep building slowly after damn near losing 70 this past one.

If Ingram wants to sign, it's not terrible I guess if the young guys develop with Ausar guarding the other team's best wing, Cade and Ingram scoring, Ivey at PG and you draft Clingan or Sarr I guess to eventually take over from Beef Stew. But they probably just need to tank hard for one more year and get a star in 2025.

Yeah, it's ties into what all of ^^^^^ guys are talking about. Ingram is a big risk-especially at the price tag it will take to make him happy. Teams like Dallas don't make sense for him. Detroit OTOH makes a ton of sense....and I'd probably like to get Duren back more so than Lively if I was the Pels too.

I guess the question with Ingram is Detroit is that, assuming Ingram signs a max extension and they give a center a big deal - since the point of Ingram is that they aren't tanking - then how happy are you with a Ivey-Cade-Ingram-Ausar-Hartenstein/Claxton starting 5 and Sasser-Grimes-Fontecchio-Stewart and a top 5 pick in this draft?

It's not as ugly as I thought at first glance. You hurt the odds of a top 2-3 pick in 2025 which could give you the guy to make you a real contender, but there's more young talent around Ingram and Cade than they had around say Blake Griffin + Drummond or the Raptors had around DeRozan + Lowry in say 2015.

Maybe you need to move Ausar or Ivey for a better shooter at some point, but that seems doable with picks + Stewart's salary.

I'm not an Ingram guy at all personally, but I can see why Detroit would do it, like how Sacramento is probably happy enough with the Haliburton-Sabonis deal and winning 44+ games a year for the next 5 years even if their path to a championship was probably moving Fox for less than he'd get in a trade now, keeping Haliburton and suffering a couple more losing years and getting say Wemby or Miller in this past draft.

If I was them, I wouldn't sign Claxton. Or draft Sarr for that matter. Just resign Wiseman for pennies and then go after whoever the best 3 point shooter is this yr. Zaccharie Risacher would be the best case, but even if you can't get him then whoever is #2 shooting wise.

Cade/Ivey/Ausar/BI/Stewart

With Fornier/Sassar/(Shooter they drafted)

All coming off the bench. That's not terrible and provided Monty isn't as dumb, they should win more games next season. A lot more IMO.

[Ell Curry]

We also aren't rushing to re-sign Val because he doesn't space and cannot anchor a defense. Val at least has a recent season shooting 36% on 3.5 3PA/gm and has a career 79% FT%. In 2 seasons, Duren has not made a 3 and he's only attempted 6.

Maybe Duren can space the floor in the distant future, but that does nothing for his ability to play with Zion now. We already have a non-spacing hyper efficient interior scorer that we are trying to build around.

The salary difference is significant, but it always will be comparing a mid lotto rookie-scale to a 20+ ppg vet wing and David Griffin is not looking to just dump salary.

The Pels need a unicorn for sure at center, but they're still really rare. Most likely they'll have to choose between a defensive anchor or a 3pt shooter. Obviously it's damn near impossible to get a Chet, but there's not some band of future Porzingis/Brook Lopez' out there that I can see.

If we assume that the Pels are all in on Zion being healthy (because otherwise what are we doing here, really?) than which one is better might come down to Dyson Daniels' development. If he can become an average shooter and the quality defender he looks like, maybe you can throw out Daniels-Murphy-Herb-Zion from 1-4 and live with a shooter who's not a true anchor defensively in exchange for the spacing and less Daniels' 3, because there's nobody to pick on defensively apart from maybe Hawkins coming off the bench.

But not wanting Duren because he might be neither an anchor or a 3pt shooter is totally fair. This would be more of an upside play. So maybe it's a 3 or 4 way deal with a young team with more spacing at the 4 getting Duren. As a Raptors fan, I'd be interested in Poeltl for Duren with Poeltl going to New Orleans and Ingram to Detroit, and from watching both for years on the Raptors I know Poeltl is a much better defender than JV, but Detroit and Toronto would probably have to include a pick swap for the Pels to bite. Washington makes a lot of sense too, if they draft say Topic/Sheppard/Dillingham now and one of the many top SGs in the next draft, then 2024-2025-Coulibaly-Avdjia-Duren isn't horrible looking.