WAS/GS/SA -- Ricky goes to GS

[nate33]

double post

[nate33]

Not a deal breaker but another consideration. Substitute Belinelli for Azubuike. That gives you the off guard shooter you seem to want (and for a little less money). If we got Rubio, then there'd be no need for Belli. since we'd be moving Maggette, it would make sense to keep Bukie (Maggette-Lite).

That would probably be a deal breaker for us. That off guard position beside Arenas also needs to be able to defend 2's well and Azubuike at 220 lbs would be a better fit defensively.

Before Belinelli was injured the Warriors were assigning him to the opponent's best offensive perimeter player. Belinelli and all-star Ray Allen went head to head in Oakland when the Celtics were on that long winning streak earlier this season. The difference in this game was Belinelli held Allen to 7 points before Ray fouled out trying to guard Marco who finished with 22 points. Belinelli was a rotation player before he was injured and shouldn't be considered unwanted junk

Interesting. I gotta admit, I don't watch much of Golden State since they suck as much as the Wizards and I'm in the Eastern Time Zone. I didn't realize Belinelli was emerging as a solid defender.

A quick glance at the 82games.com stats would appear to back up your assertion. The Warriors 2.9 points (per 100 possessions) better defensively with Bellinelli on the floor. He holds counterpart SG's to a respectable PER of 15.0 (though, presumably against backups). The sample size (880 minutes) is pretty small though. On/off numbers are pretty "noisy" until you get two or three years of data with lots of "on" time and "off" time.

That said, the same metrics show Azubuike to be pretty decent defensively as well. The Warriors are 3.3 points better defensively when he is on the floor. His counterpart PER numbers are a bit higher but that's to be expected since he is matched up with starters.

[yungal07]

Didn't the Spurs decline on resigning on Stephen Jackson because they hated his attitude and Pop couldn't stand him? I'm pretty sure that was the reason.

BTW I love Nate's alteration of the trade.

[CableKC]

I'm guessing that SJax or Maggette's long-term contracts would be a deterrant for the Spurs.

[Carl_Monday]

Didn't the Spurs decline on resigning on Stephen Jackson because they hated his attitude and Pop couldn't stand him? I'm pretty sure that was the reason.

BTW I love Nate's alteration of the trade.

Nah, the Hawks offered Jack a lot of money and he went there. Even when Jack had a bad rep 2+ years ago, Pop still talked highly of his character and commitment to the team. In fact, Nellie asked Pop his opinion about him prior to the trade with Indy, and ultimately okayed Jack in the deal based on his opinion.

Now, all that said, Jack was given a ridiculous extension and Maggs has a ridiculous contract, so I'm curious to hear the opinion of a Spurs fan, because GSW and Washington fans all seem to be in favor of this deal.

[killacalijatt]

I agree with dropping out Morrow and Young. And I can see why GSW would rather send Maggette instead of Jackson. But I think Maggette has less value than Jackson so the Spurs shouldn't have to throw in their first round pick.

So I guess the modified trade would be:

--Washington trades -- Darius Songaila, DeShawn Stevenson, #2
--Washington receives -- Kelenna Azubuike, Fabricio Oberto, Bruce Bowen, #7

--Warriors trade -- Kelenna Azubuike, Corey Maggette, #7
--Warriors receive -- #2(Rubio), Darius Songaila, DeShawn Stevenson

--Spurs trade -- Fabricio Oberto, Bruce Bowen
--Spurs receive -- Corey Maggette

Simple and effective. If San Antonio wants Bowen back, they can just send some cash so the Wizards can buy him out. Then resign him for the vet minimum.

This would be great for GSW.

I love this trade from the Warriors POV

We Find are point guard
Open up time for Morrow
Open up time for Randolph/Wright

[pad300]

Nates alteration might work for GS and WAS, but it doesn't work for SA.

They might do this for SJax. He's been there before, has shown a willingness to defend, and his contract isn't that bad of a value. Crawford or Magette's contracts are...

SJax they might take, depending on the financials. Also, I suspect that you are underestimating the value of Bowen and Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts in a year of expected salary cap contraction - I suspect that they wouldn't be willing to hand over the 2010 1st as well.

[ss1986v2]

Nah, the Hawks offered Jack a lot of money and he went there. Even when Jack had a bad rep 2+ years ago, Pop still talked highly of his character and commitment to the team. In fact, Nellie asked Pop his opinion about him prior to the trade with Indy, and ultimately okayed Jack in the deal based on his opinion.

Now, all that said, Jack was given a ridiculous extension and Maggs has a ridiculous contract, so I'm curious to hear the opinion of a Spurs fan, because GSW and Washington fans all seem to be in favor of this deal.

actually, the spurs reportedly offered jax 3yrs/~9mil (the same contract that they had given to bowen). jax and his agent turned it down because they were sure they could find more on the open market. but that didnt happen. he ended up signing in atl for right around 1 mil for 1yr (which ended up being really good, because he ended up getting a much better deal after that one good year in atl).

as for the trade, its good value talent wise (jax or magz), but both of those contracts probably scare the spurs off.

[turk3d]

Not a deal breaker but another consideration. Substitute Belinelli for Azubuike. That gives you the off guard shooter you seem to want (and for a little less money). If we got Rubio, then there'd be no need for Belli. since we'd be moving Maggette, it would make sense to keep Bukie (Maggette-Lite).

That would probably be a deal breaker for us. That off guard position beside Arenas also needs to be able to defend 2's well and Azubuike at 220 lbs would be a better fit defensively.

Before Belinelli was injured the Warriors were assigning him to the opponent's best offensive perimeter player. Belinelli and all-star Ray Allen went head to head in Oakland when the Celtics were on that long winning streak earlier this season. The difference in this game was Belinelli held Allen to 7 points before Ray fouled out trying to guard Marco who finished with 22 points. Belinelli was a rotation player before he was injured and shouldn't be considered unwanted junk

Interesting. I gotta admit, I don't watch much of Golden State since they suck as much as the Wizards and I'm in the Eastern Time Zone. I didn't realize Belinelli was emerging as a solid defender.

A quick glance at the 82games.com stats would appear to back up your assertion. The Warriors 2.9 points (per 100 possessions) better defensively with Bellinelli on the floor. He holds counterpart SG's to a respectable PER of 15.0 (though, presumably against backups). The sample size (880 minutes) is pretty small though. On/off numbers are pretty "noisy" until you get two or three years of data with lots of "on" time and "off" time.

That said, the same metrics show Azubuike to be pretty decent defensively as well. The Warriors are 3.3 points better defensively when he is on the floor. His counterpart PER numbers are a bit higher but that's to be expected since he is matched up with starters.

As I said earlier, the majority of Bukie's minutes this season were at 3 and 4, with very little at 2 so those numbers you are looking are probably a bit skewed and thus don't really reflect his defensive skills at the 2 position (if that's what you're interested in having him play).

The reason for this is because Nellie plays so many guys out of position. The 82game stats are probably very difficult as far as accuracy goes when trying to establish accurate metrics for a Nellie coached team. I would think that whoever compiles these would have a heckuva time figuring out who's playing what much most of the time. Heck, there were even some times that Nellie ran Bukie, Maggette and even Jackson on occasion at the Center spot. I wouldn't trust those numbers as far as Golden State is concerned if I were you. lol.

BTW, most of Bellie's minutes were in a starters role during that one stretch (when he wasn't starting he was pretty much not playing) and then of course he got hurt and didn't play at all. He didn't do too well as a backup and hence usually didn't get too many minutes.

[Blame Rasho]

The Spurs didn't want to pay Jackson after they won a Championship... and they sure aren't going to trade for him after he got an ungodly extension. He also has injury concerns.

[WarFan]

The only way I see SA making this trade is if they think Ginobli is done. Two problems with that: 1. I doubt they've come to that conclusion already and 2. They could probably do better than Maggette or Jackson by waiting until they have cap-room next summer or using Ginobli's expiring deal in a different trade.

As for the Beli/Azu/Morrow comparisons with regard to the Wizards: Beli is probably the most similar to Young, so if they want a change of pace Azu/Morrow would be the way to go.

[old rem]

Nates alteration might work for GS and WAS, but it doesn't work for SA.

They might do this for SJax. He's been there before, has shown a willingness to defend, and his contract isn't that bad of a value. Crawford or Magette's contracts are...

SJax they might take, depending on the financials. Also, I suspect that you are underestimating the value of Bowen and Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts in a year of expected salary cap contraction - I suspect that they wouldn't be willing to hand over the 2010 1st as well.

Jackson had a nice season, look it up. He plays 2 positiions,he plays D, he passes. GSW can get more than a couple of minor pieces.

Aside from Rubio GSW gets roster clutter here,gives up a guy in Azubuike who can be a starter for us 5+ yrs (especially if Maggette is gone. With Morrow + Young removed, yeah SOME Warrior fans will like it. Some are Star Worshippers. I'm more into a solid deep team.

As a slim 6-3 180 G, I don't get how Rubio and Monta works as a backcourt. Meanwhile GSW STILL is thin up front (in both senses of the word) and Songalia does not even offer more than Rob Kurz (just costs much more). With Nellie a ROOKIE PG who's not a great shooter and is VERY young......oh...yeah..that works just peachy. Ellis, Watson, Crawford and Belli will ALL be more "ready" in Nellie's mind. Rubio would get token minutes. He would be just minor plus for at least 2 yr. Meanwhile.....Curry or Lawson can be had at #7 and both WERE full time starters the last 2 yr and quite successful.

[gswhoopsman]

i think this is a pretty easy "yes" from the warriors pov

not sure the spurs do it, but i dont think it would be TOO difficult to get back expirings/short contracts for jackson or even magette

[pad300]

Nates alteration might work for GS and WAS, but it doesn't work for SA.

They might do this for SJax. He's been there before, has shown a willingness to defend, and his contract isn't that bad of a value. Crawford or Magette's contracts are...

SJax they might take, depending on the financials. Also, I suspect that you are underestimating the value of Bowen and Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts in a year of expected salary cap contraction - I suspect that they wouldn't be willing to hand over the 2010 1st as well.

Jackson had a nice season, look it up. He plays 2 positiions,he plays D, he passes. GSW can get more than a couple of minor pieces.

I know SJax had a nice season. And you are overstating it saying Bowen and Oberto are "minor" pieces - they are not pieces at all, Oberto's a salary cap figure and that's all, and Bowen likely wouldn't play for any other team in the league (Although when he's bought out this summer, either by SA or a trade partner, I expect SA to resign him...). However, partial guaranteed contracts like them are one of the only ways for a team to lower it's salary cap figure for the 09/10 season (the other being trading with a team far enough under cap to absorb contracts). If I understand correctly, if bought out with their partial guarantee (paid by Aug 25), Neither will count on the salary when lux tax is calculated at the end of the 09/10 season... Combine that with an unexpected drop in the salary cap (and associated Lux tax threshold) and a potentially tanking economy, those two partial guaranteed contracts are going to be market commodities.

[fishercob]

I actually think the Spurs would prefer Maggette over Jackson. Didn't they offer him the full MLE last summer? He gets to the line a ton, is physical, etc; he strikes me as a great role player for them.

[Big P]

I actually think the Spurs would prefer Maggette over Jackson. Didn't they offer him the full MLE last summer? He gets to the line a ton, is physical, etc; he strikes me as a great role player for them.

At the MLE we were definitly interested in Maggette...now that he is making $10 mil per...ZERO interest...that goes for SJax as well...NOT giving up cap room (2010 plan) while taking on bad contracts.