MIL/DAL/MIN

[WiscoKing13]

Bucks Trade: Luke Ridnour, Malik Allen, cash and the 10th pick
Bucks Gets: Min's pick 18

Min Trades: Miller, Madsen and pick 18
Min Gets; Stack, Ridnour, cash and 10th pick.

Dal Trades: Stack
Dal Gets: Miller

Mil does this because we cut cap to get atleast sessions back and maybe ersan.

Min does this to move up in the draft 8 spots. After stack gets cut, Minn saves about a 1.2 million.

Dal wants Miller over redd, so here you go for the price of stack.

Problems?

[deviljets7]

Ridnour isn't a bad player, but I doubt the Bucks can clear his salary for just moving down 8 spots. Obviously it was a terrible trade for the Suns, but by comparison, they had to give up 2 picks to clear Kurt Thomas' $9.5 million salary.

I think pick #18 would likely need to be swapped with 28 for MIN to do this trade.

[JES12]

I think for the trade to work finacially, Williams or George would have to be added from Dallas, but yeah, I would do it.

[WiscoKing13]

Ridnour isn't a bad player, but I doubt the Bucks can clear his salary for just moving down 8 spots. Obviously it was a terrible trade for the Suns, but by comparison, they had to give up 2 picks to clear Kurt Thomas' $9.5 million salary.

I think pick #18 would likely need to be swapped with 28 for MIN to do this trade.

But in this instances they actually cut cap and only give up an expiring.

Maybe Miller could have better value in a larger deal, but just miller won't take you from 18 inside the top 10 in any other trade

[JES12]

How would the bucks feel if we cut Minnesota out.

Trade 1:
Stackhouse + #22 + Cash for Ridnour + #10

or

Trade 2:
only Stackhouse (maybe S&T Hollins ~2 mil) for Gadzuric + #10

[deviljets7]

Ridnour isn't a bad player, but I doubt the Bucks can clear his salary for just moving down 8 spots. Obviously it was a terrible trade for the Suns, but by comparison, they had to give up 2 picks to clear Kurt Thomas' $9.5 million salary.

I think pick #18 would likely need to be swapped with 28 for MIN to do this trade.

But in this instances they actually cut cap and only give up an expiring.

Maybe Miller could have better value in a larger deal, but just miller won't take you from 18 inside the top 10 in any other trade

Let's say the TWolves cut out Milwaukee and did Miller for Stackhouse and Devan George. They would have about $7-8 million in cap space to shop around to other teams. So many teams looking to either get out of the luxury tax (MIL, NOH, PHX), create cap room to add a free agent (DET, POR, TOR) or just plain looking to slash salaries in this economy.

With that in mind and previous trades that teams were able to use with pure cap space (Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, etc.), I'd bet they can get better than moving up 8 spots in a draft where there might not be much difference between 10 and 18.

[WiscoKing13]

How would the bucks feel if we cut Minnesota out.

Trade 1:
Stackhouse + #22 + Cash for Ridnour + #10

or

Trade 2:
only Stackhouse (maybe S&T Hollins ~2 mil) for Gadzuric + #10

Trade one yes, but we have no cash so that parts not going to happen.

Trade 2 hell yes, but I don't see cuban paying gadz 13 and 14 mil to get the 10th pick(considering its going to put you in the lux)?

[JES12]

Gadzuric would prevent Dallas from investing money in Hollins as they would fill the same role IMO.

I think he would if you were willing to give up the pick. Theere has been a lot of rumbling of Rubio wanting to play with Dallas and having the #10 and #22 pick can make that at least a wet dream. But I think trying to move up to at least get Harden is where we really need to focus on.

Or staying pat and getting Flynn or Lawson. Maybe Derozan. Any of them will help us.

Edit....trade one has the cash going to you

[shrink]

Good thread here. Lots of pieces that I think fit better elsewhere, so a trade makes sense.

I just wanted to add that in the first deal, MIN would be forced to cut into its 2009 cap space. This means in addition to the $4 mil more they have in salary (until Stack was removed), MIN would have to renounce its MLE and LLE.

I think MIN would love Stack, since he could get far enough under the cap to outbid other team's MLE's. However, he had even more value in MIL, who has more urgent needs for 2009 cap space. Miller would do a lot more for DAL's chances than a pick and Ridnour. I think with so much value, a two-team trade could probably be found, but since the needs of the three teams are so distinct:

MIL - 2009 raw cap space
DAL - vet talent, don't hurt 2010
MIN - youth

That a three team deal probably maximizes each others return.

[WiscoKing13]

it would appear Dal and Mil are happy with the deal
what else does min need?

[shrink]

it would appear Dal and Mil are happy with the deal
what else does min need?

Mike Miller for Stack is not too unfair, particularly if MIN can move him to a place even more in need of 2009 cap space. However in this deal, the value Stackhouse provides .. giving MIN the ability to beat 2009 MLE offers .. is immediately erased by adding Ridnour.

#10 + Ridnour for #18 is not fair. Ridnour can play a little, but asking MIN to kick in $6.5 mil and give up the flexibility of their MLE is not.

Instead of wanting the #18 pick (which cuts back into your 2009 cap space), MIL should be looking for further compensation in 2009 raw cap space, hoping to find the money to keep Sessions and CV. I would recommend sending the pick plus expirings like Ridnour and Malik Allen to MIN, and they comp you with Mike Miller and either Craig Smith or additional 2009 cap space within the 125% + $100,000 limit. That's the way you'll have the insurance if you want to choose whether to match offers for Sessions or CV -- and perhaps scare off potential predators.

[the_bruce]

I'm fine with the deal as long as mn doesnt shell out the #18.

If MN ended up with the 6, 10, and could package 18 + 28 to jump a few spots then this would be a great draft for MN.

[WiscoKing13]

it would appear Dal and Mil are happy with the deal
what else does min need?

Mike Miller for Stack is not too unfair, particularly if MIN can move him to a place even more in need of 2009 cap space. However in this deal, the value Stackhouse provides .. giving MIN the ability to beat 2009 MLE offers .. is immediately erased by adding Ridnour.

#10 + Ridnour for #18 is not fair. Ridnour can play a little, but asking MIN to kick in $6.5 mil and give up the flexibility of their MLE is not.

Instead of wanting the #18 pick (which cuts back into your 2009 cap space), MIL should be looking for further compensation in 2009 raw cap space, hoping to find the money to keep Sessions and CV. I would recommend sending the pick plus expirings like Ridnour and Malik Allen to MIN, and they comp you with Mike Miller and either Craig Smith or additional 2009 cap space within the 125% + $100,000 limit. That's the way you'll have the insurance if you want to choose whether to match offers for Sessions or CV -- and perhaps scare off potential predators.

how does it affect your MLE since stack at 2 mil + rid's 6.5 + .7(difference between 10th and 18th pick salaries last season)=9.2 and MM salary is 9.8 next year. So you actually save money and move up in the draft

[WiscoKing13]

I'm fine with the deal as long as mn doesnt shell out the #18.

If MN ended up with the 6, 10, and could package 18 + 28 to jump a few spots then this would be a great draft for MN.

But what deal could you find that moves you into the lotto, saves you money and you only have to put 18 and MM in the deal?

[shrink]

how does it affect your MLE since stack at 2 mil + rid's 6.5 + .7(difference between 10th and 18th pick salaries last season)=9.2 and MM salary is 9.8 next year. So you actually save money and move up in the draft

In order to do the deal, we need to trade for Stack + Ridnour, we first need to trade for stackhouse at his full value.

Since the trade is not within the 125% + $100,000, we need to use our space under the salary cap.

In order to do that, we must first renounce our exceptions like the MLE, or their cap holds would get rid of our space under the cap.

[WiscoKing13]

add Madsen for Allen? than only 3 thousand k has to come out of your MLE

bucks still have 5.4 mil to make sure we get sessions back, maybe get something for CV and bring ersan over

[WiscoKing13]

so would that work out for min?

[shrink]

OK, your continued interest in this trade motivated me enough to go wading back through my previous trades.

Special thanks go to JES12 and RingtheBell .. two of their forum's best posters.

DAL GETS: Mike Miller
DAL GIVES: Stackhouse + Shawn Williams

Miller would be great in DAL. and he's completely safe as a $9.8 mil expiring. This allows DAL to compete now, reduce the damage from trading an unprotected 2010 pick, and still turn on a dime if they want to go in a new direction next season with a contract aligned with many of their other vets.

MIL GETS: Stackhouse + Craig Smith + 2010 UTA (top 15-17 prot)
MIL GIVES: Ridnour + Alexander + Malik Allen + 10th ($2.0 mil)

MIL OUT: $10.3 mil + pick, MIL IN: $4.3 .. saves $7.8 mil. If Stackhouse is waived before 8/10, he only costs $2 mil. I assume MIL would rather have the extra space than Malik Allen, MIN buys him out. This gives MIL the cap space so they can make offers to both Sessions and Villanueva, without going over the lux -- something MIL refuses to do.

MIN GETS: Ridnour + Alexander + Shawn Williams + Malik Allen + 10th
MIN GIVES: Mike Miller + Craig Smith + 2010 UTA (top 15-17 prot)

MIN downgrades their talent but gets some decent middle-round prospects as they prepare for 2010. Ridnour (expiring) could even play a little for us, and we'd buy out Malik Allen's expiring, so the 2010 impact is negligible. We could even use the cap space to offer Miller a 2010 contract if we chose

In retrospect, some of your fans may still be higher on Joe Alexander than others. I'd have to alter it slightly to maximize the TPE, but removing Joe and the future UTA pick seems appropriate.

Anyway, the goal of this deal is to maximize MIL getting expensive 2009 cap space to keep Sessions and Villanueva, and this does that easily.

[WiscoKing13]

Yes i'd rather have joe, he's a project but we have to hope he does something next year since he was drafted on potential.

Than i'm not sold on getting a draft pick for next year, this team needs young players now to start the turnover when guys like redd and RJ are off the books

[WiscoKing13]

I just edited the trade

would you consider cutting 3 hundred K into your MLE to move up 8 spots and only give up miller?