Two Bulls Trades, w/PHX and POR

[ecuhus1981]

Gooden/Tyrus/Thabo/1st/1st for STAT/Tucker/Barnes

PHX gets a pair of quality F prospects, as well as a vet bigman who (when healthy) can defend and shoot.
Nash, Richardson, Hill, Thomas, O'neal
Dragic, Barbosa, Dudley, Amundson, Lopez


Kirk/Noc'/Gray for Pryz/Blake/Webster
POR upgrades their weakest positions, while remaining salary-neutral for '09.
Hinrich, Roy, Nocioni, Aldridge, Oden
Bayless, Fernandez, Batum, Outlaw, Gray


CHI assembles a team that can contend.
Rose, Gordon, Deng, Stoudemire, Pryzbilla
Blake, Tucker, Barnes, Simmons, Noah

[Wizenheimer]

for portland, when the center exchange is pryzbilla for gray, the rest of the deal will likely not matter.

The blazers really want to make the playoffs this season and Oden isn't reliable yet. Blazers really need Pryzbilla.

The "salary-neutral" part of your trade is attractive, it's just to big a drop from Pryz to gray.

[ecuhus1981]

for portland, when the center exchange is pryzbilla for gray, the rest of the deal will likely not matter.

The blazers really want to make the playoffs this season and Oden isn't reliable yet. Blazers really need Pryzbilla.

The "salary-neutral" part of your trade is attractive, it's just to big a drop from Pryz to gray.

Your reasoning is understandable, but the drop from Joel to Aaron has been exaggerated by POR fans.

Obviously, Pryz is a more efficient scorer (all he does is cleanup), but Gray has a more polished offensive game, which could make him a better long-term bench counterpart to Oden. He's also a better passer, and although he's not a freak rebounder like Pryz, is very good in that regard as well.

Aaron vs. Joel

You have to give to get in a deal, and believe it or not, the Blazers' starting lineup gets ALOT better, while the bench doesn't take a drastic hit. In fact, if you factor the addition of Batum to the bench, it could actually be mitigated further.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston would love to see those trades happen.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Pryzbilla>>>Gray Especially concerning Portlands needs.Pryz could start for nearly half the teams in the league based on talent.Gray would only start for any team out of shear desperation and only because he is 7' and 275lbs
Pryz's defense,rebounding and leadership(he is helping to teach Oden better positioning on defense btw)are so much better than Grays it's startling
Portland may have some minumal interest in Hinrich but absolutely none in Nocioni who is way overpaid

[Village Idiot]

Your reasoning is understandable, but the drop from Joel to Aaron has been exaggerated by POR fans.

Obviously, Pryz is a more efficient scorer (all he does is cleanup), but Gray has a more polished offensive game, which could make him a better long-term bench counterpart to Oden. He's also a better passer, and although he's not a freak rebounder like Pryz, is very good in that regard as well.

My respect for you took a hit with that statement. Przybilla is such a vastly superior defender to Gray that it isn't even funny. Neither is much of an offensive player but Joel's leadership and willingness (almost eagerness) to dish out punishment and battle for rebounds are a big part of Portland's success.

While I think Hinrich is a slight upgrade over Steve Blake he certainly isn't worth giving up Joel Przybilla for. Personally I like Webster better long-term than Nocioni who seems to have maxed out his potential. Webster seems to still be developing.

[ecuhus1981]

While I think Hinrich is a slight upgrade over Steve Blake he certainly isn't worth giving up Joel Przybilla for. Personally I like Webster better long-term than Nocioni who seems to have maxed out his potential. Webster seems to still be developing.

Developing what, exactly? Pressure sores, from all the time spent rehabbing?!

Nah, I'm just messing with you. You threw me a meatball, so I had to take a swing!

Look, don't think that I don't see that G-OD is not all he's cracked up to be, so far. If he gets schooled by Duncan, Shaq, Ming, Howard or Gasol in a series, you'd like to bring in a vet like Joel off the bench as insurance, so that that one mismatch doesn't spell "game-set-match" on your entire postseason. I get it.

But I believe the same thing, on a much higher level, could happen to your two weakest positions, especially SF. Batum vs. James/Pierce/Prince/Turkoglu/Odom/Anthony/Artest and even vets like Peja and Hill are problem situations in a 7-game series. Nocioni is nobody's defensive juggernaut, but he has the physical build and the experience to stick with all of these matchups.

A trade that upgrades two starting positions at the cost of downgrading one backup position (while strengthening another) should be one to strongly consider, IMO.

Finally, let's be real, POR fans: Pryzbilla has statistically regressed every month of this season, and Oden has improved. It is reasonable to believe that at this pace, G-OD will be ready for the playoffs in two months. Also, Batum's numbers have dropped off considerably this month, intimating that the long grind of the season may be taking its toll on the 20yo rookie. Losing Joel's leadership will be a pill, but Kirk and Andres are two natural leaders as well. The post-trade lineup is much more poised to make a surprise run in April, May and possibly even June.

[jhern87]

throw in Deng and we'll throw in a pick or two and then we'll talk...

[PDXKnight]

Joel Przybilla >>>>>>> Aaron Gray in his prime. By the time Joel's contract expires, we anticipate Oden will be ready to play center full time, so age isn't much of a factor right now. We can pretty easily replace a guy like Aaron Gray with a late first rounder or early second rounder, but for the Blazers, having a guy like Przybilla to come off the bench when Oden has been in foul trouble has been absolutely HUGE for the Blazers. Our defense has been pretty pathetic this season so trading one of our few defensive players is not in our best interest IMO.

[ecuhus1981]

Joel Przybilla >>>>>>> Aaron Gray in his prime. By the time Joel's contract expires, we anticipate Oden will be ready to play center full time, so age isn't much of a factor right now. We can pretty easily replace a guy like Aaron Gray with a late first rounder or early second rounder, but for the Blazers, having a guy like Przybilla to come off the bench when Oden has been in foul trouble has been absolutely HUGE for the Blazers. Our defense has been pretty pathetic this season so trading one of our few defensive players is not in our best interest IMO.

To wit, it could be argued that Kirk Hinrich >>> Steve Blake in his prime, and Andres Nocioni >>> Martell Webster in his prime.

[CB-Blazer]

Joel Przybilla >>>>>>> Aaron Gray in his prime. By the time Joel's contract expires, we anticipate Oden will be ready to play center full time, so age isn't much of a factor right now. We can pretty easily replace a guy like Aaron Gray with a late first rounder or early second rounder, but for the Blazers, having a guy like Przybilla to come off the bench when Oden has been in foul trouble has been absolutely HUGE for the Blazers. Our defense has been pretty pathetic this season so trading one of our few defensive players is not in our best interest IMO.

To wit, it could be argued that Kirk Hinrich >>> Steve Blake in his prime, and Andres Nocioni >>> Martell Webster in his prime.

Thats an extreme exaggeration on both accounts.

Noc definitely carries negative value due to his ginormous contract.

Lets put it this way. The difference between Hinrich/Blake in terms of Portlands needs isn't enough for Portland to trade Webster for Noc and his albatross contract and do a major downgrade from Pryzbilla to Grey.

You can argue all you want, but this isn't in the realm of possibility.

[ecuhus1981]

Again, anyone but POR fans would see Nocioni, Hinrich and Pryzbilla as the same. They are all players who could start on many NBA teams, but aren't starting on theirs. These supersubs all are making more $ than you would ideally like a backup to make, and are signed long-term.

It is myopic at best for Blazers fans to view Joel as different than Kirk and Andres.